Joy & Austin 21: Still Talking About Baby Gideon

[Ivycoveredtower]

6 minutes ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

From what I’m gleaning from FJ, Jill took her CPM program exam and became certified. One must have certification from a CPM program to apply for the state license exam. (A quick search shows these programs take 1-3 years depending on where you go.) Testing is a two-step process, certification exam from the CPM program, and licensing exam from the state. I believe she took the certification exam that Derick drove her to, and that she passed, as Derick stated. She isn’t listed as licensed, so therefore she either never took the licensing exam, or she took it, but didn’t pass.  

I tend to lean toward never took it. First reason being, several posters mentioned that Jill was happy assisting, and did not have the ambition to become a CPM, but got pushed into it. By the time she took the exam for certification, she was married and expecting a child. I don’t think she was motivated to get licensed. It wasn’t what she wanted, and she had moved on to other things in her life, being a wife and mother.

Second reason being, if she lost her certification and all of her apprenticeship hours when Venessa Giron lost her license, (because the apprenticeship hours done under Venessa no longer counted), than she would have had to start all over as an apprentice under a different midwife. We have not heard about anything remotely close to Jill studying under a new CPM. I don’t think they could/would hide Jill studying under a new CPM.

Venessa’s errors are firmly Venessa’s fault, not Jill’s, so there’s nothing to hide, plus that info is already out. It was unfortunate that Jill chose to study under Venessa. It would have been prudent for Jill to have been matter of fact about the situation, “My hours don’t count, I would have to start over, but I’m undecided at this time if I want to undertake such a big commitment because I’m satisfied with my current level of family responsibility.”  It doesn’t have to be the big whisper mill they’ve turned it into.

from what I can find it seems Vanessa lost her licence in April 15. Jill claims to have taken and passed the test in September 15. I don't think she took any legitimate test ever. by the time she took her test her hours would have already been void. 

 

[zygote373]

They do actually show the midwife from behind in one clip. She has long wavy blonde hair, down, and is holding what looks like a heart rate monitor (?). I don't recognize her as any of the usual Duggar midwives like Teresa Fedosky or the Query woman.

Spoiler

 

I'm assuming she's the midwife because it's not any of the people actually shown on camera below (Jill, Austin's sister, Johanna, Austin's mother, and Austin, from left to right).

Spoiler

 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

11 minutes ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

from what I can find it seems Vanessa lost her licence in April 15. Jill claims to have taken and passed the test in September 15. I don't think she took any legitimate test ever. by the time she took her test her hours would have already been void. 

 

The hours were void for licensure in AR, but I don't think NARM cares about that since Venessa is still CPM as far as we know (she is practicing in other states).  That's probably why Jill went to TX...she just needed to complete her 'portfolio of births' to become a CPM.  This is why I can't stand the CPM cert...there's nothing 'certified' or 'professional' about it.

The Duggars are shady, but I don't think Jill would have out and out lied about taking the CPM test.

[Million Children For Jesus]

I thought Jill went to Texas because she took a distance course for the classroom requirements for the certification? 

Edit: I found the TLC blog written by Jill that confirms it was a 3 1/2 year, partial distance education program. There is always an apprenticeship required. It appears she began in May 2012, and according to the above post, took the CPM certification exam in September, 2015. 

Spoiler

6.21.13

Photo: DCL

In honor of Josh & Anna's new arrival, Jill and Jana are guest blogging for Michelle.

Jill on Delivering Babies

Hey, Jill here! These days, I'm staying busy, buried in the books and delivering babies, amidst the exciting Duggar life. For those of you who were wondering about how I started delivering babies, I'll tell you the story.

Back a few years ago, I had the opportunity to attend 12 weeks of childbirth classes with my 14-year-old friend, who was a single mom. Through these classes, I learned how to coach her during the birth of her child. Although I had attended two of my siblings' births, being able to work as an active part of my friend's birth made me interested in learning more. I became friends with a doula/labor coach who worked in the area, and started going to home and hospital births with her. Soon, I became her assistant, and through that, I came into contact with other local midwives. Over the course of the next several years, these midwives would call on me periodically for help at home births.

I had been considering attending nursing school for a while, but the timing of it all wasn't working out, and I spent a lot of time in prayer, trying to figure out where God was leading me. Eventually, through my work with the local midwives, the door opened for me to enter into a distance-learning midwifery training program in Texas. This program, after about 3 1/2 years of schooling, would give me the education I need to become a licensed, Certified Professional Midwife (CPM). My parents and I prayed and talked about this opportunity, and in May of 2012, I started midwifery school. Currently, my life consists of studying like crazy to keep up with my schooling through this distance-learning program, and at the same time, working as the senior apprentice under a local, nationally certified licensed midwife to deliver babies in an out-of-hospital setting.

Midwifery care allows for a mother to have more specific, personalized care, and to choose the options that are best for the particular needs of her pregnancy and family. After all, mother knows best, and midwifery care allows moms to make their own choices. Midwives provide routine prenatal care throughout pregnancy, with an emphasis on flexibility and individualization, as well as labor, delivery, and postpartum care. Through spending all that time together, a relationship is formed, and there is mutual trust and respect between midwife and mom.

Since I've started down this path to become a midwife, I've had the privilege of attending the births of over 60 babies! Each birth is incredibly unique and special, and I learn something new at every one of them. Not everything is peaches and cream, and some days are hard, but I have been blessed to work with a great group of ladies. (Jana included! But more on that later.) The main goal of our practice as home birth midwives is to make sure that both momma and baby are healthy. Sometimes that happens in the home, and sometimes it happens at the hospital, but wherever we are, we pray for the best possible outcome for the people we serve. There are many joys of being a student midwife; for example, seeing previous clients return for subsequent pregnancies, laboring with a young, single mom who was giving her baby up for adoption, helping my sister-in-law bring my niece and nephews into the world, or just simply holding a newborn baby! I really love what I am doing, and am thankful for all these amazing opportunities!

 

[ViolaSebastian]

38 minutes ago, zygote373 said:

They do actually show the midwife from behind in one clip. She has long wavy blonde hair, down, and is holding what looks like a heart rate monitor (?). I don't recognize her as any of the usual Duggar midwives like Teresa Fedosky or the Query woman.

  Hide contents

 

I'm assuming she's the midwife because it's not any of the people actually shown on camera below (Jill, Austin's sister, Johanna, Austin's mother, and Austin, from left to right).

  Hide contents

 

I’m struck by how many people are all over Joy. I can’t imagine being in pain and everyone breathing all over me and touching me. Ugh. 

[Meggo]

2 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I’m struck by how many people are all over Joy. I can’t imagine being in pain and everyone breathing all over me and touching me. Ugh. 

I thought the same thing - Ugh - bugger off all you extra people!! 

I also thought - when someone said JBoob ran to his car to get to the hospital - how surreal that must be. I've never given birth but I can't imagine my kid - she's essentially a kid - going through that. Laboring with half the family fussing over her and then dashing off to the hospital for her to have emergency major surgery and... she's just a KID. She's just a baby. 

 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

5 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I’m struck by how many people are all over Joy. I can’t imagine being in pain and everyone breathing all over me and touching me. Ugh. 

I definitely didn't want anyone fawning all over me like that.  If it had been me, they all would have been slapped.  My poor husband was trying to comfort me and I kept pushing his hand away.  I finally got angry and yelled STOP! TOUCHING! ME!  He felt  really bad about making it worse and I felt bad for being mean.  But the touching just made me feel even more horrible when I was in pain.

However, I was a completely different person once I got the epidural...lol.  

[MoonFace]

On 3/14/2018 at 7:04 AM, LittleOwl said:

My main question is: Why on earth is Austen still wearing a cap in the theatre???  Complete with the hairnet on top of the cap 

Why do they wear hats in the house?   Especially backwards?  

 

Oh, I know!  They are backwards!

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

44 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I’m struck by how many people are all over Joy. I can’t imagine being in pain and everyone breathing all over me and touching me. Ugh. 

I agree, and I had 7 family members in the delivery room for my second birth. My husband was on my right side, my sister was on my left side, and everyone else was sitting quietly over to the side. If they had been all over me, like the people are in that screenshot with Joy, I would have kicked most of them out!

[Glasgowghirl]

These people have got to start using proper healthcare, it may not have prevented Joy needing a section but these girls keep taking risks. Only Anna so far has not been rushed to hospital during or after birth. Not blaming Joy as we don't know all the facts yet but they all need to start taking both their health and babies health more seriously.

[neurogirl]

@mango_fandango We know that Addallee has imperfect hearing, and viewers of the Bates show have noticed her speech may reflect that. Other than that we don't know if she has lasting symptoms from her traumatic birth. I also I think the double letters in her name are kind of cute. 

[mango_fandango]

Thanks @neurogirl. I don't keep up with the Bateses much but she seems to generally be OK. I don't think they've mentioned her having any kind of seizures ever like Josie Duggar has had. (Maybe they're similar in that way, mostly doing well but occasional issues?)

[PainfullyAware]

Personally I don't feel like I know enough to judge Joy for being Reckless with her health and her baby's Health in this particular delivery. We don't know for sure that the midwife wasn't properly licensed. We don't know whether the breech position should have been detected earlier so a safe birth in a hospital could have been pre-planned. We definitely don't know if there was any fetal distress like in Jill's case. At least I don't think we know those things unless I missed something! There's absolutely a pattern of less than safe choices among the sisters for their labor and delivery but I just want to be cautious about tarring them all with the same brush. I also don't think we should extrapolate to the safety of all home births based on the experiences of the Duggars! On a different note I really don't understand why they don't believe that God facilitated modern medicine to help heal people. It seems odd to me to judge a life-saving practice as secular instead of as one of God's miracles? I'm speaking as an agnostic imagining what a devout Christian would believe so I'm probably missing something.

[Meggo]

14 hours ago, metheglyn said:

Considering she was apparently only 4 pounds 13 oz AFTER being released from a 17 day NICU stay, Kelly went into quite early premature labor. Addallee may not have even been supposed to be a homebirth, since it sounds like Kelly just progressed too rapidly for them to even get her to the hospital before Addallee was born.

Good LORD. My son spent just about a month in the NICU and came out at 5lbs on the nose. (he started at 3lbs 9oz)
He was born at 31w5d and while I didn't give birth to him, and he was almost born in the ambulance - I can't IMAGINE having a baby that early at home. Now maybe she just didn't know and there wasn't time - not here to pass judgement - only to say "How terrifying!!"

Five pound babies are TINY. Even the preemie clothes were just a tad too big on him. They're terrifying to bring home - I can't imagine a littler one... (gonna give my boy a big hug after school) 

And that's why Gideon looks like a MOOSE to me. My experience with babies was on the extremely wee side - even 7lb babies look massive to me.

 

[LiLSeaWitch]

These Duggar girls have big babies, Joys baby bump was huge. I remember my OB judging the size of my baby by how my belly measured. Why didn’t Joy, her mother, or even a sister look at her belly and  say, that is one huge baby maybe you should deliver at the hospital just in case. I’m actually glad Gideon preformed summersaults because I’m not sure Joy could have delivered him without some complications. 

[metheglyn]

3 minutes ago, Meggo said:

Good LORD. My son spent just about a month in the NICU and came out at 5lbs on the nose. (he started at 3lbs 9oz)
He was born at 31w5d and while I didn't give birth to him, and he was almost born in the ambulance - I can't IMAGINE having a baby that early at home. Now maybe she just didn't know and there wasn't time - not here to pass judgement - only to say "How terrifying!!"

Five pound babies are TINY. Even the preemie clothes were just a tad too big on him. They're terrifying to bring home - I can't imagine a littler one... (gonna give my boy a big hug after school) 

 

Yeah, the Bates' own website said she was that tiny on coming home from the hospital. https://thebatesfamily.com/about-family/ That's scary small.

According to this article, apparently 14 of Kelly's first 18 births were at home: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/bates-family-20-praying-children/story?id=14359053 So that suggests that the last babies being born in the hospital were specifically because they were aware that there were starting to be problems including the problems with the very tiny Addallee.

After all, she had two miscarriages (Jewels and Jubilee?) between pregnancies live births 16 (Ellie) and 17 (Callie-Anna) following the very early birth of 15 (Addallee).  There was then another miscarriage (Zion) between Judson (18) and Jeb (19). And then there was another miscarriage after Jeb (Sunny).  https://web.archive.org/web/20120913080436/https://thebatesfamily.com/blog/family-news/2012/09/07/rain-or-shine.aspx
 

[albireo]

Do we know what Addallee's name was originally intended to be? Adalee? Adele?

[Ivycoveredtower]

12 minutes ago, metheglyn said:

Yeah, the Bates' own website said she was that tiny on coming home from the hospital. https://thebatesfamily.com/about-family/ That's scary small.

According to this article, apparently 14 of Kelly's first 18 births were at home: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/bates-family-20-praying-children/story?id=14359053 So that suggests that the last babies being born in the hospital were specifically because they were aware that there were starting to be problems including the problems with the very tiny Addallee.

After all, she had two miscarriages (Jewels and Jubilee?) between pregnancies live births 16 (Ellie) and 17 (Callie-Anna) following the very early birth of 15 (Addallee).  There was then another miscarriage (Zion) between Judson (18) and Jeb (19). And then there was another miscarriage after Jeb (Sunny).  https://web.archive.org/web/20120913080436/https://thebatesfamily.com/blog/family-news/2012/09/07/rain-or-shine.aspx
 

first of all those names are crazy I hope those wouldn't have been the real names they would have used if the babies had carried to term. so that means Kelly had the potential of 23 kids if they had all lived. and that's only if those were her Only miscarriages. 

[Georgiana]

8 minutes ago, albireo said:

Do we know what Addallee's name was originally intended to be? Adalee? Adele?

I would guess Addalee, assuming they stuck with the same name and didn't go with something completely different.  I've seen Addalee before, and google suggests that this is a/the common spelling.  Adalee also might be it, but I would pronounce Adalee differently from Addalee/Addallee.

But I think Addalee makes sense because they may have looked at all the double letters, thought it signified a second chance, and then added the extra L.  That's about all the intelligence and creativity I'm willing to assign Gil/Kelly Bates.  I think they could get there from Addalee, but I'm not sure they could get there from Adalee.  

[metheglyn]

2 hours ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

first of all those names are crazy I hope those wouldn't have been the real names they would have used if the babies had carried to term. so that means Kelly had the potential of 23 kids if they had all lived. and that's only if those were her Only miscarriages. 

No, per the blog the names were specifically chosen for the miscarriages. https://web.archive.org/web/20120913080436/https://thebatesfamily.com/blog/family-news/2012/09/07/rain-or-shine.aspx

Kelly wrote: 

"We have experienced 3 other misscarriages, and each time we chose a name that would remind us of a hymn that we could sing during our times of sadness. (Jewels was named after the hymn, "Precious Jewels." Jubilee was named after the Scripture song, "This is the Year of Jubilee." Zion was named after the hymn, "We're Marching to Zion.")

    We asked God to help us choose a fitting name for this little one, and at the same time to restore gladness to our hearts. We chose the name "Sunny" after the hymn "There is Sunshine in My Soul." " 

I will say that some of the current kids wouldn't exist without the miscarriages though, since Jeb was conceived during the time that Kelly should have been pregnant with Sunny, and others overlapped as well.

(Note, I'm using Wayback links for this blog posting because it appears to have been purged or moved at some point. Kelly did significantly revise the blog after getting the new TV show. Looking at the current version, I can't even figure out how to get to the "About Us" page without direct linking, let alone to any blog postings without hitting up the page not found search function.)

[VelociRapture]

3 hours ago, Meggo said:

Good LORD. My son spent just about a month in the NICU and came out at 5lbs on the nose. (he started at 3lbs 9oz)
He was born at 31w5d and while I didn't give birth to him, and he was almost born in the ambulance - I can't IMAGINE having a baby that early at home. Now maybe she just didn't know and there wasn't time - not here to pass judgement - only to say "How terrifying!!"

Five pound babies are TINY. Even the preemie clothes were just a tad too big on him. They're terrifying to bring home - I can't imagine a littler one... (gonna give my boy a big hug after school) 

And that's why Gideon looks like a MOOSE to me. My experience with babies was on the extremely wee side - even 7lb babies look massive to me.

 

Yep. My baby was exactly 5 pounds at birth and she was much tinier compared to my 8.5 pound nephew. Preemie clothes fit her well lengthwise, but they were a bit baggy on her. 

I do want to point out that many babies actually lose weight right after birth because they can’t just mooch off of the umbilical cord anymore. My daughter dropped under 5 pounds and had to prove she could gain and keep on weight prior to being released. She was back to exactly 5 pounds when she was discharged a week later, but it’s possible Addie was ready to be released and she just hadn’t regained all the weight she had lost at that point. 

[Fascinated]

1 hour ago, metheglyn said:

I will say that some of the current kids wouldn't exist without the miscarriages though, since Jeb was conceived during the time that Kelly should have been pregnant with Sunny, and others overlapped as well.

You’ve touched on something here that I’ve always struggled with.  Our second baby was born at just over 28 weeks*. Over the years people have said things like, well, your next two would be different if that hadn’t happened. I know that the timing would probably have been different and that that is probably true. I have never been able to accept it though. It hurts because I didn’t want to think that he needed to die in order for us to have the children we had. Does that make sense?  Probably not. 

*going back to the emergency c-section discussion for a moment - this was classified as such because it was done quickly and because they did a vertical incision in both the abdomen and uterus. These are the types that are at risk for rupture, so no attempted VBACs for me. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

4 hours ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

first of all those names are crazy I hope those wouldn't have been the real names they would have used if the babies had carried to term. so that means Kelly had the potential of 23 kids if they had all lived. and that's only if those were her Only miscarriages. 

I'm so over judging people for what they name their kids.

Except Jessa. I'll always judge her for Spurgeon.

[Kailash]

12 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

I'm so over judging people for what they name their kids.

Except Jessa. I'll always judge her for Spurgeon.

Really? Going by your downvotes you judge almost everything else. 

[Bad Wolf]

Over 50 years ago, my sister had a vertical c section. 3 years later she had a VBAC. This was in England.