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Baby Kyle Maxwell Is Here


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Nathan and Melanie also took awhile to conceive Susannah. They also had a no touch courtship right? There can't be a lot of no touch courtships that produced a honeymoon baby. It's like arranged marriages between the monarchs of Europe. Sometimes the first time they met was the wedding day and many of those marriages didn't produce a child 9 months after the wedding. Marie Antoinette didn't conceive for over 6 years. Then didn't have much trouble conceiving. They probably didn't have sex at first and I think part of it was the fact that they didn't know eachother and they were teenagers. 

Chelsy and John will not have this problem. They couldn't keep their hands off each other. 

 

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Nathan and Melanie actually did touch before they were married.  Teri mentions them practicing entwining their arms for their wedding toast (with the pulpless punch, I guess)  a few days before the wedding.

They also had fertility issues for the first four years of their marriage.

https://blog.titus2.com/2006/10/10/psalm-127/

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1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Nathan and Melanie also took awhile to conceive Susannah. They also had a no touch courtship right? There can't be a lot of no touch courtships that produced a honeymoon baby. It's like arranged marriages between the monarchs of Europe. Sometimes the first time they met was the wedding day and many of those marriages didn't produce a child 9 months after the wedding. Marie Antoinette didn't conceive for over 6 years. Then didn't have much trouble conceiving. They probably didn't have sex at first and I think part of it was the fact that they didn't know eachother and they were teenagers. 

Chelsy and John will not have this problem. They couldn't keep their hands off each other. 

 

Well, Nathan and Melanie were infertile for about 4 years and struggled in nearly all subsequent pregnancies including a couple miscarriages if I am not mistaken. Can't really use them as an example. Infertility has nothing to do with how much or how little a person a person knows about each other. Most people are not having honeymoon babies regardless. It takes most people a couple months/tries to conceive even when fertile. Cannot assume Chelsy and John will have a baby straight from the honeymoon. Possible, sure, but just because both their families are rather large (8-10 kids) automatically means they will also have baby after baby after baby. Even if they have one without issue, secondary infertility is also a thing. She may have a lot of children, she may not, but I certainly hope they don't have to go through what Nathan and Melanie did. 

I do think that the no touch courtships and the repression of sexuality cause issues and are likely a factor in seemingly fertile couples having a long gap between marriage and baby one. After that, breastfeeding and return of fertility tend to factor in how long it takes to conceive a second, third, etc. Some don't get a delay from breastfeeding while other women will get 1-3 years depending on long they breastfeed. Most people are not Michelle Duggar or Kelly Bates fertile thankfully. : )

 

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1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I have dealt with infertility and infertility treatments. The stats for getting pregnant in the first 6 months are pretty high. This is an interesting link on rates of fertility in a year of no protection:

https://www.verywellfamily.com/how-quickly-can-you-expect-to-get-pregnant-1960290

If I got that link right this was for timed intercourse and we do not know if the Maxwell family is like the Duggars and test away. If they don't test it is normal for it to take a bit longer than if you do even with normal fertility. Also, some women get pregnant more easily after their first child. In all, Anna's spaces seem very much within the norm for a couple not checking ovulation but also not avoiding sex. Also, starting to check ovulation could be the reason they conceived faster the later times or just dumb luck. The first child might also have been more demanding and therefore created a naturally longer space by keeping its parents busy. 

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I admit that I think the timed intercourse study may be closer to fundies in the first year because I imagine a couple of virgins in love are having plenty of sex (once they get the hang of it). So having sex all the time is the same as "timed intercourse."

The results of this study aren't actually far off from the stats that are just people having unprotected sex for a year without "timed intercourse).

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My husband and I were "quiverful" in the fertility meaning of the word, leaving our child spacing up to the Lord. We used BC the first few years we were married, and then took nearly 2 yrs to conceive our first. The rest of my birth intervals are all over the place, the closest is just less that 18m and the longest 7yrs. There were no intimacy issues, no prolonged periods of abstinence, etc. I mostly felt "content" after every baby, but always wanted more. Even after we decided for medical reasons to close up shop after the last baby I was sad for at least a year another baby was never going to be a possibility (and I was over 40). But there are definitely times I'm glad for my relatively smaller family (6kids) compared to many of our friends. I see some of the younger ladies in the church having honeymoon babies and subsequent babies every year and they mostly seem sad and overwhelmed. I suspect if I had been more fertile and had 6 kids in 7 yrs of marriage instead of 22,  I would have felt differently about being quiverful and having babies. But there were also times when my friends were having a baby every other year and I didn't and I felt that it must mean God didn't find me worthy of being a mom to many. Even typing "mom to many" reminds me that there was an email list for "MOMYS" moms of many young siblings, which you could only join as "read only" unless you had a certain number of children close in age. 4 kids under 4, or something like that. Had people assume all the time that we must use both control, and when I had that 7yr gap I had many people ask if she was a "change of heart baby". I also had high risk complicated pregnancies and surgical births, which were also looked down on it our community. And after I had a tubal ligation I had someone tell me directly that it was a sin. (And many other imply it) So judgement is high within the community of "letting God choose family size".

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10 hours ago, crawfishgirl said:

I used to think of Kyle as a male name.  However, after watching a female Kyle on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, and not currently knowing anyone named Kyle in real life, I am starting to think of it as more of an androgynous name (of course, this is just my opinion).  The Maxwells would be horrified to know that Joseph's "first born son" could share a name with females.

I remember the Kyle from the Real Housewives as a child star on Little House on the Prairie. To this day, she is the only female Kyle I've ever heard of. There were some boys named Kyle in my high school and then there's the Kyle from South Park. For Generation Xers, it was sort of a trendy-but-not-hugely-popular baby name for boys.

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8 hours ago, Anonymousguest said:

My husband and I were "quiverful" in the fertility meaning of the word, leaving our child spacing up to the Lord. We used BC the first few years we were married, and then took nearly 2 yrs to conceive our first. The rest of my birth intervals are all over the place, the closest is just less that 18m and the longest 7yrs. There were no intimacy issues, no prolonged periods of abstinence, etc. I mostly felt "content" after every baby, but always wanted more. Even after we decided for medical reasons to close up shop after the last baby I was sad for at least a year another baby was never going to be a possibility (and I was over 40). But there are definitely times I'm glad for my relatively smaller family (6kids) compared to many of our friends. I see some of the younger ladies in the church having honeymoon babies and subsequent babies every year and they mostly seem sad and overwhelmed. I suspect if I had been more fertile and had 6 kids in 7 yrs of marriage instead of 22,  I would have felt differently about being quiverful and having babies. But there were also times when my friends were having a baby every other year and I didn't and I felt that it must mean God didn't find me worthy of being a mom to many. Even typing "mom to many" reminds me that there was an email list for "MOMYS" moms of many young siblings, which you could only join as "read only" unless you had a certain number of children close in age. 4 kids under 4, or something like that. Had people assume all the time that we must use both control, and when I had that 7yr gap I had many people ask if she was a "change of heart baby". I also had high risk complicated pregnancies and surgical births, which were also looked down on it our community. And after I had a tubal ligation I had someone tell me directly that it was a sin. (And many other imply it) So judgement is high within the community of "letting God choose family size".

Thanks for sharing your personal experience, it was very interesting. While it has not been my own choice I don't find the general idea of leaving it up to god a horrible idea in itself. If you are willing to see when such a choice is truly dangerous and readjust like you did it is also a different story. I also think in a sense you were lucky, six is a manageable number and yours were spread out over a long period and that helps a lot. My parents did use birth control but also wanted a big family so we are 5 spread over 18 years and I cannot say I have any real drawbacks from coming from a bigger family but I think that when children come every year or 18 months for 15+ years it really is another story. 

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I'm always amused when people speculate that it would take time for no touch courtship people to have sex after marriage. I'm guessing about an hour. They've been brought up to court, brought up to submit, brought up to birth an army for God. People, past generations often had little contact, too, but they got with it on the wedding night. lol

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42 minutes ago, IReallyAmHopewell said:

I'm always amused when people speculate that it would take time for no touch courtship people to have sex after marriage. I'm guessing about an hour. They've been brought up to court, brought up to submit, brought up to birth an army for God. People, past generations often had little contact, too, but they got with it on the wedding night. lol

It isn't all speculation, a lot of people who have left this type of environment do testify that this sometimes happen. That doesn't say that it happens for everyone.

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54 minutes ago, IReallyAmHopewell said:

I'm always amused when people speculate that it would take time for no touch courtship people to have sex after marriage. I'm guessing about an hour. They've been brought up to court, brought up to submit, brought up to birth an army for God. People, past generations often had little contact, too, but they got with it on the wedding night. lol

So we're the monarchs of Europe. But some of their marriages took a little time to consummate. 

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56 minutes ago, IReallyAmHopewell said:

I'm always amused when people speculate that it would take time for no touch courtship people to have sex after marriage. I'm guessing about an hour. They've been brought up to court, brought up to submit, brought up to birth an army for God. People, past generations often had little contact, too, but they got with it on the wedding night. lol

People of past generations usually had a lot more contact than modern fundies, and they didn't always get with it on the wedding night.

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You can liken no touch long distance fundie courtships to some arranged marriages of the past. And no, not all were consummated an hour after they were married...

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It’s been mentioned on the blog that Melanie has been on progesterone for her pregnancies. Reading about it, lack of progesterone can be a problem when trying to conceive. They may well have gone to a doctor and discovered this. We don’t know what exactly was wrong with Susannah so I don’t know if that has anything to do with it. As Melanie has had five difficult (yet successful) pregnancies, I don’t know if the progesterone had any effect, she may have other issues we just don’t know about. 

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1 hour ago, IReallyAmHopewell said:

I'm always amused when people speculate that it would take time for no touch courtship people to have sex after marriage. I'm guessing about an hour. They've been brought up to court, brought up to submit, brought up to birth an army for God. People, past generations often had little contact, too, but they got with it on the wedding night. lol

 

2 minutes ago, Anonymousguest said:

It happens. There was a Christian sex site with a "problems with intamacy" forum and they had a whole section devoted to unable to consummate marriage. It was pretty busy. Lots of young couple aren't able to have "real" piv sex. Some of the couples, quite a few actually, were seeking help because they had been married for awhile (sometimes years) and wanted to get pregnant. 

Eta I have no idea how I managed to quote myself, I've tried to fix it but can't get rid of the quote box, lol (mobile posting)

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I also think of other cultures where there is no touch, yet the marriage must be consummated..... 

My point isn't to upset anyone though

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12 minutes ago, IReallyAmHopewell said:

I also think of other cultures where there is no touch, yet the marriage must be consummated..... 

My point isn't to upset anyone though

We’re actually not speculating, though. This is reality. There are countless stories out there of people raised in a conservative Christian framework really struggling to make the transition to being sexually active after marriage. And then there are those who weren’t necessarily struggling but just decided to take it slow. It’s pretty common. And don’t worry, I highly doubt you upset anyone.

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2 hours ago, mango_fandango said:

It’s been mentioned on the blog that Melanie has been on progesterone for her pregnancies. Reading about it, lack of progesterone can be a problem when trying to conceive. They may well have gone to a doctor and discovered this. We don’t know what exactly was wrong with Susannah so I don’t know if that has anything to do with it. As Melanie has had five difficult (yet successful) pregnancies, I don’t know if the progesterone had any effect, she may have other issues we just don’t know about. 

that seems to be a bigger problem then I ever realized. I believe Erin Bates Paine had the same issue which is why she miscarried her first few pregnancy's and I also think Kelly Bates had the issue in her later pregnancy's. 

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17 minutes ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

that seems to be a bigger problem then I ever realized. I believe Erin Bates Paine had the same issue which is why she miscarried her first few pregnancy's and I also think Kelly Bates had the issue in her later pregnancy's. 

Erin Paine miscarried her first pregnancies due to an undiagnosed clotting disorder, but Kelly Bates definitely had to take progesterone in her later pregnancies. I think progesterone deficiencies are a fairly common cause of difficulty conceiving/early miscarriages.

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2 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Erin Paine miscarried her first pregnancies due to an undiagnosed clotting disorder, but Kelly Bates definitely had to take progesterone in her later pregnancies. I think progesterone deficiencies are a fairly common cause of difficulty conceiving/early miscarriages.

thank you for the correction. don't know why I thought Erin had the low progesterone. 

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I checked Baby Name Voyager, and Kyle was super popular in the 80s and 90s (which I'm not judging, my 2nd grader has a name you almost see exclusively given to 80s babies, now middle-aged).  If they wanted to be trendier, they could have gone with Kyler, which seems to be gaining popularity.  

So odd the way one letter can change a name and it'll be popular, but others don't work.  Tyler, Skyler, Kyler, but no Fyler, Gyler, or Byler.  (I guess it's not that odd.  Fyler is making me giggle.)

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15 minutes ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

 

So odd the way one letter can change a name and it'll be popular, but others don't work.  Tyler, Skyler, Kyler, but no Fyler, Gyler, or Byler.  (I guess it's not that odd.  Fyler is making me giggle.)

Well, thanks for ruining it for me. I was going to name my next boy Fyler. Fyler Meramiah. Now I'll have to go with ZYLER. *sigh* I guess I'll change the mddle name too. Zyler Jisiah. 

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39 minutes ago, LilMissMetaphor said:

I checked Baby Name Voyager, and Kyle was super popular in the 80s and 90s (which I'm not judging, my 2nd grader has a name you almost see exclusively given to 80s babies, now middle-aged).  If they wanted to be trendier, they could have gone with Kyler, which seems to be gaining popularity.  

So odd the way one letter can change a name and it'll be popular, but others don't work.  Tyler, Skyler, Kyler, but no Fyler, Gyler, or Byler.  (I guess it's not that odd.  Fyler is making me giggle.)

80s babies are now middle aged?! Excuse me while I go sob quietly in a corner... :pb_lol:

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