Joy and Austin (and Gideon) 22: When Nothing Much Happens

[nickelodeon]

That article is bullshit and gross.

However, the fact that the Forsyth family is organizing a speaking event for Debi and Michael "Hit Your Kids Until They Die" Pearl lets us know that they're not just "harmless country folk," so I'm not going to go overboard praising Joy's in-laws and husband just yet.

[Rachel333]

On 4/4/2018 at 4:22 PM, candygirl200413 said:

Also how does she also have a bible verse so readily available? Especially one that like really gets her point (Don't let anyone look down on you because you're young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith and in purity).

That's a verse that you hear over and over again in church when you're young! I can still recite it from memory.

[TeaELSee]

On 4/4/2018 at 7:12 PM, Joyfully_Unavailable said:

I feel sorry for any of the fundie women who suffer from postpartum depression. I did, and even with amazing support I felt so inadequate and had so many days I could barely get up. I can’t imagine the pressure of having to smile for pictures and help out with their husband’s projects is as easy as it looks for all of them.

Andrea Yates killing her children was a result of undertreated /ignored postpartum depression  it is a heartbreaking story.

eta* She kept getting sicker after each birth and escalated to postpartum psychosis.

[Glasgowghirl]

24 minutes ago, TeaELSee said:

Andrea Yates killing her children was a result of undertreated /ignored postpartum depression  it is a heartbreaking story.

eta* She kept getting sicker after each birth and escalated to postpartum psychosis.

I think her husband was just as responsible for the killings, he ignored the doctors advice not leave her alone with the children and encouraged her to have more kids against medical advice. Rusty moved on pretty quickly too, I think he cared about having more kids than Andrea and the kids he lost.

[Pecansforeveryone]

There are truly toxic and dangerous things promoted by the Forsyths such as the aforementioned booking of the Pearls. Lying about the Forsyths is wrong on so many levels not least of which because it allows them to cry to their leg humpers about the "mean heathens" picking on them.  It's hard enough to get Duggar fans to open their eyes to reality without the "world" muddying the waters. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

3 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

I think her husband was just as responsible for the killings, he ignored the doctors advice not leave her alone with the children and encouraged her to have more kids against medical advice. Rusty moved on pretty quickly too, I think he cared about having more kids than Andrea and the kids he lost.

I think so too, and that asshole divorced Andrea and went on to have many many more kids. 

[TeaELSee]

3 hours ago, Glasgowghirl said:

I think her husband was just as responsible for the killings, he ignored the doctors advice not leave her alone with the children and encouraged her to have more kids against medical advice. Rusty moved on pretty quickly too, I think he cared about having more kids than Andrea and the kids he lost.

I agree, that was my point. Their religion and beliefs caused this.

If you are interested read the book, “Are You There Alone?” by Suzanne O’Malley.  It is a really good account of what happened.

[RainbowSky]

3 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I think so too, and that asshole divorced Andrea and went on to have many many more kids. 

A few years ago I'd swear they said they had one.  Are the rest very small?

[Jellybean]

The Andrea Yates Wikipedia page has a section on her divorce from Rusty. It says that he married Laura Arnold a year after his divorce from Andrea. They had one son and she filed for divorce in 2015. I’ll see if I can find other sources.

ETA: The Wikipedia source is an article in People magazine.

[Flossie]

13 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

...that asshole divorced Andrea and went on to have many many more kids. 

The facts:  
*  June 20, 2001 Andrea Yates kills her five children
*  Rusty divorced Andrea in 2004
*  Rusty remarried 2006
*  March 20, 2008, Rusty and his second wife Laura had a son they named Mark.  
*  As of 2015, Rusty gave an interview where he said he and his second wife only had one child, Mark, who was seven at the time of the interview.

Now, I think Rusty is an asshole.  I've followed their story over the years and Rusty has never passed the smell test.  The crap he put his family through in the years before the murders is indefensible.  In my opinion, he should have been charged as an accessory to the murders because he knew full well his wife was unstable and he did the bare minimum to help.

His behavior after the murders is no better.  He flirted with the idea of suing the various medical professionals who treated Andrea in the years before the murders, and probably gave up the idea when he realized his own part in what happened would prevent him from winning.  He has said that he visits Andrea regularly and has shown he pictures of his new son, but accounts from people who work in the facility that Andrea is in differ.  Their accounts say that Andrea didn't know she was divorced until a couple of years after, and most of the time still thinks her kids are alive and waiting for her to come home.  Over the years she's gotten to the point where she was able to remember what she did and immediately retreated into a protective state where she thinks she's just staying at the hospital for a short time before going back to her husband and children.

Meanwhile, Rusty has given interviews where he accepts no blame for what happened, choosing to focus on how he has managed to build a good life after the horrible events of 2001.  He's quite happy to let everyone know that he now blames Andreas illness for what happened, and she's fine with him moving on, and he's learned to only think of how happy his kids were before their mother killed them.  He also wants everyone to know that he wasn't home at the time, he was at work providing for the family and he was as shocked and as horrified as everyone else when he returned home to find his children dead.  (He likes to make it seem like he put in a full day at work and wandered through the door with no idea anything was amiss, when he actually got a call from Andrea telling him what she was going to do and he called the police before rushing home.  But the kids were dead when the police got there, and Rusty knew before he ever walked in the door what had happened.  A lot of somber police shooing curious neighbors off, ambulances and fire trucks in front of the house, and looks of pity when he identified himself pretty much made it obvious.

There's a book out, probably more than one, but the one I read didn't paint Rusty in a good light.  I have to see if I can remember the book I read.  The author seemed to do her homework and provide a lot of documentation.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

I was wrong, I thought I read several years ago that he had 3 or 4 more kids with wife #2, but I can only find where they have the 1.  How happy am I to hear that his 2nd wife left his sorry ass. I made the mistake of reading up on him after all this time.  What a compete asshole, I knew Andrea was ill but I had no idea just HOW ill she was, she was schizophrenic and her PARENTS also hold some of the blame, they were just fine with her being discharged and left alone with those kids.  Then to find they were living a bus while he made $80k a year.  I think it would do ALL the duggerigings a world of good to watch a documentary on the consequences of untreated mental illness and the effects of endless pregnancies. 

This all brings back bad memories, of a friend with fundylite parents who allowed their suicidal daughter to be left alone after losing custody of hr kids.  She of course killed herself, 29 years old and her idiot family just allowed her to be alone. Her ex is a wonderful he just wanted hr to get help but had to think of the girls and she also resisted help because of her upbringing and mental illness being weakness in God. 

[Jana814]

I thought Rusty Yates had more than 1 child with his second wife also. Glad the woman left him. 

[GreatScott]

I’ve never heard of Andrea and now I’m deep in that rabbit hole and I can’t get out. Wow what an awful story of patriarchy and a woman who needed help being let down. Wow. I want to read that book now. Gonna seen if my library has it...

[Glasgowghirl]

6 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I was wrong, I thought I read several years ago that he had 3 or 4 more kids with wife #2, but I can only find where they have the 1.  How happy am I to hear that his 2nd wife left his sorry ass. I made the mistake of reading up on him after all this time.  What a compete asshole, I knew Andrea was ill but I had no idea just HOW ill she was, she was schizophrenic and her PARENTS also hold some of the blame, they were just fine with her being discharged and left alone with those kids.  Then to find they were living a bus while he made $80k a year.  I think it would do ALL the duggerigings a world of good to watch a documentary on the consequences of untreated mental illness and the effects of endless pregnancies. 

I also blame her parents partially too. The should never have listened to Rusty when he said to them not to come over for him leaving for work. The chances are if they did object to her being discharged and their living conditions, they would have been ignored but they could have at fought more to make sure her and the kids were ok. I'm sure they feel terrible for it now. 

Rusty has never taken any responsibility for his part in the tragedy and I'm glad his second wife left him and he only had one child. I don't doubt he loved his kids but he thought he knew better than the medical professionals and his kids paid the price. 

[Jana814]

All Rusty Yates cared about was having more kids. He apprently was rude to the neighbors, and hard to work with and thought he was better then everyone else. 

[TeaELSee]

2 hours ago, GreatScott said:

I’ve never heard of Andrea and now I’m deep in that rabbit hole and I can’t get out. Wow what an awful story of patriarchy and a woman who needed help being let down. Wow. I want to read that book now. Gonna seen if my library has it...

The book is really good, it’s hard to read. They come frustratingly close to doing the right thing a few times.

She was hospitalized in a catatonic state more than once. It’s a deep dark rabbit hole.

[Lurky]

It's funny, but I'm really happy to see Joy sharing photos of herself without makeup.  For any other mothers of young babies, I wouldn't think twice about this, but in the context of Gothardism, and the insistence on girls and women being fully made-up, with curled hair and looking perfect at all times, it feels surprising.  I know it means nothing in the wider scheme of things, but still, I'm glad she feels confident enough to show herself like this.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

4 hours ago, Lurky said:

It's funny, but I'm really happy to see Joy sharing photos of herself without makeup.  For any other mothers of young babies, I wouldn't think twice about this, but in the context of Gothardism, and the insistence on girls and women being fully made-up, with curled hair and looking perfect at all times, it feels surprising.  I know it means nothing in the wider scheme of things, but still, I'm glad she feels confident enough to show herself like this.

It also says a lot about Austin not caring about pretty packaged wife. Because we know if that is what he wanted that is what she would have to do. 

[PVMom]

No you are wrong about Rusty Yates.

First he took Andrea to the doctor multiple times for her PPD.   It was the doctors that refused to prescribe.   Rusty is a regular husband and engineer AND this was long before everyone and everyone's husband knew everything about PPD!    He wasn't an asshole, he was a caring husband that sought medical attention for his wife.

THEN, he didn't leave his wife alone.    He had his OWN mother come and stay weeks with them.  He paid for his mother to have a hotel room down the street and spend the days with Andrea and the kids at their house.   Rusty was an engineer working for NASA, they had 5 kids.   He had to work, probably like your dh if you had 5 kids!   His own mother stayed and cared for the kids during the day, then Rusty came home and his mother left for her hotel.   On the fateful day, he went to work and his mother had an appointment or something I can't remember why she wasn't there.   Would your dh have his mother come and then pay for her to stay in a hotel to help you care for children post partum?    Rusty is not an ass.

Then it wasn't Rusty at all that forced his wife to have all these kids.  That was all Andrea!   She was a nurse, she insisted on homeschooling.   She was ridiculously crunchy and she was the one insisting on having more and more kids.   Is that what you mean by Rusty is a jerk?   He's not.

Then after she murdered the kids, Rusty forgave her.   He visited her in prison all the time!    It was Andrea that wanted him to get remarried.   Even after he was remarried he still came to visit her in prison.   Is that what you mean by Rusty is an asshole?    Even after he was married, he continued to advocate for Andrea to get mental health care.    Over and over Andrea wished him and his wife well.    They had her blessing to marry.

Andrea is a victim of her doctors who wouldn't take her illness seriously.   Rusty is a victim.    He's done a lot better by Andrea than most dh's would do given the same circumstances.   There are all sorts of accurate documentaries out about this.   

[SapphireSlytherin]

@PVMom - are you Rusty's mom or something? Damn.

[Illmarryyoujana]

9 hours ago, PVMom said:

No you are wrong about Rusty Yates.

First he took Andrea to the doctor multiple times for her PPD.   It was the doctors that refused to prescribe.   Rusty is a regular husband and engineer AND this was long before everyone and everyone's husband knew everything about PPD!    He wasn't an asshole, he was a caring husband that sought medical attention for his wife.

THEN, he didn't leave his wife alone.    He had his OWN mother come and stay weeks with them.  He paid for his mother to have a hotel room down the street and spend the days with Andrea and the kids at their house.   Rusty was an engineer working for NASA, they had 5 kids.   He had to work, probably like your dh if you had 5 kids!   His own mother stayed and cared for the kids during the day, then Rusty came home and his mother left for her hotel.   On the fateful day, he went to work and his mother had an appointment or something I can't remember why she wasn't there.   Would your dh have his mother come and then pay for her to stay in a hotel to help you care for children post partum?    Rusty is not an ass.

Then it wasn't Rusty at all that forced his wife to have all these kids.  That was all Andrea!   She was a nurse, she insisted on homeschooling.   She was ridiculously crunchy and she was the one insisting on having more and more kids.   Is that what you mean by Rusty is a jerk?   He's not.

Then after she murdered the kids, Rusty forgave her.   He visited her in prison all the time!    It was Andrea that wanted him to get remarried.   Even after he was remarried he still came to visit her in prison.   Is that what you mean by Rusty is an asshole?    Even after he was married, he continued to advocate for Andrea to get mental health care.    Over and over Andrea wished him and his wife well.    They had her blessing to marry.

Andrea is a victim of her doctors who wouldn't take her illness seriously.   Rusty is a victim.    He's done a lot better by Andrea than most dh's would do given the same circumstances.   There are all sorts of accurate documentaries out about this.   

Rusty Yates pushed his family and wife into fundamentalism. He did indeed push for more kids after doctors told him that wasn’t healthy for Andrea. Maybe if you only watch 20/20 I can see why you think all that you do, but it’s just not reality. They were quiverfull for heavens sake. 

[metheglyn]

On 4/17/2018 at 3:53 PM, PVMom said:

No you are wrong about Rusty Yates.

First he took Andrea to the doctor multiple times for her PPD.   It was the doctors that refused to prescribe.   Rusty is a regular husband and engineer AND this was long before everyone and everyone's husband knew everything about PPD!    He wasn't an asshole, he was a caring husband that sought medical attention for his wife.

THEN, he didn't leave his wife alone.    He had his OWN mother come and stay weeks with them.  He paid for his mother to have a hotel room down the street and spend the days with Andrea and the kids at their house.   Rusty was an engineer working for NASA, they had 5 kids.   He had to work, probably like your dh if you had 5 kids!   His own mother stayed and cared for the kids during the day, then Rusty came home and his mother left for her hotel.   On the fateful day, he went to work and his mother had an appointment or something I can't remember why she wasn't there.   Would your dh have his mother come and then pay for her to stay in a hotel to help you care for children post partum?    Rusty is not an ass.

Then it wasn't Rusty at all that forced his wife to have all these kids.  That was all Andrea!   She was a nurse, she insisted on homeschooling.   She was ridiculously crunchy and she was the one insisting on having more and more kids.   Is that what you mean by Rusty is a jerk?   He's not.

Then after she murdered the kids, Rusty forgave her.   He visited her in prison all the time!    It was Andrea that wanted him to get remarried.   Even after he was remarried he still came to visit her in prison.   Is that what you mean by Rusty is an asshole?    Even after he was married, he continued to advocate for Andrea to get mental health care.    Over and over Andrea wished him and his wife well.    They had her blessing to marry.

Andrea is a victim of her doctors who wouldn't take her illness seriously.   Rusty is a victim.    He's done a lot better by Andrea than most dh's would do given the same circumstances.   There are all sorts of accurate documentaries out about this.   

This almost reads as a sarcastic devil's advocate argument (that is, someone "explaining" Rusty's so-called side), except for the last paragraph. Then it almost sounds serious. (I sincerely hope it's not.)

Because, I mean, Rusty is by no means squeaky clean in this situation. He's definitely an accessory to, if not cause of, Andrea's eventual utter breakdown and psychosis. And his behavior after the fact is hardly admirable either.

[justoneoftwo]

12 hours ago, metheglyn said:

This almost reads as a sarcastic devil's advocate argument (that is, someone "explaining" Rusty's so-called side), except for the last paragraph. Then it almost sounds serious. (I sincerely hope it's not.)

Because, I mean, Rusty is by no means squeaky clean in this situation. He's definitely an accessory to, if not cause of, Andrea's eventual utter breakdown and psychosis. And his behavior after the fact is hardly admirable either.

What was his behavior after?  Do we know his mother was helping her watch the kids?  If so what happened that day?  Does anyone have sources on this story?

[Mama Mia]

On 4/17/2018 at 1:53 PM, PVMom said:

No you are wrong about Rusty Yates.

 

THEN, he didn't leave his wife alone.    He had his OWN mother come and stay weeks with them.  He paid for his mother to have a hotel room down the street and spend the days with Andrea and the kids at their house.   Rusty was an engineer working for NASA, they had 5 kids.   He had to work, probably like your dh if you had 5 kids!   His own mother stayed and cared for the kids during the day, then Rusty came home and his mother left for her hotel.   On the fateful day, he went to work and his mother had an appointment or something I can't remember why she wasn't there.   Would your dh have his mother come and then pay for her to stay in a hotel to help you care for children post partum?    Rusty is not an ass.

Then it wasn't Rusty at all that forced his wife to have all these kids.  That was all Andrea!   She was a nurse, she insisted on homeschooling.   She was ridiculously crunchy and she was the one insisting on having more and more kids.   Is that what you mean by Rusty is a jerk?   He's not.

 

Andrea is a victim of her doctors who wouldn't take her illness seriously.   Rusty is a victim.    He's done a lot better by Andrea than most dh's would do given the same circumstances.   There are all sorts of accurate documentaries out about this.   

That’s an interesting take. It sounds, to me, like those children were failed by many, many sources. Tragic. 

[SassyPants]

On 4/17/2018 at 1:53 PM, PVMom said:

No you are wrong about Rusty Yates.

First he took Andrea to the doctor multiple times for her PPD.   It was the doctors that refused to prescribe.   Rusty is a regular husband and engineer AND this was long before everyone and everyone's husband knew everything about PPD!    He wasn't an asshole, he was a caring husband that sought medical attention for his wife.

THEN, he didn't leave his wife alone.    He had his OWN mother come and stay weeks with them.  He paid for his mother to have a hotel room down the street and spend the days with Andrea and the kids at their house.   Rusty was an engineer working for NASA, they had 5 kids.   He had to work, probably like your dh if you had 5 kids!   His own mother stayed and cared for the kids during the day, then Rusty came home and his mother left for her hotel.   On the fateful day, he went to work and his mother had an appointment or something I can't remember why she wasn't there.   Would your dh have his mother come and then pay for her to stay in a hotel to help you care for children post partum?    Rusty is not an ass.

Then it wasn't Rusty at all that forced his wife to have all these kids.  That was all Andrea!   She was a nurse, she insisted on homeschooling.   She was ridiculously crunchy and she was the one insisting on having more and more kids.   Is that what you mean by Rusty is a jerk?   He's not.

Then after she murdered the kids, Rusty forgave her.   He visited her in prison all the time!    It was Andrea that wanted him to get remarried.   Even after he was remarried he still came to visit her in prison.   Is that what you mean by Rusty is an asshole?    Even after he was married, he continued to advocate for Andrea to get mental health care.    Over and over Andrea wished him and his wife well.    They had her blessing to marry.

Andrea is a victim of her doctors who wouldn't take her illness seriously.   Rusty is a victim.    He's done a lot better by Andrea than most dh's would do given the same circumstances.   There are all sorts of accurate documentaries out about this.   

Who moved them to the bus? And if he recognized that Andrea had mental illness, a broken processing system if you will, why was he allowing her to make the decisions that you claim she was allowed to make?

Were they both mentally ill because that is the only way your reasoning holds any water.