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Dillards 53: Making Assumptions and Indoctrinating the Children


Jellybean

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8 minutes ago, Glasgowghirl said:

I am really starting to worry about Jill and the boys Derick is uncontrollable and I hope he doesn't lose it with her or the kids. Derick may feel bitter about him not having the money or easy life he thought he would have. Instead of blaming TLC and insulting people online he should be getting a job and supporting his wife and kids. He claims he is working but he also claimed he working during his school years.

There's nothing to suggest Derick "loses it" with his family.  He didn't come across as losing it (to me) on social media - just frustrated, bitter, and trying to elicit sympathy but being too stupid to successfully do so.

Sure, he COULD secretly be abusive - lots of men are. But we've got no evidence to suggest he's anything more than lazy, entitled, deceitful, rude and very dim.  :P

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Those books are so not appropriate literature for 4-6 year olds. I actually feel really sad for Izzy. Reading good books with kids can be so fun, and so important. I wish Jill would read some Beverly Cleary to Izzy.

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8 hours ago, Jinder Roles said:

@Crazy Enough to Join I agree and think you misinterpreted my post. I don't think not being fundie means having to have a liberal social viewpoint. 

I think Jill is still fundie because the definition of fundie is evolving. She has not nothing majorly contrary to fundie-ness. I think over the years, fundies have slowly adapted their clothing to fit more into 'mainstream'. So her and Singer wearing jeans isn't as rebellious as it would have been in their prairie dress days.  Jill is fundie-medium for me right now. 

Not being fundie to me means 

1. Chemical birth control 

2. Getting rid of the view of helpmeets and staunch complementarianism and the overt patriarchal/stiff gender roles 

3. Women being allowed to work outside the homes/ make major financial contributions to the household/have financial independence

4. Unmarried adult children living on their own (especially the girls) 

5. Consumption of alcohol (for the Duggars) 

6. Going to a brick and mortar school that doesn't have an overtly biased conservative Christian curriculum. Hell, I'll just take accredited brick and mortar school for now. 

7. The ability to date/court without chaperones and truly set their own courtship rules. 

I'd agree with all these and just add (especially for the chemical birth control and consumption of alcohol), that you don't care if other people partake in them either. You can be a non-drinker and just not roll out of the hospital when you have a sick premie to lecture to people about gas stations selling beer. And maybe you don't use chemical birth control, but you also support people's right to have access to it. For me, a big part of being fundie is aggressively pushing your personal and religious beliefs on others, feeling that your way is the only way people should live, and thinking that people are inferior if they don't toe your line. 

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1 hour ago, libgirl2 said:

And we read Thomas the Tank Engine! Oh the shame! 

Better think twice about the nefarious influence of Thomas the Tank Engine!  According to some critics, his story-world promotes authoritarianism.  Who knew?    :wtsf:

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/rabbit-holes/the-repressive-authoritarian-soul-of-thomas-the-tank-engine-and-friends

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Drala said:

Better think twice about the nefarious influence of Thomas the Tank Engine!  According to some critics, his story-world promotes authoritarianism.  Who knew?    :wtsf:

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/rabbit-holes/the-repressive-authoritarian-soul-of-thomas-the-tank-engine-and-friends

 

 

Reminds me of the person who thinks Elf on the Shelf prepares children for living in a dystopian police state:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/18/elf-on-the-shelf-foucault_n_6343674.html

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To whomever posted the page from the Duggar's book, I think it was in a Dillard thread, that talked about how they paid for Josie's hospitalization.

JB was wordsmithing. There is no way in hell that he turned away the automatic government aid for Josie's care- no way in hell. This is a man with a reputation of taking his family to every kids eat free established in NWA- Chocolate sundaes anyone?

He might not have applied for additional aid, but he sure as hell did not turn down that help when it was offered. No one would.

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I think a fundie is someone who lives an isolating lifestyle. I think you become less fundie when you can experience other ways of life without being judgemental or you vs. them. Fundamentalists have black and white thinking and can't see shades of gray. For example, I don't think it matters what a person is wearing, but rather the reason behind it. If Jill thinks that wearing pants is a way of her choosing her own beliefs in right vs. wrong and it's her independent choice, then it's a sign of becoming less fundie. However, if Jill's husband or pastor said pants was ok and she jumped on that bandwagon without thinking it through for herself, she is still as fundie as ever.

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3 hours ago, FJismyheadship said:

Soooo I totally read that last hashtag as Jesus Loves The Mall.

Everyone does. Bless Carlin Bates’ little heart for unintentionally creating my favorite fundie hashtag. :pb_lol:

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Thomas the Tank Engine is a classic, though I did use to hate my nephew playing all the episodes on repeat. I don't get why anyone would take issue with it. I personally wouldn't do Elf on the Shelf but again nothing wrong with it. The Tuttle Twins stories are a different matter, those stories are brainwashing kids.

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I was the evil heathen mother who signed her daughter up for the Imagination Library.... And now she can read basic books and isnt even in kindergarten yet. #takethatdillards

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1 hour ago, LurkerOverThePond said:

Psst, Cathy! If you are wondering what to buy next to your grandkids... https://www.amazon.com/Parents-Open-Carry-Brian-Jeffs/dp/1618081012

Maybe the Botkinettes can enter their next season of life and partner with T-Rex Arms to write open carry books for children?  The main characters can be a family of T-rexes that are all pro-gun, but they have to deal with living in a land run by liberal PLANT EATERS who want to take away everything the Rexes stand for.  Also, the damn plant eaters wont respond to the pterodactyl threat, and keep WELCOMING them into the country!  

Starring:

Daddy Rex: The strong patriarch with a heart of gold who always keeps his family safe and true to their values

Mama Rex: a true virtuous lady who would be unsafe and a helpless victim to rogue triceratops except for her open carry (and possibly the fact that she is a T-rex but no one talks about that)

Anne Boleyn Rex: Eldest daughter.  Stays at home.  Very virtuous.  Often harassed by plant eaters with no morals, but stands up to them and is given confidence to stand for her values thanks to her gun.

Adam Isaac Rex: The son.  A tough as nails "boy's boy" who loves everything "man" and also guns.

Jane Grey Rex:   Youngest daughter and baby of the family.  WILL THE PLANT EATERS CORRUPT HER? No, because Daddy Rex gives her her first gun in the opening book.  

President Obamasaurus: the corrupt triceratops from a crooked political ring.  Wants to take away guns from meat eaters because he hates freedom and carnivores.  The guns are the only thing stopping him from sending carnivores to camps.  

Hillasaurus: Obamasaurus' iguanodon adviser.  Clearly has access to advanced weapons technology as the Rexes often bring up that she's engaged in drone and missile strike warfare, but evidently she is completely stopped by handguns.  K guys.  

Trumpycephalosaurus: a pachycephalosaurus who is the only hope for the carnivores.  He doesn't do things plant-eater style.  No sir, this guy gets things done by just headbutting everything.  Some dinos say it's "undignified" and "unproductive" and "does he have brains or...?" but the Rexes know that's just fake news and that Trumpycephalosaurus is the only hope for the United Dinos of America (GOD'S country).  Later becomes president.  Still headbutts.  

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19 minutes ago, Glasgowghirl said:

Thomas the Tank Engine is a classic, though I did use to hate my nephew playing all the episodes on repeat. I don't get why anyone would take issue with it. I personally wouldn't do Elf on the Shelf but again nothing wrong with it. The Tuttle Twins stories are a different matter, those stories are brainwashing kids.

I first watched Thomas before my son was born, back when it was on Shining Time Station with Ringo Starr as Mr. Conductor. I loved it and promised if I had a boy he would watch the show too. He did and he loved it. I still have a big bin full of the trains and accessories that we got for him thru the years. He would spend hours playing. He also was an early reader (like 18 mos) and I have a picture of him, probably about 3 or 4 with a huge book that had the whole original Thomas stories. Those stories were not simple. 

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The term "fundamentalism" has many meanings, most of them debatable and/or contested. The term originally arose in a very specific time period and culture, namely among nineteenth American Protestants who were disturbed by the growing influence of evolution and German higher criticism on the religious landscape in their country, an event that is known as the modernist-fundamentalist controversy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist–Modernist_Controversy

A similar controversy occurred within nineteenth century Catholicism, but the hierarchical nature of that Church was such that modernism could be neutered until Vatican II. Depending on who you talk to, Vatican II was either when modernism finally breached the fortress of Catholicism or when it finally realized that throne and altar politics were gone and never coming back. In any case, the problem is that because fundamentalism was originally only used to describe a particular kind of American Protestantism and using the term, it becomes rather problematic to use the term to talk about other religions. Thus, you will find groups that FJ would consider "fundie" like Catholic traditionalists, Sunni salafists, and haredi Jews who would never describe themselves as fundamentalist because of the Protestant overtones. 

Within anthropology and sociology, there is not a consensus about whether the term "fundamentalism" should be used within the academy. Some researchers believe that fundamentalism is a useful umbrella term that can be used to refer to a particular type of religious response to modernity. For example, the Fundamentalism Project was a controversial attempt to try and create a string theory of sorts that could describe fundamentalism across religious and cultural lines:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fundamentalism_Project (this is not an ideal entry, but the projects findings are in huge reference books that the average Fjer doesn't have access to, so this is about as good as it's going to get)

This is a very good academic encyclopedia article about the many meanings of fundamentalism, including my favorite definition:

http://hirr.hartsem.edu/ency/fundamentals.htm

Quote

Riesebrodt (1993) conceptualizes fundamentalism as one kind of radically traditionalist movement, which typically has its origin not so much in a grand ideological struggle between modernity and tradition but, instead, in the increasing inability of traditional cultural milieux to reproduce themselves under modern (concretely: urban) conditions. Central to this reproduction is an overriding concern with maintaining or restoring a patriarchal structure. Finding variations on this general theme becomes a matter of identifying the factors aiding in the mobilization of protest movements that hark back to an original community, albeit for highly contemporary purposes. In the case of turn-of-the-century American fundamentalism, he emphasizes both internal stimuli, such as the resistance against church bureaucratization, and external conditions, such as the sociocultural differentiation of major cities. In the case of Iran, he highlights not only the impact of modernizing structural change in society at large but also such factors as the actual threat from state action experienced by traditional milieux and the pervasive influence of new, Western cultural conceptions.

If we understand fundamentalism in the broader sense as a sort of weaponized patriarchy, then questions over birth control, skirts-only, and homeschooling become minor issues. Whether a particular fundamentalist subculture subscribes to any of these things is more about the quirks of the individual community, rather than anything essential to the nature of fundamentalism as such. Plus, it allows us to examine the diversity and diversions within subgroups that are broadly identified as being within the same family of fundamentalism.

One big source of division within Protestant fundamentalism is the question about how to interpret Pentecostal and Charismatic forms of the faith. Old school fundamentalists like Jerry Falwell (and he really did self-identify as a fundamentalist) and Bill Gothard regard charismatic forms of Christianity as flirting with the demonic at worst, and just unbecoming as a Christian at best. However, some of the most popular modern televangelists like TD Jakes and the Hillsong phenomenon are part of the neo-Pentacostal wave, and espouse patriarchal views, albeit in a softer way. In fact, Pentecostalism is often believed to be the fasting growing religion in the world:

http://www.pewresearch.org/topics/pentecostals-and-pentecostalism/

Race, at least in the United States, is another big cleavage among those who are presumed to be fundamentalist. There is a lot of controversy in the literature about whether black Christians should be considered "evangelical." Evangelical is another contested term, but the research shows that if defined in terms of beliefs (i.e. having a born again experience, a belief in Biblical inerrancy, attending church regularly) then most black Christians would qualify. Yet, the voting behavior of black Christians is so different than that of their white counterparts, that they pose a problem for sociologists trying to draw larger conclusions about the political outlook of evangelicalism and fundamentalism. To me, it's pretty easy to explain the difference by racism and by the fact that white Christianity in general has been quite comfortable preaching a gospel of white supremacy, but few people seem to want to go there. In any case, broad terms like "fundie" and "evangelical" can hide as much as they illuminate.

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The Duggars wouldn't like Thomas because it was written by an English vicar. My kids and grandkids loved it, and I still have the wooden track and some of the trains, just in case. Wolf boy came home from college once, and set up the track throughout the house. You're never too old for Thomas.

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Thomas the tank engine is a pain in the ass! My seven and a half year old has been obsessed for about 7 years. I don't mind the thousands of trains or pieces of track that clutter the house, I don't mind the TV show or movies although the originals narrated by Ringo Starr are my favourite and I'm sure his love of the books is why he was reading independently before he started nursery. But for the love of Rufus that train cannot follow an instruction! He constantly contradicts his driver or the fat controller/Sir Toppham Hat, he never does the job he was sent to do and he must've cost them a fortune in repairs after all his escapades :my_angry:

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3 minutes ago, Ais said:

Thomas the tank engine is a pain in the ass! My seven and a half year old has been obsessed for about 7 years. I don't mind the thousands of trains or pieces of track that clutter the house, I don't mind the TV show or movies although the originals narrated by Ringo Starr are my favourite and I'm sure his love of the books is why he was reading independently before he started nursery. But for the love of Rufus that train cannot follow an instruction! He constantly contradicts his driver or the fat controller/Sir Toppham Hat, he never does the job he was sent to do and he must've cost them a fortune in repairs after all his escapades :my_angry:

My son was into Thomas before it got so big. I ordered trains online or we would visit a hobby shop that had Thomas things 45 minutes away. I don't live in the middle of nowhere, Chicago burbs.... now you can find Thomas stuff everywhere. There is a train museum that did an afternoon out with Thomas when my son was about 4 or 5. They ran out of concessions because they didn't realize that many people would show up. All of a sudden stores started to catch on and in a couple years Thomas was showing up everywhere. 

 

Ringo was still the best :) 

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I loved Shining Time Station! But recently there was a Reddit thread discussing some serious societal undertones that I didn't notice as a child, but definitely make me think as an adult. Things like boarding up and ignoring 'misbehaving' trains and those with performance issues (i.e. disabled trains). The trains also bullied one another. 

Basically all media is biased and we should always discuss its meanings with our children to develop critical thought. 

Especially the Bible. 

Should we all go together on making a fundie-approved kid's show that has hidden critical thought messages that the adults won't understand? We could stream it and use the profits to create a liberation scholarship / fund.

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3 hours ago, Drala said:

Better think twice about the nefarious influence of Thomas the Tank Engine!  According to some critics, his story-world promotes authoritarianism.  Who knew?    :wtsf:

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/rabbit-holes/the-repressive-authoritarian-soul-of-thomas-the-tank-engine-and-friends

 

 

I can say, authoritatively, that my son was a big Thomas the tank engine fan, but had no trouble questioning mah authority on a number of occasions. 

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I mean, the Smurfs are antisemitic and racist too, nothing is safe anymore. :pb_lol: 

 

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2 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I mean, the Smurfs are antisemitic and racist too, nothing is safe anymore. :pb_lol: 

 

I do wonder what books are "safe" now.  I read my kid run away bunny and think, isn't the mom a bit controlling, is this really a healthy relationship?  

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Speaking of child indoctrination, for a while my friend group was into the Left Behind: The Kids series. Freaked me out a bit much to get too far into them. Being raised Catholic I got really scared by the whole rapture thing because I didn't understand how good people didn't get raptured. 

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28 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

I do wonder what books are "safe" now.  I read my kid run away bunny and think, isn't the mom a bit controlling, is this really a healthy relationship?  

Also, it saddens me when I think of the issues with the Little House books. I loved them growing up.

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