Counting on Season 4 - Part 5 - Volunteering or Profiteering

[Bad Wolf]

I think I read that their church would give them food.

[libgirl2]

2 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

I think I read that their church would give them food.

I seem to remember that too. 

[Daisy0322]

3 hours ago, HideousGreenShirt said:

I'm still trying to get through this wedding special but I'm so creeped out by Michelle. When Kendra is trying on her dress and her mom is upset and says she's emotional and Michelle repeats "yes. Emotional." it's so sinister to me. She's just staring, transfixed with that smile on her face. 

Yes that was so creepy! My mom is similar though a lot so I'm use to it lol

38 minutes ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

I think that comes from comments like jIll saying she went to the bathroom to eat and Jessa making comments about how fast they would eat so they were sure to get seconds of the good stuff. 

I remember seeing somewhere that they ate a lot of rice and 3 main meals were rice with canned fruit, rice with canned vegetables or rice with canned meat.

[takers401]

17 minutes ago, Daisy0322 said:

Yes that was so creepy! My mom is similar though a lot so I'm use to it lol

I remember seeing somewhere that they ate a lot of rice and 3 main meals were rice with canned fruit, rice with canned vegetables or rice with canned meat.

I think there was also mention of rice with honey being a treat. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

1 hour ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

From an armchair physiological stand point I think Michelle suffers from untreated PTSD & depression.

From my armchair standpoint (and I get whatever specific degree I need at any given time from the University of Google), she acts like she's been lobotomized. 

 

[Carm_88]

Wasn't it that JB spent a lot of money on his campaign? They paid something like $100,000 (someone correct me here, I'm just vaguely recalling this) for him to get elected or re-elected and Michelle was feeding the kids rice 2 times a day. Something like that? 

[Coconut Flan]

There was rice three ways story, but that has certainly morphed like a game of telephone gossip.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

10 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

From my armchair standpoint (and I get whatever specific degree I need at any given time from the University of Google), she acts like she's been lobotomized. 

While I do hold a Google Doctorate, I do have a legit University Degree (accredited and everything) but yes she does have that zombie eyed stare of lobotomized individual.

[WhyNotJulie]

"This is the story of my family.  That's me - I'm Michelle.  There's Jim Bob, my wonderful husband - and our children:

Josh is our oldest, he married Anna, and they have five sweet little ones: Mackynzie, Michael, Marcus, Meredith and Mason. That is absolutely all there is to know about Josh. Then there's Jana, John-David, Jill - she married Derick, and they have two little boys, Israel and Samuel; Jessa - she married Ben, and they also have two little boys, Spurgeon and Henry; Jinger - she married Jeremy, and they're expecting their first blessing; Joseph - he married Kendra, and they've also got a little one on the way; Josiah - he's engaged to Lauren, and there's NO WAY we're he's letting this one go so we feel comfortable including her in the opening credits; Joy - she married Austin, and they just welcomed their first child Gideon.  That's 12 grandbabies. Can you believe how many grandbabies I have? I can't believe it either. I can't even remember their names.

Then there are our other, less marketable children: Jedidiah, Jeremiah, Jason, James, Justin, Jackson, Johannah, Jennifer, Jordyn, and our youngest, perfect, miracle child daughter, Josie. If you lost count, that's a grand total of 19 - and I delivered every one of them! Except for my nephew Tyler, who we kind of adopted, and treat just like all of our other forgotten children, even though his name doesn't even start with a J!

We are not a typical family - and it's not just because of our enormous size! We have very conservative values. Our children watch very little television, and we closely monitor their access to the internet, among other things, like people who might disagree with them or expose them to science topics not explicitly discussed in the bible. As for school, that happens around the dining room table, where I teach my first-graders and twelfth-graders all at the same time. To make ends meet, we own several commercial properties that we rent out to our sons-in-law.

It isn't always easy, but somehow we make it all work!"

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

From an armchair physiological stand point I think Michelle suffers from untreated PTSD & depression.  I've read several studies (my armchair just happens to have a degree to go with it but I'm not a licensed or completely trained therapist) where parents of micro premies and preterm infants can and do go through a trauma, the very real fear that they will lose their child, compounded by weeks and or months of stress caring for a sickly newborn, is emotionally scaring. As M dealt with Josie and her own health issues, she gets pregnant AGAIN, against doctors wishes, then this babies dies, inutero, her body was the babies sole source of life and it failed.

She was not allowed proper grieving time for Jubilee. The final turd on her shit sundae was never being able to conceive again. Being pregnant was her ENTIRE LIFE for over 20 years, and it was also over.  She should have gotten therapy and meds to deal with everything at that time.  She's over whelmed with too many children, an inflexible husband & lifestyle and she's just retreated into herself as much as she could to cope. Boob is too self absorbed to really care that his wife is a shell,  as long as she puts out and smiles sweetly at him.

I could see this being plausible. I had a 34 week preemie who was as healthy as a preemie could be and I still suffered panic attacks and anxiety. I still do sometimes and it’s been almost 16 months. Considering everything the Duggars experienced during her pregnancies with Josie and Jubilee, plus the hormonal and physical changes that occur during and after pregnancy, it wouldn’t surprise me if Michelle had been affected somehow. 

That said, it’s also possible that nothing is going on with Michelle or if there is something that it has nothing to do with her pregnancy experiences. 

(I’ve also read a little bit about the NICU/preemie experience the past year. It was reassuring to know that parents can experience trauma following a NICU stay of any length or a premature birth of any gestation. I felt so stupid and weak for so long for feeling somewhat traumatized by the experience and it was just nice to know that it’s actually rather normal.)

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

@VelociRapture, you are correct that it is a normal feeling. There are many accounts of individuals being diagnosed with PTSD after serious medical condition. PTSD isn't just for soldiers, as you know. 

[ViolaSebastian]

2 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

Wasn't it that JB spent a lot of money on his campaign? They paid something like $100,000 (someone correct me here, I'm just vaguely recalling this) for him to get elected or re-elected and Michelle was feeding the kids rice 2 times a day. Something like that? 

Ugh, if this is even halfway true, screw Jim Bob Duggar so hard. 

[tabitha2]

I took that to mean they didn’t have an endless supply to have seconds and thirds of or to dawdle over while eating not that they went to bed without food regularly. Whatever else is said Jim Bob  worked his ass off in the beginning and hustled. They were poor and scrimping for awhile but not destitute.

[Ivycoveredtower]

27 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

I took that to mean they didn’t have an endless supply to have seconds and thirds of or to dawdle over while eating not that they went to bed without food regularly. Whatever else is said Jim Bob  worked his ass off in the beginning and hustled. They were poor and scrimping for awhile but not destitute.

probably also has alot to do with little kids running around stealing off anyone's plate so the olders had to guard their food. (Thinking of Jill's bathroom comment)  remember on the one tell all when Jill said that when they were younger they would tell all the little kids they spit in the cup so that the littles wouldn't  take their drinks. 

[tabitha2]

Where was that from again???

[Satan'sFortress]

I don't remember the specific episodes or quotes about them being hungry---that is sad.

That being said, everyone I know who grew up in a big(ish) family remembers the mad scramble for food.   5 kids in my family and anytime my mother came home from the grocery store, we would circle like vultures. Definitely remember eating stuff right away as it may not be there later.  My mom actually counted out grapes (or Mint Milanos) to be sure we all got some!  We were middle class & never hungry in the sense that we were food insecure or anything like that.  Just had to grab the goodies before a sibling did. 

It was more of a funny thing, really.  I had thought that's what the Duggar kids meant, too, but the rice conversation has me thinking that it wasn't so funny with them.

BTW, Mr. Fortress is one of 2 children & never experienced anything like that.  When we started living together, he must have thought I was a food hoarder!  Actually, come to think of it, I do indeed have a secret stash of Trader Joe's Chocolate Chip Dunkaroos in my mystery hidey-place.  Old habits die hard! 

[Ivycoveredtower]

2 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Where was that from again???

it was supposed to say wouldn't take their drinks LOL fixed that but it was on one of the tell alls  it was the one where Jeremy surprised Jinger on set . Jill was talking about how the little kids would just take what ever cup they wanted so she'd tell them she spit in hers so they wouldn't take it. 

then Jessa had to pipe in and say she doesn't still do that and Derick made some crack he thought was funny about his and Jill's courtship. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

MrSlyther is one of two - he and his brother also did the "lick the rolls/spit in drinks" thing.

[HideousGreenShirt]

While I agree that Michelle has been checked out for a long time, there is something distinctly "off" with her in these recent episodes. I remember noticing it at Joy's dress appointment with awful Miss Renee. Everyone was giving input and asking Joy what she wanted, while Michelle was sat staring with that fixed smile. Then when everybody was standing up, fussing over Joy when she picked her dress, there was Michelle still sitting and smiling. In the next shot she was awkwardly standing a little closer as if a producer/Jana had prompted her to. 

I agree with all the posters mentioning ptsd, meltdowns etc, but more recently something seems different. 

I rewatched some older episodes/clips, and even in the Wedding Belles ep where they go to Erin Bates' wedding, she's laughing and helping decorate/destroy the church. 

I will say, she seemed enthusiastic and perhaps a little excessively animated when Jeremy came to TTH for his crappy meatball birthday dinner. 

If Jana and Laura weren't permanently stuck in the TTH, I'd be more concerned for those younger kids with her as the sole carer giver. 

Maybe she's just sick of being on camera, we'll probably never know. 

 

 

[HarleyQuinn]

I grew up on mostly bland cooking too. You should've seen me when I discovered basil

[Ivycoveredtower]

53 minutes ago, HideousGreenShirt said:

While I agree that Michelle has been checked out for a long time, there is something distinctly "off" with her in these recent episodes. I remember noticing it at Joy's dress appointment with awful Miss Renee. Everyone was giving input and asking Joy what she wanted, while Michelle was sat staring with that fixed smile. Then when everybody was standing up, fussing over Joy when she picked her dress, there was Michelle still sitting and smiling. In the next shot she was awkwardly standing a little closer as if a producer/Jana had prompted her to. 

I agree with all the posters mentioning ptsd, meltdowns etc, but more recently something seems different. 

I rewatched some older episodes/clips, and even in the Wedding Belles ep where they go to Erin Bates' wedding, she's laughing and helping decorate/destroy the church. 

I will say, she seemed enthusiastic and perhaps a little excessively animated when Jeremy came to TTH for his crappy meatball birthday dinner. 

If Jana and Laura weren't permanently stuck in the TTH, I'd be more concerned for those younger kids with her as the sole carer giver. 

Maybe she's just sick of being on camera, we'll probably never know. 

 

 

maybe it's the opposite. she is so used to being on camera and now she's regulated to a back ground player in counting on and her world is slowly falling apart. she doesn't really have her show anymore. now it's her kids show. her eldest son has to be practically hidden from society her son in law has basically gotten her perfect daughter kicked off the show and there has been talk on the Jinjer thread about how close JInger and Michelle may be so having JInger so far away may actually be really hard on Michelle.  add to that she hasn't had a baby a long time and she has to watch all her daughters/DIl have kids. which for Michelle must be hard for all her talk of seasons I don't think she wants to be out of the birthing season and into the grandma season. 

[MargaretElliott]

On 3/24/2018 at 10:11 AM, Queen said:

An "intact" hymen would mean she would have never have had her period, since the blood would not have be able to come out, and it's a very rare condition that requires medical help.

Hey, I'm wicked late to this party, but this is an imperforate, not what is colloquially known as an "intact" hymen. Even those with a microperforate hymen (hey guys! TMI! I had one, I needed surgery, and it was terrible!) menstruate regularly. A normal hymen covers less than 50% on the vaginal opening, mine covered like 90%, and I had normal periods. Sex was impossible, though. Too painful. If a fundie bride DID have an imperforate or microperforate hymen, she couldn't have sex on her wedding night without extreme physical pain, possibly resulting conditions such as vaginismus and anxiety, and PTSD. (Don't ask me how I know this, I just found out the hard way). BUT while the existence of a hymen maaaay prove virginity, a woman could also lose her hymen though rigorous physical activity, and not the sexytimes kind. So she could still be a "virgin" (god I hate that word) and not have any visible hymen tissue remaining. This has been brought to you by your friendly neighborhood woman with absolutely no boundaries who talks about her vagina on the internet. 

As to Michelle, my armchair diagnosis is that she has been royally fucked up (TM). I don't know if this is because of the cult, an overwhelming amount of kids, years of want, her lost pregnancies, no longer being the star, having no control anymore, or a combination of everything, but none of the factors listed above could have helped. I'm angry at her because of the way she's ruined her children's lives, but at the same time, I feel bad for this sad, hollow shell of a woman.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

3 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

MrSlyther is one of two - he and his brother also did the "lick the rolls/spit in drinks" thing.

MrNames is 1 of 5 boys, they did this as well. I do think it is just a "boy" thing. 

[shesinsane]

Wonderful recap, @Carm_88! The only thing you left out was Kendra got married 19 years and 28 days after she was born and her parents started praying for her to find a husband. I don't know why this is important but Pastor Caldwell mentioned it 5 or 6 times, so it must be important that Kendra was 19 years and 28 days old.

Joe and Kendra's bachelor/bachelorette party was a few episodes ago but I was late in watching. A bachelor/bachelorette party without alcohol isn't that remarkable, recovering addicts and people from other alcohol-free religions get married, too. A bachelor/bachelorette party without dancing, music, or the betrothed spending any time alone? That is unique (in a fundie sort of way). 

[marmalade]

8 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

I think I read that their church would give them food.

And clothes. 

ETA that the monetary amount that Boob actually spent on the failed Senate primary campaign was more in the $250,000 range. I think this number has been verified.