Family SUV plunges off cliff in CA - family from WA

[Alisamer]

On January 11, 2019 at 8:17 PM, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

Knitting socks would require me to learn 3 new skills: picking up stitches along an edge, turning a heel, and Kitchener stitch to seamlessly sew the toe.

Not necessarily! Toe up there's no kitchener, and with the Fish Lips Kiss Heel (pattern is $1 on Ravelry) there's no picking up stitches. I do mine 2 at a time, toe up on a long circular needle. I haven't made socks in a while though - got tendinitis in my thumb from the tight gauge.

On January 11, 2019 at 9:00 PM, Howl said:

Three years ago my stepdaughter got me a pair of....half mittens I guess  you'd call them. They are like mittens that stop past the knuckles and partway to the next joint up; ditto with the thumb.  There are insanely practical for Texas weather, where it can definitely get nippy in the winter, but not terribly so, plus you still have dexterity for your fingers.  I worry they will wear out and then I'll have to learn how to knit to create a duplicate pair. 

I recently made a pair of mittens for the first time, and it was surprisingly easy - fast too, using bulky yarn. And no purling, once I was past the cuff! I really love fingerless gloves, though, they are also perfect for cold offices.

On January 12, 2019 at 1:19 PM, Playagirl said:

I want to knit tiny 'socks' for my dining room table and chair legs to protect the hardwood floors from scratches when people move the chairs. I'm trying to get the motivation as I haven't knit in years so would need to buy needles along with the yarn which would be costly. I also know that my knitting skills suck but scratches on hardwood suck more and cost more.

Chair Socks are pretty cheap to buy, actually! And some look like kitten feet which is adorable. 

[Howl]

18 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

And some look like kitten feet which is adorable. 

Dying here from adorableness overload. I use the felt pads on all the chairs but my house has some hidden dust generating machine somewhere and the pads are constantly picking up parts of dust bunnies and hair.  With kitty feet, I could just take them all off and throw them in the washer once a month. 

[Playagirl]

4 hours ago, Howl said:

Dying here from adorableness overload. I use the felt pads on all the chairs but my house has some hidden dust generating machine somewhere and the pads are constantly picking up parts of dust bunnies and hair.  With kitty feet, I could just take them all off and throw them in the washer once a month. 

Same here. I have felt pads but they attract everything under the sun. And mine don't stay put either. They move around and the edges loosen so then I get sticky glue on the floors that I have to try to scrape off. Someone upthread mentioned children's socks which I'll look into as I could get some pretty cool socks. I've never seen the chair socks sold anywhere so I'll have to look into those too.

[SilverBeach]

The folks I know who use little socks are always putting those things back on. I don't know what's on my felt pads because they are on the bottom of things, and so far, none have come off, for over ten years now. I do love those kitty feet though, cat lover here.

Edited January 15, 2019 by SilverBeach

[Playagirl]

4 hours ago, Alisamer said:

 

Chair Socks are pretty cheap to buy, actually! And some look like kitten feet which is adorable. 

Oh my god those are seriously adorable! My house is already full of cat hair and cat footprints so these would fit my decor perfectly.

4 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

The folks I know who use little socks are always putting those things back on. I don't know what's on my felt pads because they are on the bottom of things, and so far, none have come off, for over ten years now. 

Wow, you're lucky. I've had mine for less than 2 years and they are always coming off or loosening enough for the glue to get on the floors. And enough crap gets stuck to them that each leg looks like it has a dust bunny attached to it. Maybe I should look into higher quality ones, if they exist up here.

[hoipolloi]

Mendicino County is holding a public coroner's inquest on the deaths of the Hart family. It started yesterday and may run through tomorrow. The evidence gathered in the aftermath of the crash is being presented to 14 jurors:

Quote

 

Jennifer Hart drove her family’s SUV off of a Mendocino County coastline, killing herself, her wife and their six adopted black children in March 2018. 

The jury is tasked with determining a cause of death for each of the Harts. There are four possible modes of death the jury could decide on: natural causes, accident, suicide or at the hands of another — other than by accident. 

The 14-person jury will make that decision based on witness testimony. 

As of Wednesday afternoon, five witnesses testified about the Hart family incident including responding highway patrol officers and the pathologist who conducted autopsies of the recovered bodies.  

 

 

[Howl]

Thanks for the update on the insanely tragic incident.  

[Pecansforeveryone]

Oh my goodness, has it been a whole year since this tragedy?! Not the kind of anniversary the world needs. I hope there really is spotless honesty at this inquest and some soul searching regarding adopting outside a loving family of origin. 

[hoipolloi]

43 minutes ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

 I hope there really is spotless honesty at this inquest and some soul searching regarding adopting outside a loving family of origin. 

Re: spotless honesty. The Mendocino County Sheriff's office is presenting everything, including testimony from witnesses, and all of it is being livestreamed on YouTube.

[WiseGirl]

People report. Makes me so sad. 

https://people.com/crime/sarah-hart-googled-drowning-before-family-suv-drove-off-cliff/

[Howl]

That People article raises more questions than I thought possible. 

It seems Sarah knew that Jennifer was going to kill all of them and she just didn't want to be aware of what was happening when she was dying, so she was in the process of ODing on generic Benadryl.    

Were both women family annihilators, and this was their agreement?  

This is much worse, weirder and incredibly sicker than I thought, and beyond horrible for those children. 

 

[ViolaSebastian]

28 minutes ago, Howl said:

That People article raises more questions than I thought possible. 

It seems Sarah knew that Jennifer was going to kill all of them and she just didn't want to be aware of what was happening when she was dying, so she was in the process of ODing on generic Benadryl.    

Were both women family annihilators, and this was their agreement?  

This is much worse, weirder and incredibly sicker than I thought, and beyond horrible for those children. 

 

Another possibility is that Jennifer gaslighted and manipulated Jennifer into thinking that this needed to be done. 

[Howl]

Yes, there had to be some profoundly toxic, ultimately lethal dynamics.  I can't remember which of the two women was accused of domestic violence from before they moved to Washington state. 

[Briefly]

3 hours ago, Howl said:

That People article raises more questions than I thought possible. 

It seems Sarah knew that Jennifer was going to kill all of them and she just didn't want to be aware of what was happening when she was dying, so she was in the process of ODing on generic Benadryl.    

Were both women family annihilators, and this was their agreement?  

This is much worse, weirder and incredibly sicker than I thought, and beyond horrible for those children. 

 

Like a murder/suicide or a suicide pact?  I could see that easily, but as @ViolaSebastian said, there could have been a lot of gaslighting.  I guess we will never know for sure.  But it's horrible and terribly sad.

[Howl]

I just read a CNN article noting that Jennifer had drunk at least 5 beers when she drove off the cliff, and apparently she rarely drank alcohol.  So yes, suicide pact.  

Jennifer Hart drove her six children to their deaths as her wife looked up how much they would suffer, a jury says

<snip>

Quote

As a drunk Jennifer Hart drove her six adopted children in their family SUV, her wife, Sarah, sat in the passenger seat looking up different ways to end a life.

No way those kids were unaware something horrible was about to happen. 

[nausicaa]

22 hours ago, Howl said:

Yes, there had to be some profoundly toxic, ultimately lethal dynamics.  I can't remember which of the two women was accused of domestic violence from before they moved to Washington state. 

Sarah was. But some people think (and I'm one of them) that Jennifer forced Sarah to take the fall for Jennifer's own abuse. The times the kids did escape and try to tell someone about the abuse, their complaints were always about Jennifer.

The podcast about this, Broken Harts, is really interesting and while it doesn't (and can't) answer all the questions, it does shed some light on the relationship between the two women. Jennifer was extremely controlling and also liked to control the narratives around every relationship she had (including with her siblings and people she gamed with online). By all accounts Sarah really didn't have many friends and was very reserved around people. The most interesting episode of the podcast is the one in which they interview her co-workers who talk about how Jennifer would call five, six times a day at work demanding things constantly of Sarah.

It is interesting that Sarah's google searches now show she was aware of Jennifer's plans. I still lean towards she was pushed/gaslighted into this. I'm not trying to absolve her of her share in the blame in the abuse and deaths of her children, but I don't know if "suicide pact" really describes the situation well. 

 

[Dreadcrumbs]

The google searches really get to me. And the no kill shelter search gets in my craw because those kids were about to die and Sarah was worried about making sure the dogs didn't have to go to one of those evul "kill shelters". I know pets are often considered family but come on. *groans*

[Howl]

@nausicaa, thanks for those insights.  I really have no way to process the utter insanity of this entire tragedy, but I somehow, someway want to gain some form of clarity. It makes me crazy. 

I do see what you mean about not really a suicide pact, when the controlling partner is the instigator. 

One detail: before they drove off the cliff,  they did stop somewhere, Sarah ran in and bought the generic Benadryl and then googled questions about fatal Benadryl overdose and drowning, so surely she knew what was about to take place and how it would go down.  But what we have now is all we'll ever know.  

[Glasgowghirl]

This is just horrible and I agree that it sounds like Sarah was gaslighted into going along with it. I wish Sarah had been able to get help for herself and the children but Jennifer's abuse and manipulation probably had her thinking she had no way out.

[nausicaa]

2 hours ago, Dreadcrumbs said:

The google searches really get to me. And the no kill shelter search gets in my craw because those kids were about to die and Sarah was worried about making sure the dogs didn't have to go to one of those evul "kill shelters". I know pets are often considered family but come on. *groans*

That part really angered me too.

I really don't know now how submissive a partner Sarah was in all of this. Before these revelations and after the podcast, I figured she had been drugged along with the kids and had no idea what was about to happen. I found her passiveness frustrating, but could have some sympathy. (Especially since it appears Jennifer is quite larger than her, and I wondered if she was enduring physical abuse as well.)

But now? I don't know where she falls on the culpability scale. The whole thing is just so strange. 

[Ozlsn]

On 4/7/2019 at 3:19 AM, Howl said:

No way those kids were unaware something horrible was about to happen. 

The only thing that gives me hope that they maybe were unaware is this bit:

"Jennifer was intoxicated, and Sarah and two of the children tested positive for diphenhydramine, an active ingredient in Benadryl."

Hopefully they were all drugged and unconscious.

Also this:

"What can change now, Mendocino County Sheriff-Coroner Thomas Allman told reporters, is the federal oversight of abuse. Five states were involved with the adoptions and abuse allegations of the children.

"Where are the systematic failures that possibly could have prevented this?" Allman said. "We do not have a national database for child abuse allegations."

This, Allman said, should be an "enlightening moment" for lawmakers."

I sincerely hope this leads to better sharing of information about abuse allegations between states.

[Howl]

Quote

"Where are the systematic failures that possibly could have prevented this?" Allman said. "We do not have a national database for child abuse allegations."

This, Allman said, should be an "enlightening moment" for lawmakers."

I sincerely hope this leads to better sharing of information about abuse allegations between states.

There was a Texas family who lost custody of their bazillionty kids for almost a year.  There were allegations against them where ever they lived but they just kept on the move.  There was no integrated system that kept track of them from state to state. 

Edited April 9, 2019 by Howl

[Carm_88]

The poor Hart kids knew nothing but bad times. They were beaten, starved, and used to put on a front of the normal, happy family. Those kids deserved so much more then they were given. I listened to the Broken Harts podcast and it tore at my heart to hear the neigbours talk about Devonte coming over, asking them for tortillas and peanut butter. How hard their short lives were. May they rest in peace. 

[Bethella]

17 hours ago, Howl said:

There was a Texas family who lost custody of their bazillionty kids for almost a year.  There were allegations against them where ever they lived but they just kept on the move.  There was no integrated system that kept track of them from state to state. 

The Rembis family, here’s their thread.

 

[Terrie]

This is one of the most complete collections of information I've seen. http://charleyproject.org/case/devonte-jordan-hart. According to what they put together, the abuse charges predate on set of the adoptions. I'm disgusted. and whoever approved that adoption going through should be neve work again.