Dillards 51: Making Play Look Complicated

[SapphireSlytherin]

Maybe by "Jews who are not" he means Jews who are not Jesus, which is, you know, every Jew but Jesus. ??

LOL

[nastyhobbitses]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

IMO-if their decisions weren't at the minimum suspect, we likely would have heard more of the details...they are attention seekers. Can you imagine a People spread on a Duggar Nicu stay????

Well, People, TLC, and the Duggars acted like Josie was the first baby to ever need to be in NICU (and with all the cameras and people milling about to view the miracle child, the only baby in that NICU) and pimped her out like a prize pony the second she got scooped out of Michelle, so...

Yeah, I'm guessing that Jill and/or Derick and/or their midwife royally fucked up, causing the NICU stint; otherwise, Jill and Derick are addicted enough to attention that they'd turn Sam's NICU stay into the drama of the century. And somehow blame transgender people for Sam's medical problems, IDK. 

[Crazy Enough to Join]

3 minutes ago, nastyhobbitses said:

Well, People, TLC, and the Duggars acted like Josie was the first baby to ever need to be in NICU (and with all the cameras and people milling about to view the miracle child, the only baby in that NICU) and pimped her out like a prize pony the second she got scooped out of Michelle, so...

Yeah, I'm guessing that Jill and/or Derick and/or their midwife royally fucked up, causing the NICU stint; otherwise, Jill and Derick are addicted enough to attention that they'd turn Sam's NICU stay into the drama of the century. And somehow blame transgender people for Sam's medical problems, IDK. 

Or maybe Jill actually cares about her babies and was super upset during the time. Or maybe she was mourning the dream of having VBACs and as many pregnancies as her mom. Maybe Derrick was actually looking out for her by keeping the birth private. I know the dillards are not as popular as other duggar couples here on FJ. But Derrick does seem to me to genuinely care about Jill, as much as he may hate other people. 
    I think it's very BEC to blame Jill for having difficult deliveries and sick babies. 

[justoneoftwo]

3 minutes ago, Crazy Enough to Join said:

    I think it's very BEC to blame Jill for having difficult deliveries and sick babies. 

It may be unpopular but I really don't think its BEC.  Jill made unsafe decisions because she wanted her dream delivery.  She put her child and her health at risk, and should have known better.  I blame people who had the ability to get proper care and chose not to because they thought they were special or their experience was more important than their baby's health.

[JenniferJuniper]

4 hours ago, Buzzard said:

More likely there is a family trust that got all the money, and then the trust paid him.  Keep saying whatever you have to tell yourself to convince yourself that you're clean as a whistle, D'wreck.  You benefited from the media whoring.  Call a spade a spade and criticize the system, but dont lie about your involvement in it.

We've oft speculated about the payment arrangements.   Money is usually at the heart of this sort of stuff.  Is it possible Jim Bob got the sonnys-in-law to agree upon marrying his daughters that he'd get all the cash and would dole out as he saw fit?  He's a complete control freak and they are his girls after all.   Maybe Sam's birth story was such a blockbuster (2 weeks in NICU.  What up?) Derick refused to allow TLC to cover it without direct and perhaps substantial compensation?

I have no idea but it usually all about following the money.

 

[TatiFish9]

I believe TLC initiated the firing. No way Jill was leaving the cash cow she's come to love. However, I think they both may have seen the benefits in finally being free of their association with TLC. 

Derrick constantly denies his involvement with TLC and child exploit- for-pay, but I don't think I've ever saw him specifically say Jill has not been involved.

I have long suspected this couple has major issues. Derrick is selfish and Jill is most likely manipulative based on how she was raised to be passive in her approach and bet this is reflexive behavior.

I think they are learning together and sticking out this not so great, strongly suggested aka slightly arranged, marriage. They won't be the first couple to find themselves down a few shit holes and they won't be the last.

I agree with someone up thread who pointed out the major shifts Derrick has been enduring. He is responding like someone with PTSD. The more they can move away from the control of the extended family the better. Maybe being fired from TLC is the best thing to happen with this couple and their children. I hope they get counseling. 

[singsingsing]

I personally want to be very careful about judging Jill for whatever happened with Sam. We know some of the details of what happened with Izzy - enough to safely say that Jill made some pretty irresponsible decisions that may have contributed to the outcome. But we really have no idea what happened with Sam, beyond the fact that she had a repeat C-section and (now) that he was in the NICU for two weeks. Maybe she made some bad decisions, or maybe not. The vast majority of babies in the NICU are not there because their mothers did anything wrong. Given Jill's history, I don't think it's baseless to speculate, but I do think it's crossing the line to assume that we know what happened, and that it was her fault.

[VelociRapture]

47 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I personally want to be very careful about judging Jill for whatever happened with Sam. We know some of the details of what happened with Izzy - enough to safely say that Jill made some pretty irresponsible decisions that may have contributed to the outcome. But we really have no idea what happened with Sam, beyond the fact that she had a repeat C-section and (now) that he was in the NICU for two weeks. Maybe she made some bad decisions, or maybe not. The vast majority of babies in the NICU are not there because their mothers did anything wrong. Given Jill's history, I don't think it's baseless to speculate, but I do think it's crossing the line to assume that we know what happened, and that it was her fault.

Exactly this. It’s definitely not out of the question that they made stupid choices, but it’s not a given either. Having gone through the NICU experience myself, I know how horrible it can be to think about it even months or years later. I still get emotional, cry sometimes, and occasionally get panicky remembering my daughter’s time in NICU and it’s been 15 months. So I really hope people proceed with caution on this - I hate what they stand for and believe, but Jill doesn’t deserve to be blamed for anything at this point either.

@Bad WolfDerick was with Walmart for around 15 months. He was already there when they were engaged in March 2014 and he announced he was leaving in June or July of 2015. 

[HarleyQuinn]

Okay 1) dWRECK should not try to contact Jazz in any way. The only reason he'd try is to convert her, full stop. He's a bully and Jazz doesn't need that.

2) given Jill's history, imo there's nothing wrong with speculating about the NICU stay. She's made bad decisions before and they would've cashed in on pity already of they could

3) he's such a child. No way he could handle any type of serious debate.

[patsymae]

1 hour ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Maybe by "Jews who are not" he means Jews who are not Jesus, which is, you know, every Jew but Jesus. ??

LOL

I missed that and am wondering also. What is a Jew who is not...? 

[Ace3]

7 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Okay 1) dWRECK should not try to contact Jazz in any way. The only reason he'd try is to convert her, full stop. He's a bully and Jazz doesn't need that.

What struck me was Derick saying he had tried to reach out to him...um, I can tell you exactly why SHE might not want to get in contact with you. That right there ended any thought that he might have real concern for Jazz or her well being. If you are still being a dick and purposely using the wrong pronouns for her, I am going to assume you don't really care that much. (end rant)

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

Exactly this. It’s definitely not out of the question that they made stupid choices, but it’s not a given either. Having gone through the NICU experience myself, I know how horrible it can be to think about it even months or years later. I still get emotional, cry sometimes, and occasionally get panicky remembering my daughter’s time in NICU and it’s been 15 months. So I really hope people proceed with caution on this - I hate what they stand for and believe, but Jill doesn’t deserve to be blamed for anything at this point either.

@Bad WolfDerick was with Walmart for around 15 months. He was already there when they were engaged in March 2014 and he announced he was leaving in June or July of 2015. 

IIRC, Derick announced his resignation before the molestation was revealed, so in May.

I also think Jill should be held to a higher standard. She does have a background in pregnancy and child birth. She did attend to laboring mothers and did pass a lay MW certification test-

Jill is not given the "good samaritan" free pass.

[VelociRapture]

3 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

IIRC, Derick announced his resignation before the molestation was revealed, so in May.

I also think Jill should be held to a higher standard. She does have a background in pregnancy and child birth. She did attend to laboring mothers and did pass a lay MW certification test-

Jill is not given the "good samaritan" free pass.

I never said she gets a free pass. What I did say is that we don’t know enough to pass actual judgements. Speculating is fine (and expected given her choices with Izzy), but I think we should be mindful not to make definitive statements accusing her of anything.

And early June is the earliest I’ve seen articles mentioning that Derick left Walmart. It’s possible that he had given notice in May and had already left by then though. His LinkedIn lists him working there from February 2014 until June 2015, so if we trust that then he was there for about 15 or 16 months.

[Ivycoveredtower]

4 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Derrick does not strike me as a job type person. Or rather, he does something for a year or so and then does something else. I suppose he could always help with whatever the howler-men are doing as employment, but I could see him being more of a hindrance than a help if any real work is happening. The most likely scenario is that he’ll start another “ministry” and start traveling again by the end of the year.

the howler men work on JIm Bobs property's and car lot so Derick may want to curtail his talking if he hopes to get a job with them. 

3 hours ago, Crazy Enough to Join said:

Or maybe Jill actually cares about her babies and was super upset during the time. Or maybe she was mourning the dream of having VBACs and as many pregnancies as her mom. Maybe Derrick was actually looking out for her by keeping the birth private. I know the dillards are not as popular as other duggar couples here on FJ. But Derrick does seem to me to genuinely care about Jill, as much as he may hate other people. 
    I think it's very BEC to blame Jill for having difficult deliveries and sick babies. 

JIll isn't blamed for having difficult births and delivery's Jill is blamed for putting her babies at risk and rushing to the hosptial at the last second becuase she just has to have that perfect fundy home birth. 

[VelociRapture]

8 minutes ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

JIll isn't blamed for having difficult births and delivery's Jill is blamed for putting her babies at risk and rushing to the hosptial at the last second becuase she just has to have that perfect fundy home birth. 

I agree, but again we don’t know what happened with Sam’s birth. All we know is there was another long labor, another c-section, and a two week NICU stay for Sam. I find it very likely that they made more poor choices this time, but we have no clue if that’s true or not and I really think we should avoid stating it as fact for that reason.

[bananabread]

Of course, we don't know (and probably won't ever know) for sure whether Jill acted negligently. But considering the fact that Samuel was clearly not premature + the weird silence/social media posts after his birth + Jill's routine with Israel (castor oil, laboring at home for days, and not going to the hospital until there were signs of distress, and then STILL trying to labor naturally at the hospital) + how vocal she was about wanting a VBAC (I think trying to will one into existence) = I'm inclined to believe her decisions contributed to Samuel's difficulties. Hopefully there's no permanent damage. I personally find Samuel to be the cutest fundie baby, I just love him.

I think it's tempting to say that getting Jill away from the Duggar clan is a good thing, but think about it: Jill is a people pleaser. She was clearly very close to her parents, more so than some of the other kids in my opinion, and loved her buddy team. Jill hates being alone, and needs attention and approval. She is a follower more than leader. She likes learning new things and meeting new people. These are all valid personality traits. And I can't imagine how she must feel now that her husband is basically bashing her parents and upbringing for all the world to see, attracting the harsh criticism of millions of people, and she's left in the house to care for her kids alone. I honestly think she has less freedom now than she did in Duggarland. Sure, she can wear pants and get a nose ring. But I do believe that for all their flaws, JB and Michelle love their children and did what they thought was best for them; they were affectionate to Jill, encouraged her to pursue fundie-approved hobbies and studies, cultivated a strong family culture, and usually spoke kindly and positively to others (even when they disagreed with them). What has D-Wreck done besides snark on the interwebz, bounce from job to job, drag his wife and kid to Sintral Amuuurica, isolate Jill from the community she knew and loved, fail to encourage her in learning Spanish (or anything else), and leave her at home to raise his kids? Since he took Jill back to SA when she was miserable and pregnant, with no emergency plan beyond "pray for no premature labor," I have not been able to believe D-Wreck really cares about Jill. And I don't think I ever will.

[2manyKidzzz]

I think he cares about Jill but is very selfish and self absorbed. So what we see is the best he can do. I find it very sad if he is keeping Jill from her family. That is very controlling if true and scary to me. They are her family warts and all. And her siblings .......she should not be separated from them. We don’t know what is really going on day to day just that he is mouthing off and we don’t see her on CO. Because if he is keeping her from her family.....scary controlling,`

[JenniferJuniper]

Until we know more facts, I agree that no blame should be cast in any direction.

But he was full term and otherwise appears fine.  Some sort of birth accident appears likely, and knowing that Jill relies on God and assumed Jesus would help her get the birth she specifically wanted, it may be that pure stupidity on the part of Sam's parents is still on the possibility table. 

[AtlanticTug]

8 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Here’s an article listing some of the reasons a NICU stay can be needed sometimes:

https://www.babycenter.com/0_common-conditions-treated-in-the-neonatal-intensive-care-uni_10300041.bc

It's possible they acted stupidly and something went wrong as a result. It’s also possible (though I think less likely) they didn’t and something went wrong anyways.

Most of those pertain to preemies, though, not giant full-term babies. I had a preemie in the NICU so I'm pretty familiar with the typical reasons for their admission, based on gestation, etc.

My newborn nephew, born at term and otherwise healthy developed a UTI (they presume likely related to the circumcision) which turned into sepsis while they were trying to figure out the source of the fever and he ended up in the NICU after birth on antibiotics. But even there they were keen on having him discharged, and the rule was that his blood counts had to be in the normal range for 72 consecutive hours before they would discharge him on oral antibiotics which he'd continue for a total of 2 weeks. So he ended up in the NICU for about 7 days while they tried one antibiotic, then a second when that one wasn't effective and finally he was sent home to be syringed.

[JoiseyGoil]

How much does 2 weeks in the NICU cost? Do the Dillards participate in Medicaid/Obamacare?

[Ivycoveredtower]

1 hour ago, bananabread said:

 

I think it's tempting to say that getting Jill away from the Duggar clan is a good thing, but think about it: Jill is a people pleaser. She was clearly very close to her parents, more so than some of the other kids in my opinion, and loved her buddy team. Jill hates being alone, and needs attention and approval. She is a follower more than leader. She likes learning new things and meeting new people. These are all valid personality traits. And I can't imagine how she must feel now that her husband is basically bashing her parents and upbringing for all the world to see, attracting the harsh criticism of millions of people, and she's left in the house to care for her kids alone. I honestly think she has less freedom now than she did in Duggarland. Sure, she can wear pants and get a nose ring. But I do believe that for all their flaws, JB and Michelle love their children and did what they thought was best for them; they were affectionate to Jill, encouraged her to pursue fundie-approved hobbies and studies, cultivated a strong family culture, and usually spoke kindly and positively to others (even when they disagreed with them). What has D-Wreck done besides snark on the interwebz, bounce from job to job, drag his wife and kid to Sintral Amuuurica, isolate Jill from the community she knew and loved, fail to encourage her in learning Spanish (or anything else), and leave her at home to raise his kids? Since he took Jill back to SA when she was miserable and pregnant, with no emergency plan beyond "pray for no premature labor," I have not been able to believe D-Wreck really cares about Jill. And I don't think I ever will.

thinking of one of the early special's when JIm Bob and Michelle are talking about the kids and Michelle says something like Jill never has scuffed shoes.

the way they talked about Jill she had to be perfect the perfect daughter the perfect sister and I'm sure she thought the perfect wife and mother. yet she had hard complicated births her husband has gotten her kicked off her family's tv show and honestly by the time she had her own kids I think she was just too burned out to care. she still trys to play the perfect mom on Social Media but whenever I see a picture of her with those kids it just seems like she's using them as a prop to show off her "perfect life" not like she views them as these individuals to cherish and raise. (I do think Jill loves her son's in her own way I just don't think she can handle being a mother and used up her real mothering on her buddy group.) 

[JillyO]

Stupid job is making me way late to the party, but:

I love how Derick is trying to gaslight literally millions of people. Dude, there's two years' worth of TLC footage of your son. Millions of viewers did not just suddenly forget. Nice try though.

[JenniferJuniper]

20 minutes ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

the way they talked about Jill she had to be perfect the perfect daughter the perfect sister and I'm sure she thought the perfect wife and mother. yet she had hard complicated births her husband has gotten her kicked off her family's tv show and honestly by the time she had her own kids I think she was just too burned out to care. she still trys to play the perfect mom on Social Media but whenever I see a picture of her with those kids it just seems like she's using them as a prop to show off her "perfect life" not like she views them as these individuals to cherish and raise.

There's definitely a huge difference between the "feel" of Jessa's social media and Jill's.   Jessa comes off as darn near perfect mom with a helpful husband and adorable kids always ready for their close-ups.  Jill's photos are always off-kilter in some way.   And she's married to an ignorant pig.

You cannot really tell what someone's life is like from social media, but coupled with what we know about what Jill has gone through in recent years, I would not be surprised if she feels defeated, and maybe a little jealous of her sister who appears to have it far more together.

[Crazy Enough to Join]

6 hours ago, singsingsing said:

I personally want to be very careful about judging Jill for whatever happened with Sam. We know some of the details of what happened with Izzy - enough to safely say that Jill made some pretty irresponsible decisions that may have contributed to the outcome.

I think we also have to remember that Jill was under a TON of pressure to have a VBAC. Her whole family's theology depended on being able to have a VBAC since 19 c-sections isn't possible. Plenty of young women have chosen risky home births while not under as much pressure as Jill. By all appearances, mom and baby are doing great now and I am hopeful that this has been a real growing experience for both her and Derrick. Now if she tries a homebirth for baby #3, then I'll fully agree with judging her.

[marmalade]

I found this tweet particularly interesting. He had to have had insurance while at WalMart, right? Even with a high deductable/co-pays, they had no other real expenses other than gas and food at the time. I don't think this pertains to Sammy, since he's still only what,  8 months? But then, the way Derelict parses words, anything's possible, I suppose.