Which fundie change surprised you the most?

[FakePigtails]

@SolomonFundy, that reminds me of the Eclectic Culture Farm blog (http://eclecticculturefarm.blogspot.com, https://www.instagram.com/homemakerang/). They were off the grid on a farm and about to convert to being Amish but now they live in a swanky house. It's fascinating.

[JermajestyDuggar]

21 minutes ago, FakePigtails said:

@SolomonFundy, that reminds me of the Eclectic Culture Farm blog (http://eclecticculturefarm.blogspot.com, https://www.instagram.com/homemakerang/). They were off the grid on a farm and about to convert to being Amish but now they live in a swanky house. It's fascinating.

I think some fundies are just attracted to being different/special/set apart. I think lots of non fundies are like this as well. It's almost like that funny cliche hipster mentality. Once it becaomes mainstream/popular, you aren't as interested in it any longer. So you move on to the next big thing that makes you better and more special than everyone else. Some fundies go deeper and more militant into their fundiedom while others may move on to something else. I see homesteading and off the grid living as once trendy but any are leaving that life behind on that they've had to live that kind of life. Their homesteading blog was only one out of 40. Now there are thousands. They are not special amymore. So why keep up a difficult lifestyle you were only into because it made you special? 

Of course there are homesteaders who got into it because their heart was in it. And those people are still homesteading. 

[Briefly]

18 hours ago, adidas said:

Kristina Carter (makes the duggars look dirty). I’m happy for her and her children. I never would have imagined the difference in her life now, compared to what we thought her future would be like when she was sitting a ruler length away from her fiancée in Arby’s. 

I know, she seemed to be really deeply fundie but after her brother's divorce/girlfriend/girlfriend's baby/remarrying the first wife and then her sister basically being shunned by the church, I think that got her attention.  I think her sister was really treated badly, which was really ridiculous.  I actually think Kristina is a nice person and she seems like a really good mother. I don't think the fundie lifestyle is healthy at all, but she seems to be doing much better.  Although she did post about having anxiety attacks but I think she's getting some help with them. I hope so. I really have high hopes for her, that she and her family will be happy and healthy. (I'm a little rambly, I'm om my 2nd vodka drink!)

[neurogirl]

i'll echo the Whitney Bates sentiment. Yes there's those (admittedly none of our business) changing relationships with her foster/bio families, but the thought was originally that because Whitney was a recent convert/marrying into fundie, she was going to be more fanatical than some others (though this seems to be the opposite reaction to a worldly Duggar husband). And at first, it seemed true, especially since she ditched pants, a job, and had her two kids in very quick succession. 3 years later girl is looking fine, has a job, remodeled a house with her husband, and as of a few weeks ago told the world she was not pregnant and Kaci is already 1.5! Yes she publicly voted for Trump and is very conservative. But I think if Zach can be on board she and the family will become less and less fundie (fundie-lite very probably and even approaching plain conservative, which is to me is living a very mainstream life with beliefs I find horrid) and I'll admit I'm rooting for them, even though Erin and Chad are my pet fundies. Sadly, I don't think Erin and Chad will become less fundie soon even though they could be SO HAPPY if they stop having kids and Erin continues to teach piano/Chad continues to make country chic decorations for their home.

[neurogirl]

For some reason it's not letting me edit my previous entry but for the poster who asked, this blog post http://ingridgraceandaudrey.blogspot.com/2012/06/portrait-of-lady.html describes the Bradricks' marital life - not the wedding which I've heard was a bit of insanity, or the divorce (I should read the bradrick threads) but how for the 5 years the Bradricks had been married at the time of the blogpost, Kelly was treated like shit by the men in her life and went from fundie princess to neglected broodmare real fast.

[JMarie]

Autumn (I think her blog was called Butterfly Kisses?), both for the transformation, and the relative speed of the transformation.

[acheronbeach]

14 hours ago, Briefly said:

I know, she seemed to be really deeply fundie but after her brother's divorce/girlfriend/girlfriend's baby/remarrying the first wife and then her sister basically being shunned by the church, I think that got her attention.  I think her sister was really treated badly, which was really ridiculous.  I actually think Kristina is a nice person and she seems like a really good mother. I don't think the fundie lifestyle is healthy at all, but she seems to be doing much better.  Although she did post about having anxiety attacks but I think she's getting some help with them. I hope so. I really have high hopes for her, that she and her family will be happy and healthy. (I'm a little rambly, I'm om my 2nd vodka drink!)

Considering the "keep sweet" mentality of a lot of fundie Christians, and the general stigma about mental health issues, I was incredibly impressed by Kristina talking openly and honestly about her anxiety.

[fundiefan]

To be honest, none really, actually, truthfully surprise me. When your 'belief' is based on what is dictated to you, you're given no choice, you don't experience any alternative - - - it's all tenuious. If, to any degree, a fundie "flips" - I figure it's normal and natural. And, to be honest, whatever they flip to will change again in a year or two. 

Teenagers have a reputation as "know it alls" and it drives parents to distraction. But, it's normal. Using their own minds, making their own connections, viewing the worldthrough their own lens...of course they have the answer because they never knew there was ever a question. 

With fundies, some marry off to other views, lives, goals, priorities, even in tiny, minute variations....for the first time in their lives, they see and experience life outside what they've been coccooned within. That light bulb goes on and you have wives/mothers who suddenly "see the light". 

While I serioously cheerlead any fundie who "changes", I never take their change for growth. It's growing pains, it's what children go through from roughly 10-20 in the real world. It will change as they change, experience, learn and grow. 

Let's check back with a reformed fundie in 2, 3, 5, 7 years. 

[acheronbeach]

On 2/23/2018 at 7:30 AM, HarleyQuinn said:

@jerkit summed it up nice. I find them to be vile, hateful bigots who judge everyone that isn't a white conservative Christian. I particularly find their homophobia (dWRECK bulling a teenage transgender girl on Twitter) and their desire to convert brown people disgusting.  

I also don't believe the death of his father triggered this. Judging from his mother Cathy's twitter account, dWRECK was raised with these vile beliefs. I think he's just upset because he bought a wife and expected to grift his way around the world, but people didn't like him and his wife can't have eleventy babies like they all thought. Plus, she's a stage 5 clinger, which he likely didn't anticipate. 

This.  Derick's mother Cathy is a Christian fundamentalist with subpar reasoning and communication skills.  She behaves like he's a child and regularly tries to defend him on social media, however, is utterly incapable of any defence more complex than, "You don't understand!"

Derick's posts drip with condescension and loathing of fellow human beings.  His views are similar to lots of fundies, but the tone of everything he posts is miserable and overcompensating.  He is desperately unhappy.  He looks uncomfortable in photos with his children and seems like a shit father.  He described his two year old as "very manipulative."  When he went sledding, he tried to run over a cat.  He recently asked gay people to join him at church - not mentioning that it was the week for a pray-away-the-gay event.  As a married father, he also publicly shat on a fifteen year old child, Jazz Jennings.  

I also suspect that he is jealous of his brothers-in-law, Jeremy and Ben, who have mastered social media, and unlike Derick, know how to buy clothes that fit and how to groom themselves.  When Derick appeared on 19KAC, he was the darling.  Now he's the hideous, melty-faced pariah of the family.  

[Lurky]

The thing about Zsu and Erika and the Dillards' changes is that they were so mean about other people who don't agree with them, and then when they change, they pretend they've always been like that.  Scrubbing blogs etc, and just pretending it's always been this way is ridiculous!   It's not that I expect everyone whose thinking evolves/changes to put up a mea culpa, but when their brand has been "I'm right and you're all wrong", I wish they'd have a little bit of humility about it, especially when their kids have suffered.  I always wonder what Karen and Melanie Shupe feel about how they bore the brunt of the extreme lifestyle, and their siblings... won't.   I guess they can be happy for them (like the Jeub daughters were for their sibling) but still feel angry they had to suffer.   I can think of, was it the Munck family? who wrote how sorry they were for doing that to their kids, but not many others.

(Mind you, they could be the type of person who rewrites their own history so they've never changed at all.  Those kind of people are so frustrating to deal with!  I can totally see the Zsu/Erika types getting huffy and claiming they never said any of it, and refusing to look at the evidence of their own words)

[ophelia]

1 hour ago, Lurky said:

I can think of, was it the Munck family?

Did they ever post about that on their blog? I've must have missed that or forgotten about it.

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Erica's 180 was certainly a surprise, but I think Bradrick was the most surprising.  Not because there seem to be .... um..... questions and revelations about his sexual orientation and faithfulness.  But because it all came out and resulted in divorce.

Given the image of Peter and Kelly as the Prince and Princess of FundieLand and the shining example of Patriarchy, Courtship Works!! and the 6 kids in 7 years lifestyle, i would have expected it to remain hidden. Everything swept under the rug, and for Kelly to plaster on a smile and keep sweet while Peter continued his secret life.

[nokidsmom]

1 hour ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Given the image of Peter and Kelly as the Prince and Princess of FundieLand and the shining example of Patriarchy, Courtship Works!! and the 6 kids in 7 years lifestyle, i would have expected it to remain hidden. Everything swept under the rug, and for Kelly to plaster on a smile and keep sweet while Peter continued his secret life.

When DPIAT fell and Bradrick! confronted him, I expected that event, along with the whole VF implosion, would seriously change things for him and his family.  I wasn't too surprised that things fell apart with the Royal Fundie Couple but I was surprised that the demise of their marriage was brought out in the open as much as it was.   I would have thought Daddy Brown would have wanted to keep things on the down low as much as possible.  My guess is that things really, really imploded with those two.

 

[Howl]

18 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

 I would have thought Daddy Brown would have wanted to keep things on the down low as much as possible.

Scottie kept it way down low.  He went right on teaching workshops on how to have a successful patriarchal marriage without skipping a beat and without ever acknowledging that his daughter's perfect no-touch courtship, first-kiss-at-the-altar,  quiverfull patriarchal marriage erupted into a major dumpster fire, resulting in the daughter and her quiverfull of kids living on his dime and in his house. 

Truly, I had hoped that Kelly could made some kind of escape; we haven't heard much about her in the last year or so. Does anyone follow her on Instagram?

[nokidsmom]

27 minutes ago, Howl said:

Scottie kept it way down low.  He went right on teaching workshops on how to have a successful patriarchal marriage without skipping a beat and without ever acknowledging that his daughter's perfect no-touch courtship, first-kiss-at-the-altar,  quiverfull patriarchal marriage erupted into a major dumpster fire, resulting in the daughter and her quiverfull of kids living on his dime and in his house. 

@Howl, you are right, Scottie kept on with his workshops as if nothing was happening. I think he would have liked that nothing came out at all, no matter what was going on with his daughter, however he couldn't control the information leaking out entirely.  Probably still driving him nuts.     

[Hane]

A shame for Daddy Brown that there are such things as public records.

[danvillebelle]

Everyone has shared some really great insights on this thread.

Probably the flip that *surprised* me the most was Erika Shupe.  

The whole DPIART and Bradrick implosions - unfortunate for those caught in the fallout (the minor children), horrible of course for Lourdes (and lord knows who else DPIART molested or sexually assaulted in his lifetime), but surprised?  Nope. 

The one thing I was surprised by is that Dougie and Peter's implosions were separate, and didn't involve...um...being caught in flagrante delicto with *each other*.  No one will ever convince me that Doug was not madly in love with Peter.  It was just SO obvious.  (FTR, I think Doug is either bi- or pansexual, and a sociopath to boot - so IOW, he will go after anyone who can satisfy his desire).

[Pretzel]

Most things that were surprising to me have already been mentioned. 

I never expected to see a Duggar woman in pants (and with a nose ring ftm). Neither did I expect Jessa to be such an involved, hands-on, ridiculously infatuated with her boys, caring young mom. She seemed so over having to care for her siblings. I also didn't expect her and Ben's marriage to go so well. Am I holding my breath for them to break free? No. Definitely not. I do think Jessa and Ben (together) would have the smarts to get behind the lack of logic of their beliefs, though. 

I never expected a Brown kid (Sister Wives) to come out as gay, especially not Mariah. What surprised me even more was Kody's gentle, considerate reaction and the way he publicly pointed out that it was 'his place to love, not to judge' despite their cult's stand against gay marriage (or possibly gay everything). I was close to tears when he publicly stated that it was his job as a dad to make sure his gay child feels safe at home. Also surprised by Robyn by now being the one to frequently push the family into the right direction. She annoyed me in the beginning, but she's grown on me ever since. To her it must have been like marrying the guy and his three exes. Last but not least, definitely surprised by how much Kody is able to accept his children's different political views. He's certainly...something, but I doubt any other fundy dad would be so chill and accepting. 

I never expected Zsu to go for the epidural but I guess at this point in her life she just doesn't care anymore. She seems so exhausted, worn out, and -like others have said- she never got over the loss of Boaz's twin. It is sad to watch. I hope she'll see the light one day and soon, but I'm not waiting for it to happen.

I know it's a very minor thing compared to hardcore fundies sending their kids to public school, but I never thought Sarah Maxwell would get a dog. SHE, not the family, or immediate family respectively. I expected Steve to say no to something like a pet (IDOL!!!!11). What didn't surprise me is that they seem to be taking good care of Ellie. The Maxwells aren't famous for doing things half-assed, so when Sarah published the news about her puppy, I assumed she'd be well equipped and aware of the puppy's needs.

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

10 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

I know it's a very minor thing compared to hardcore fundies sending their kids to public school, but I never thought Sarah Maxwell would get a dog. SHE, not the family, or immediate family respectively. I expected Steve to say no to something like a pet (IDOL!!!!11). What didn't surprise me is that they seem to be taking good care of Ellie. The Maxwells aren't famous for doing things half-assed, so when Sarah published the news about her puppy, I assumed she'd be well equipped and aware of the puppy's needs.

 

The cat surprised me more. Arnold Maxwell is by far the best Maxwell in that house. Steve seems like the type that would hate cats. They aren't loyal like dogs. Cats do what they please. They give no shits. That seems like something that would annoy Steve. But I guess he has to appease teri somehow. It seems like Arnold is Teri's other man  When cats are warmer and more caring than your husband, you have a problem. 

[nokidsmom]

51 minutes ago, danvillebelle said:

The one thing I was surprised by is that Dougie and Peter's implosions were separate, and didn't involve...um...being caught in flagrante delicto with *each other*.  No one will ever convince me that Doug was not madly in love with Peter.  It was just SO obvious.  (FTR, I think Doug is either bi- or pansexual, and a sociopath to boot - so IOW, he will go after anyone who can satisfy his desire).

Oh yeah, wasn't there that one picture of them sitting together with Dougie making eyes at Peter.  So weird.   Yet their respective falls did not involve each other.

3 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Cats do what they please. They give no shits. That seems like something that would annoy Steve.

Oh yeah.  That famous saying "dogs have owners, cats have staff".  Looking after the cat probably takes away from looking after Steve, but the cat won't ask you where you are going when you die.  Or tell you to dust the ceiling fans.  The cat might deign to reward you with cuddles.  That's probably all around a better deal than dealing with Steve.

[akinom]

On 2018-02-23 at 6:46 AM, SolomonFundy said:

Since everyone here has already covered the big ones, I'll throw a smaller name in the hat. She's not on the radar here much anymore, but Hannah from Cultivating Home...

 

Hannah was a favourite, back in the day when fundy blogs were readable (and not just mlm marketing). She was preachy, but somehow the change didn’t surprise me much. Remember when they gave up their plans for Saving Germany? Because God. She wanted to move south, and I think they used to let the house in Florida. 

[caitrona]

A couple I haven't seen mentioned:

*Olivia of Fresh Modesty -- I'm *shocked* she hasn't fallen pregnant yet. Her courtship/engagement came from out of nowhere, and I expected she'd be one of the types to want tons of babies. I'm sure her lyme disease has altered those plans, but if they were just using NFP I'd expect an oops baby by now.

*The S'Morton situation. It wasn't hard to imagine Alan a creep, but jailed for incest & child abuse ... I'm shocked at the crime itself, and then (sadly) also at the Mortons supporting Katie in leaving him & making the knowledge public.  

*Grace Sanders living in LA & doing theatre.  Though I'm sort of suspecting that the family played up their "Fundy-ness" so Noah could marry Dorothy & then quietly moved back closer to plain old conservative Christian-ness.

[Aine]

On 2/23/2018 at 9:22 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

But he will just stick with some "Christian counselor" that had weekend of training. 

As a clinical psychologist trained in the scientist-practitioner model- this drives me crazy. I am so willing to work my client's culture and beliefs into therapy because I think that's best for their outcomes. A good therapist should be able to do this while using evidence-based practices. It makes me sad that mainstream conservative Christians mostly understand that medical health care has a purpose (even if they think their prayers made it happen) but they go to untrained "Christian counselors" for mental health care  

[FloraDoraDolly]

One fundie change that surprised me in a sad way was Joy Anna Duggar transforming from an energetic little tomboy who looked up to her secular Cousin Amy into a teenage Stepford wife who "likes dresses" because her super-fundie husband likes dresses.

[nokidsmom]

6 hours ago, Aine said:

As a clinical psychologist trained in the scientist-practitioner model- this drives me crazy. I am so willing to work my client's culture and beliefs into therapy because I think that's best for their outcomes. A good therapist should be able to do this while using evidence-based practices. It makes me sad that mainstream conservative Christians mostly understand that medical health care has a purpose (even if they think their prayers made it happen) but they go to untrained "Christian counselors" for mental health care  

My Maxwellian parents believed that one should turn to the church if there were problems.   Either going to church or if counseling was needed, then you see the pastor.  They wanted my rebellious teenage sister to see the pastor because she was acting out, luckily they didn't follow through IMHO.   At my conservative Christian college, many students, including my very troubled ex, prayed away their problems and were encouraged to do so.  And these were not fundies, just conservative Christians. 

I am not denigrating pastors as being able to do effective counseling because they can (and can be trained counselors in addition to their divinity degree) but it can difficult to know exactly what training, if any, they have in this area.   Years ago, I referred myself to my company's EAP during a tough time.  I was asked if I wanted religious based counseling or "secular" counseling.  I had no idea what the "religious" based counseling was (I hope fully trained counselors working a client's beliefs into therapy, rather than some guy with a "degree" from Reverend Billy Bob's Bible College) however I opted for secular because I didn't religious stuff worked into what I was dealing with.

This is one of the reasons I think Josh Duggar will mess up again.  He never got real therapy for real problems (and that boy has problems!) six months of Jesus Jail is not going to do it.