BRADRICK! Divorce Part 3: Now With Remarriage?

[Marian the Librarian]

2 hours ago, Sahdnomore said:

I’m a long time lurker, but first time poster.

I’ve followed Kelly’s divorce thread since the beginning and have had discussions with my fundie parents about it. I was hopeful that her divorce would help them “see the light” about the SAHD movement, courtship, etc. It hasn’t changed their minds yet.

My parents are still close friends with people in the former-Vision Forum circles. Here’s what they’ve said (in a tone of pity/asking for prayer/saying we need to be SO careful about who our children marry) about Kelly’s recent remarriage: 

Peter was cheating on Kelly with prostitues throughout their entire marriage on a nearly-daily basis. Peter would meet with a prostitute then come home and have sex with Kelly. Kelly had no clue this was happening. When she did find out, they separated (and then divorced) almost immediately.

About her remarriage, they said that Kelly is marrying a sweet farmer from the Midwest who has never before been married. He’s in his mid-30’s. 

@Sahdnomore - let me be the first to welcome you to FJ. And congratulations on the "no more" in your user name. Thanks for joining!

[Palimpsest]

2 hours ago, Sahdnomore said:

About her remarriage, they said that Kelly is marrying a sweet farmer from the Midwest who has never before been married. He’s in his mid-30’s. 

Let's all hope they are right about him being sweet.  Kelly and the kids deserve a break.  

I'm sorry that your parents have not seen the light yet.  Their story about Peter cheating just confirms what we have heard from others. 

ETA, and what Marian said.  Welcome.  I'm glad you joined us.

[DomWackTroll]

How the heck would Peter have been able to afford prostitutes "on a near daily basis"? I'm not doubting that he did it, just wondering where the money came from. Or maybe doubting that it happened that often. 

[Palimpsest]

41 minutes ago, DomWackTroll said:

How the heck would Peter have been able to afford prostitutes "on a near daily basis"?

The Fundie definition of "prostitute" is unlikely to be the same as ours.  Perhaps no money changed hands at all, but this version makes Peter look even worse in Fundie eyes than if he had been cheating with non-professional sexually active regular folks.  

The other stories stated that Peter cheated regularly, over a long period of time, and with many people.  They also say Kelly was not aware of him cheating at all until the end of the marriage.

In other words, this is actually the first time I have seen the "prostitute" allegation.

[Marian the Librarian]

On 4/19/2018 at 10:00 AM, Columbia said:

I wonder a lot too, especially after I started following Audri Botkin's twitter account. She doesn't post much, mostly reposts, but they're almost all about spiritual abuse, and sexual abuse in the church, purity culture, race, women in the church, etc. Lots of #metoo and #churchtoo, and she seems to be a big fan of the Denhollanders. I'm very curious to know what sparked all of this. There's no doubt in my mind that Christ the King Church in the Botkins' backyard would be an excellent place for both spiritual and sexual abuse to run rampant. Or is this simply disillusionment with DPIATR and VF slowly making its way out? I couldn't ever imagine the Botkinettes or their parents becoming big champions for those affected by spiritual abuse. They'd have to do a lot of repenting first.

This is *really* interesting to me. Audri Botkin's accounts (FB, Twitter, Instagram) are all locked down tight. Wish she'd come here to discuss, but I realize the chances of that are slim to none. 

[VVV]

3 minutes ago, Marian the Librarian said:

This is *really* interesting to me. Audri Botkin's accounts (FB, Twitter, Instagram) are all locked down tight. Wish she'd come here to discuss, but I realize the chances of that are slim to none. 

I agree.

Audri Botkin made Texas All-State on cello as a high school student...for the non-Texans and non-musicians here, making All-State in Texas is hugely competitive and a significant accomplishment for any young musician. I've had more than a few students of my own make TX All-State and it is unreal to me just how hard they had to work to get there.  This is not Duggar-level, "Jana is a concert pianist" type nonsense. This means she is (a) highly intelligent, (b) a very hard worker, (c) legitimately playing at a level equivalent to a second- or third-tier music school (the kids playing at the first-tier level are making the top orchestra) and (c) willing to put herself through several successive extremely stressful audition situations.

I would love to know what she's thinking these days.

[hoipolloi]

@Sahdnomore - Welcome! Also glad about the "no more" part of your name but sorry your parents don't see the toxicity of their beliefs and how they led to Kelly's situation. Let's hope that the sweet farmer is indeed a decent man who loves Kelly & her children, and will treat them well.

Re: Audri Botkin. I can only see her Twitter feed (not following her) but the fact that she's retweeting Boz Tchividjian is quite interesting.

ETA: @Sahdnomore -- just reread your comment and realized that your parents may NOT actually still believe that stuff but are just good friends with those who do. My apologies for misreading if that's so.

 

[punkiepie]

2 hours ago, DomWackTroll said:

How the heck would Peter have been able to afford prostitutes "on a near daily basis"? I'm not doubting that he did it, just wondering where the money came from. Or maybe doubting that it happened that often. 

To most fundies, there is no nuanced distinguishing between the various words that can be used to describe a woman of "questionable morals." In that world, slut, whore, hussy, prostitute, harlot, Jezebel, hooker, tramp, trollop, etc., they are all used interchangeably, as if they mean the some thing.   And it really doesn't matter how questionable the morals of said woman are; wearing shapely pants while openly flirting with a man, will get you called the same thing as if you got pregnant out of wedlock, didn't marry the father, and then kept the baby instead of giving it up to some childless fundie couple who would raise them in the fear and admonition of the lord.  I use that as an example, because I was both of those girls at difference points; once, in high school, I wore a  long, modest, red dress to church and a deacon pulled me aside to tell me I was wearing the color of harlots and only a harlot would wear a red dress and since I was wearing red, I must be a harlot.  I wanted to tell him to get a thesaurus.  And then, some years later, in my early to mid-twenties, I got pregnant, wasn't married, didn't want to marry the father, and wanted to raise my baby myself.  They would say it was my brazenness, my lack of shame, my refusal to hide my growing belly which reminded everyone of the sin I committed each time they saw me; this was why I was a used-up, loose slut who couldn't keep her legs shut.  So really, in this case, "prostitute" could mean a woman Peter worked with, maybe they frequently had lunches together and flirted a lot, and she made Petey have impure and salacious thoughts, all the while, Kelly was at home raising their offspring and unwise to what really was making Peter so lusty for her after his long hard day at work (This is probably not the case, but for arguments sake). Or it could mean a person he actually paid money to for the purpose of having sexual relations with him. Or it could be something in the middle of that.  It doesn't matter; once you are deemed to be a woman of questionable morals, you are all of the pejorative words and phrases, and they are all interchangeable and fair game, because you deserve it.  

 

 

[starfish]

46 minutes ago, punkiepie said:

To most fundies, there is no nuanced distinguishing between the various words that can be used to describe a woman of "questionable morals." In that world, slut, whore, hussy, prostitute, harlot, Jezebel, hooker, tramp, trollop, etc., they are all used interchangeably, as if they mean the some thing.   And it really doesn't matter how questionable the morals of said woman are; wearing shapely pants while openly flirting with a man, will get you called the same thing as if you got pregnant out of wedlock, didn't marry the father, and then kept the baby instead of giving it up to some childless fundie couple who would raise them in the fear and admonition of the lord.  I use that as an example, because I was both of those girls at difference points; once, in high school, I wore a  long, modest, red dress to church and a deacon pulled me aside to tell me I was wearing the color of harlots and only a harlot would wear a red dress and since I was wearing red, I must be a harlot.  I wanted to tell him to get a thesaurus.  And then, some years later, in my early to mid-twenties, I got pregnant, wasn't married, didn't want to marry the father, and wanted to raise my baby myself.  They would say it was my brazenness, my lack of shame, my refusal to hide my growing belly which reminded everyone of the sin I committed each time they saw me; this was why I was a used-up, loose slut who couldn't keep her legs shut.  So really, in this case, "prostitute" could mean a woman Peter worked with, maybe they frequently had lunches together and flirted a lot, and she made Petey have impure and salacious thoughts, all the while, Kelly was at home raising their offspring and unwise to what really was making Peter so lusty for her after his long hard day at work (This is probably not the case, but for arguments sake). Or it could mean a person he actually paid money to for the purpose of having sexual relations with him. Or it could be something in the middle of that.  It doesn't matter; once you are deemed to be a woman of questionable morals, you are all of the pejorative words and phrases, and they are all interchangeable and fair game, because you deserve it.  

 

 

I get what you're saying but it's difficult for me to imagine who would have sex with Bradrick! without a large sum of money exchanging hands. Except for poor Kelly, who was obviously tricked into marrying that fool.  The prostitute angle would also explain where the money for the water heater went. 

[DomWackTroll]

3 minutes ago, starfish said:

The prostitute angle would also explain where the money for the water heater went. 

That's what I was thinking. I mean, there had to have been some kind of money issue if Kelly was heating water on a gas stove so that she could bathe her children, and Scott wasn't lifting a finger to help! There's more to that than we know. 

The word "prostitute" just seems really specific, but maybe I'm wrong... 

[Rachel333]

Wasn't he really upset about Doug's misdeeds? I mean, he was right to be upset about Doug but I just wonder what it's like to be that much of a hypocrite.

[DomWackTroll]

12 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

Wasn't he really upset about Doug's misdeeds? I mean, he was right to be upset about Doug but I just wonder what it's like to be that much of a hypocrite.

Yes, it's hypocritical, but I can see how someone who was that brainwashed for his entire life, after seeing his mentor/demigod revealed as a complete fraud, would just be like, "Screw it! Nothing means anything anymore, and from now on I'm doing whatever the hell I want." 

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, DomWackTroll said:

Yes, it's hypocritical, but I can see how someone who was that brainwashed for his entire life, after seeing his mentor/demigod revealed as a complete fraud, would just be like, "Screw it! Nothing means anything anymore, and from now on I'm doing whatever the hell I want." 

I had wondered if the Fall of the Tool was a tipping point for Peter as well though various rumors besides the comments from our new member indicate that he'd been two-timing Kelly for a while.

Maybe the confrontation with DPIART accelerated Peter's extra-marital activities.

[punkiepie]

19 minutes ago, DomWackTroll said:

Yes, it's hypocritical, but I can see how someone who was that brainwashed for his entire life, after seeing his mentor/demigod revealed as a complete fraud, would just be like, "Screw it! Nothing means anything anymore, and from now on I'm doing whatever the hell I want." 

I have a hard time imagining him seeking out prostitutes on a regular basis while he was still deep into VF and working for his FIL at the NCFIC.  Mostly because he genuinely seemed so bereft and lost after finding out his beloved mentor was just a con artist.  So much so that he publicly put it out there for all to read and then quit his “job,” picked up his quiver, moved across the country, and started working a real job in the secular world. Now I can totally see how, in his state of disillusionment about everything in his life being built on a lie, that he started doing things he never thought about doing before because they were “bad.” And when he liked doing those things, he started doing more and more, until ultimately, he became more like the thing he hated,  DPIAT/R, than he ever had before.  So actual prostitutes in Washington, post VF fall, yeah, I can see that happening. But back in NC before all the shit went down, I have a harder time with that one. Not that it couldn’t have happened or isn’t true, it totally could be and I could be way off base; but, it seems like it would have been a fairly difficult thing to pull off on a regular basis when constantly surrounded by your church and family, who were always all up in your business. 

[Palimpsest]

 

2 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

Wasn't he really upset about Doug's misdeeds? I mean, he was right to be upset about Doug but I just wonder what it's like to be that much of a hypocrite.

I honestly think he was really upset.  His FB post was utterly heartbroken.  And seeing Dougie fall from grace (let alone Scott's covering for Dougie, and he did) possibly started off his slide into the dark side.

That is my theory, but it is only a theory.

2 hours ago, DomWackTroll said:

That's what I was thinking. I mean, there had to have been some kind of money issue if Kelly was heating water on a gas stove so that she could bathe her children, and Scott wasn't lifting a finger to help! There's more to that than we know. 

The word "prostitute" just seems really specific, but maybe I'm wrong... 

I'm sure there were money issues all along, but that was prior to the Fall of the Tool, IIRC. 

Bradrick! the enterprise was crappola, I forget what other small businesses Peter tried, but he mostly worked for Scottie after he married.  I can't imagine he was earning much. Scott probably thought it was fine for Kelly to work like a dog for her Headship.

I am not saying that the "prostitute" allegation is wrong.  I think @Sahdnomore is accurately reporting what she heard from her parents.

It is just that some of the versions of this story are slightly different from others.  I look for the consistencies among them.  Consistencies are:  he cheated a lot (over a long time but no starting date to my knowledge) and with many people. 

And possibly with men (Note, @Sahdnomore didn't mention that twist but I heard it from 2 other sources and thought hard before reporting it.)

Some of the versions are even wilder than that he had dealings with sex workers.  

Bradick is evil incarnate in Fundieland.  Rufus knows.

 

[Briefly]

12 hours ago, Sahdnomore said:

I’m a long time lurker, but first time poster.

I’ve followed Kelly’s divorce thread since the beginning and have had discussions with my fundie parents about it. I was hopeful that her divorce would help them “see the light” about the SAHD movement, courtship, etc. It hasn’t changed their minds yet.

My parents are still close friends with people in the former-Vision Forum circles. Here’s what they’ve said (in a tone of pity/asking for prayer/saying we need to be SO careful about who our children marry) about Kelly’s recent remarriage: 

Peter was cheating on Kelly with prostitues throughout their entire marriage on a nearly-daily basis. Peter would meet with a prostitute then come home and have sex with Kelly. Kelly had no clue this was happening. When she did find out, they separated (and then divorced) almost immediately.

About her remarriage, they said that Kelly is marrying a sweet farmer from the Midwest who has never before been married. He’s in his mid-30’s. 

If that is true about Peter and prostitutes, I sure hope that Kelly was smart enough to get tested for std!

[Palimpsest]

5 minutes ago, Briefly said:

If that is true about Peter and prostitutes, I sure hope that Kelly was smart enough to get tested for std!

It is not just sex workers who can pass on STDs.  If it is true (or even suspected) that your partner is having illicit sex, especially unprotected sex, with anyone else then getting tested for STDs is simple common sense.   

 

[Cleopatra7]

6 hours ago, starfish said:

I get what you're saying but it's difficult for me to imagine who would have sex with Bradrick! without a large sum of money exchanging hands. Except for poor Kelly, who was obviously tricked into marrying that fool.  The prostitute angle would also explain where the money for the water heater went. 

I imagine that the “streetwalker” variety of sex worker tend to be fairly cheap, enough so that visiting one could be a daily habit. For those who can’t square Bradrick’s fundie royalty image with him visiting prostitutes daily, it’s work remembering that too long ago it was considered acceptable for a “respectable man” to visit prostitutes to do the kind of “perverse” sex acts that he wouldn’t deign to perform with his “respectable wife” at home. Prostitution was also considered a necessary evil so lusty young men wouldn’t defile “respectable” virgins and matrons. This is why medieval cities had licensed prostitutes be prostitute guilds (the prostitute guild of 13th century’s Paris gem tried to sponsor a window in Notre Dame cathedral, but the bishop turned down their donation). The idea that a “respectable man,” Christian or otherwise, should never visit prostitutes or have mistresses is a pretty recent idea. Although Christianity theoretically states that both sexes should be chaste in their sexual behavior, a double standard has always been the practice.

[MamaJunebug]

8 hours ago, starfish said:

I get what you're saying but it's difficult for me to imagine who would have sex with Bradrick! without a large sum of money exchanging hands. Except for poor Kelly, who was obviously tricked into marrying that fool.  The prostitute angle would also explain where the money for the water heater went. 

This....makes.....so.Much. Sense.....

[Mrs. Bean]

On 4/20/2018 at 4:54 AM, Sahdnomore said:

I’m a long time lurker, but first time poster.

I’ve followed Kelly’s divorce thread since the beginning and have had discussions with my fundie parents about it. I was hopeful that her divorce would help them “see the light” about the SAHD movement, courtship, etc. It hasn’t changed their minds yet.

My parents are still close friends with people in the former-Vision Forum circles. Here’s what they’ve said (in a tone of pity/asking for prayer/saying we need to be SO careful about who our children marry) about Kelly’s recent remarriage: 

Peter was cheating on Kelly with prostitues throughout their entire marriage on a nearly-daily basis. Peter would meet with a prostitute then come home and have sex with Kelly. Kelly had no clue this was happening. When she did find out, they separated (and then divorced) almost immediately.

About her remarriage, they said that Kelly is marrying a sweet farmer from the Midwest who has never before been married. He’s in his mid-30’s. 

If this is true about Peter then he is a sociopath.

[Briefly]

23 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

It is not just sex workers who can pass on STDs.  If it is true (or even suspected) that your partner is having illicit sex, especially unprotected sex, with anyone else then getting tested for STDs is simple common sense.   

 

Yes, it does make common sense.  But in Kelly's world, common sense is not common.

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, Briefly said:

Yes, it does make common sense.  But in Kelly's world, common sense is not common.

Reminds me of a long ago EPS case.  

Husband in his 80s.  Bedridden from repeated stokes but an unpleasant, swearing, abusive old fart.  Well, the cussing and abusiveness *might* have been because of the strokes.  Wife, also in her 80s.  Excellent care-giver.  Subservient, sweet, catered to his every whim, even though he cussed her out regularly.  She fought hard to keep him out of an NF.

Until she suddenly started beating the shit out of him and refusing him personal care.

Reporter (nurse) was really shocked.  Wife had been so devoted.

Turns out that wife had been watching TV (probably Oprah, it's always Oprah) and discovered that it is 99.999% impossible for women to contract syphilis or gonorrhea from sitting down on public toilet seats.

The pair had been treated several times for the above STDs.  Husband had always told wife it was her fault that he was infected, emotionally abused her - accusing her of affairs (and sitting down on public toilet seats), - and had beaten the daylights out of her regularly.  Adult children confirmed the beating scenario.

Resolution: husband was placed in NF.  Wife didn't visit.  Children did sometimes, bless them, and also cared well for wife. He died, rather unlamented.  Wife sent appreciative Christmas cards to EPS case worker every year until she died too.

This woman would be well over 100 today if she were still alive.  Kelly's world is similarly restricted, but I hope the hell these Fundie women go and get themselves tested and do not blame themselves!

 

 

[Destiny]

On 4/18/2018 at 6:36 PM, Curious said:

How in the world did they police that?  Holy too much time on your hands, Batman.  I can imagine the revolt (rightly) that helpmeets would have if I demanded that kind of micromanagement.  

One more way we will never be like TWOP

Ain't nobody got time for being Howard friends. Ain't nobody got time for that. 

[formergothardite]

@Palimpsest I worked with the lady who found out she and her husband both had an STD. He convinced her that they both got it from tanning beds because they tanned nude. On some level she had to have know this wasn't true because she got all in a huff when people said she should ask her dr if that was true because it didn't sound true. She became very vocal about how people needed to make sure they cleaned the tanning beds super well before getting in them because tanning beds could give you and STD. 

As for TWOP, I was terrified to post there. There were just so many, many rules to keep up with. 

[Destiny]

On 4/19/2018 at 5:21 AM, Cleopatra7 said:

It’s been awhile but I think the “no boards on boards” rule meant that you weren’t supposed to talk about other sites/message boards/online groups on TWoP. The only acceptable topic for discussion was what was shown on the TV itself. Consequently, the Duggar threads and the Teen Mom threads (among others) were always getting shut down, because these shows raise a host of questions of various societal topics that the shows themselves are only going to address in a superficial manner (eg you couldn’t talk about Gothard on TWoP because he never physically appeared on 19KAC, even though he was the grey eminence lurking behind the scenes).

That's my memory as well. You could talk about the show, but not how their beliefs affected the show and so on. I rarely posted on that thread ... Maybe once, if at all, but I read the 19KAC thread religiously and was one of the first to bookmark FJ when it was created. I find the societal ramifications of these beliefs fascinating (and terrifying). I got the (probably correct) impression that Howard HATED us. LOL.

On 4/19/2018 at 5:24 AM, formergothardite said:

VF provided so many laughs. I loved that they constantly misspelled things and would fix it after being mentioned here. We were their editors. 

Poll bombing the VF ... I think it was about gay marriage? poll years ago is still one of my favourite FJ memories, along with the HILARIOUS reaction to same from VF. PERSECUTION! EVIL FEMINISTS! EBIL GHEY AGENDA!

Edit: didn't we hack them too? I forget now.