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Dillards 51: Making Play Look Complicated


Jellybean

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I have to say isn't it a stretch to say using another language is cultural appropriation?  Maybe I'm wrong but that just seems unreasonable.  There are huge benefits to using a second language, particularly with young children (Israel and Sam).  I don't know that they are actually doing it (probably not) but thats hardly appropriation, unless I totally don't get what it means.  

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1 hour ago, ViolaSebastian said:

My mother does the 'favorite daughter, favorite son' thing. The difference there, though, is that she has just one son and just one daughter. :pb_lol:

My husband does this too, same situation :)

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5 hours ago, KelseyAnn said:

I know when I was kid growing up in an abusive household, things like this were my favorite thing to hear. It didn't make me feel like a predestined for a miserable life or anything like that. Nope, not at all. In fact, when some teachers even told me that, it didn't make me feel like not working on bettering myself. 

I'm with you there. Heard it from teachers while my older brother was in jail. I wound up in the National Honor Society, got a college scholarship and was published in a national magazine while still in HS. Thankfully some teachers didn't share that belief.

Meanwhile, at my advanced age, I can say that not all of the precious little children of the vaunted professional class turned out to be stellar.

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2 hours ago, jakesykora said:

Many families with multiple grandparents alive often use a variation of grandma/grandpa in another language that reflects some part of their family heritage (or if a family has lived overseas somewhere, where they lived) like Oma/Opa, etc.

Maybe given the Duggars are obviously a family where each kid is going to have like 40 aunts/uncles once the original Duggar kids get married, she's wanting to not be "Aunt Jill" and be just "Tia" instead?

Plus, last we saw they were still using "Papi" for Derick with Israel, obviously also using the Spanish word instead of an English variation of dad/daddy/etc.

I'd let that side if they were 1st generation children of immigrants but they're not. They're two people who tried to play white savior in a foreign country for a little while.

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2 hours ago, justoneoftwo said:

I have to say isn't it a stretch to say using another language is cultural appropriation?  Maybe I'm wrong but that just seems unreasonable.  There are huge benefits to using a second language, particularly with young children (Israel and Sam).  I don't know that they are actually doing it (probably not) but thats hardly appropriation, unless I totally don't get what it means.  

I think most of us would agree it’s not necessarily appropriation under normal circumstances. I casually toss some Spanish words around when speaking to my daughter even though I’m nowhere near fluent or of Hispanic/Spanish descent. I just like the idea of exposing her to other cultures and languages, despite the big limitations in my way. However, with Jil we're talking about a young woman who ran off to a Spanish speaking country with her husband and infant in order to play white savior with the local Catholic population. I don’t think Jill necessarily means ill and I do think her wording choice had something to do with Israel more than anything, but given their history it does leave a bit of an appropriation taste for me. 

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It depends on the language, dialect, and context . I'd say Jill's use of "tia" isn't cultural appropriation. 

She's just trying to be a tryndy global citizen. 

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I have to admit I couldn't figure out what favoritetia meant. And me with A level Spanish. Hangs head in shame.

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37 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

I have to admit I couldn't figure out what favoritetia meant. And me with A level Spanish. Hangs head in shame.

Favor It Etia is confusing, isn't it? lol

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13 hours ago, singsingsing said:

Jill and Derick are unusually adept at making themselves seem like enormous assholes. Somehow they manage to come across as incredibly unpleasant, arrogant, obnoxious, competitive, miserable, and desperate all at once with very little effort.

Well, they say everybody got talents :my_biggrin:

But I agree with all the sentiments above. At least make it a full Spanish phrase if you want to appear that worldly. She probably didn't know what that would be, though.

Husband and I are German, studied+lived in London for a couple of years, now are back in Germany. We post most of our social media stuff in English (because half of our friends are from all over the world, so English makes more sense than German). We also tend to use many English words in everyday situations and I admit that I sometimes can't think of the equivalent German for an English expression.  Sometimes friends will mock us for that :my_biggrin: But (!) I earn my living as a translator and didn't play pretend-missionary abroad for just a couple of months.  

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Jill probably meant well with her post but it was more about her than her sister/daughter. Joy looks happy in the pictures and I am glad her and Austin waited to announce his birth.

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I don’t think Jill ever means ILL. She’s often awkward, over enthusiastic, over her head, over whelmed but she has basically a good heart. Not a popular opinion here but she is ultimately harmless.  

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3 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

I don’t think Jill ever means ILL. She’s often awkward, over enthusiastic, over her head, over whelmed but she has basically a good heart. Not a popular opinion here but she is ultimately harmless.  

I’m not sure if Jill is ever consciously malicious, but I can say for sure that she’s definitely not harmless. No fundamentalist is harmless.

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4 hours ago, DillyDally said:

Husband and I are German, studied+lived in London for a couple of years, now are back in Germany. We post most of our social media stuff in English (because half of our friends are from all over the world, so English makes more sense than German). We also tend to use many English words in everyday situations and I admit that I sometimes can't think of the equivalent German for an English expression.  Sometimes friends will mock us for that :my_biggrin: But (!) I earn my living as a translator and didn't play pretend-missionary abroad for just a couple of months.  

That's called code-switching and is completely normal for fully bilingual people. Which the Dillards are very much not. :pb_lol:

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1 minute ago, singsingsing said:

I’m not sure if Jill is ever consciously malicious, but I can say for sure that she’s definitely not harmless. No fundamentalist is harmless.

I agree. I feel more sympathy for her than some of the others because I know what it’s like to be a people pleaser and to come across as a bit awkward sometimes. Her personality was well suited for her upbringing, but it also likely worked against her as well in some ways too. It’s easy to take advantage of someone like her in a culture like the one she was raised in. I don’t think she intends to do harm, but intent doesn’t mean much if harm is the result anyways - especially if you don’t apologize and learn from the experience, which Jill hasn’t appeared to have done at this point. 

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12 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

I have to admit I couldn't figure out what favoritetia meant. And me with A level Spanish. Hangs head in shame.

You might have seen it earlier, had she used the actual Spanish for "favorite" as well.  I'd sure have been more impressed had her entire phrase been in Spanish.

11 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I’m not sure if Jill is ever consciously malicious, but I can say for sure that she’s definitely not harmless. No fundamentalist is harmless.

Jill, IMO, is never going to be happy because she will constantly be seeking external validation. The scramble for attention seems to worry her more than most of her siblings. She'll continue to use this "favorite tia" stance, I'm afraid, till she's announcing, "Your favorite auntie/sister/daughter" has arrived" whenever she shows up someplace. We may not see it because she won't be on the show, but she'll be grabbing for attention and approval all her life. People will be very tired of her.

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29 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

I don’t think Jill ever means ILL. She’s often awkward, over enthusiastic, over her head, over whelmed but she has basically a good heart. Not a popular opinion here but she is ultimately harmless.  

Her intentions may be harmless, but their consequences are not. Prejudice against LGBT people, dysfunctional parenting, botched midwifery, reinforcing the fundie patriarchy...all these things, if they were to be true, are very harmful indeed.

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Jill herself can’t to much for or against those things except the midwifery bit and the parenting. She can’t control others  prejudice or support for patriarchy. That’s not her place or her job.What she can do is raise her children to do better. 

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I use Franglais on occasion and I'm not French or close to being bilingual. However, if I'm interacting with someone who speaks French well or as a first language, I would apologize for how bad my French is. 

And I am my father's second favourite daughter. Unless, the cat is bad, then I get to be first! :my_biggrin:

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The tia thing irks me, unnecessarily. My sisters don't use it with my kids, and we are all fully bilingual and dual Guatemalan/Canadian. But even we don't use it because we aren't living in Guatemala anymore, and, as pasty white gringas, it does smack of cultural appropriation. That does not mean we don't speak a weird version of Spanglish/Franglish/Deuschlesh amongst ourselves, but we try not to do it in public. 

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My sister married into an Italian family and so she is called Zia. When I'm speaking to my niece about her other relatives, I use Zio/Zia out of respect for their cultural. My niece calls me though auntie, and sticks to Canadian terms for our side of the family. 

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17 hours ago, karen77 said:

My husband does this too, same situation :)

My FIL used to say to each and every  grand kid "you're the best, girl/boy." So when the GGKs are born, my SIL gives each one a wall plaque with the saying and my FIL's name as a memorial. 

1 hour ago, viii said:

My sister married into an Italian family and so she is called Zia. When I'm speaking to my niece about her other relatives, I use Zio/Zia out of respect for their cultural. My niece calls me though auntie, and sticks to Canadian terms for our side of the family. 

My grand daughter (Half Ecuadorian who lives in EC) calls my son Tio D.  My hubs is Papi C., her own dad is either Papi or Daddy O. Mommy is mommy and I am Mimi.

2 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

Jill herself can’t to much for or against those things except the midwifery bit and the parenting. She can’t control others  prejudice or support for patriarchy. That’s not her place or her job.What she can do is raise her children to do better. 

Well, we keep wishing for every generation to do better...

I may find Derick's views very, very objectionable, but  I do applaud his (well maybe it wasn't totally his choice) moving his family off the stage. Kids deserve better.

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When I was having my recent surgery,, one Filipino nurse in particular constantly called me, "Auntie (my name)" It was a little off putting, but I figured it was meant as a respectful term, as I was old enough to be his grannie.. and since the words "Ms" and "ma'am" don't seem to have a place there. I wonder, though, if the tables were turned, how his REAL grannie would feel being called "auntie" by ME!

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18 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

When I was having my recent surgery,, one Filipino nurse in particular constantly called me, "Auntie (my name)" It was a little off putting, but I figured it was meant as a respectful term, as I was old enough to be his grannie.. and since the words "Ms" and "ma'am" don't seem to have a place there. I wonder, though, if the tables were turned, how his REAL grannie would feel being called "auntie" by ME!

I can't swear to the Philippines, but Auntie is an honorific for older women in quite a few parts of the world. I see that out of context it might not have the same connotations, I don't know.

My grandfather is in a stroke ward at the moment (:my_cry:), and there is one West African nurse in particular who calls him Papa. I don't know exactly how he feels about it, as he can't speak, but it really reassures his 80-something white Londoner wife. She takes it as an indication that he is being properly cared for.

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51 minutes ago, AprilQuilt said:

I can't swear to the Philippines, but Auntie is an honorific for older women in quite a few parts of the world. I see that out of context it might not have the same connotations, I don't know.

My grandfather is in a stroke ward at the moment (:my_cry:), and there is one West African nurse in particular who calls him Papa. I don't know exactly how he feels about it, as he can't speak, but it really reassures his 80-something white Londoner wife. She takes it as an indication that he is being properly cared for.

At my mother's nursing home, the first Saturday of the month a local Buddhist church comes to perform and entertain the residents. They call all the woman "Grandmother" and all the men "Grandfather". They are Asian. 

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