Which fundie change surprised you the most?

[lawlifelgbt]

16 hours ago, Pretzel said:

I never expected a Brown kid (Sister Wives) to come out as gay, especially not Mariah. What surprised me even more was Kody's gentle, considerate reaction and the way he publicly pointed out that it was 'his place to love, not to judge' despite their cult's stand against gay marriage (or possibly gay everything). I was close to tears when he publicly stated that it was his job as a dad to make sure his gay child feels safe at home. Also surprised by Robyn by now being the one to frequently push the family into the right direction. She annoyed me in the beginning, but she's grown on me ever since. To her it must have been like marrying the guy and his three exes. Last but not least, definitely surprised by how much Kody is able to accept his children's different political views. He's certainly...something, but I doubt any other fundy dad would be so chill and accepting. 

I watched Sister Wives just for that episode and I was bawling by the point where Kody said he wants his kid to feel safe. Kody did better at the initial reaction and emotional support than my parents did, which is really saying something for a Mormon and kind of a jerk. Or was he just doing it for the cameras?

 

It makes me wonder what would happen if a Duggar or other televised fundie were to come out on TV.  If that ever happened I would hope the cameras would provide some level of oversight and protection; to remind the fundies that you can't openly hate or torture a queer kid and be acceptable TV material and thus spare whoever the most damaging aspects of homophobia.

[Briefly]

9 hours ago, lawlifelgbt said:

I watched Sister Wives just for that episode and I was bawling by the point where Kody said he wants his kid to feel safe. Kody did better at the initial reaction and emotional support than my parents did, which is really saying something for a Mormon and kind of a jerk. Or was he just doing it for the cameras?

 

It makes me wonder what would happen if a Duggar or other televised fundie were to come out on TV.  If that ever happened I would hope the cameras would provide some level of oversight and protection; to remind the fundies that you can't openly hate or torture a queer kid and be acceptable TV material and thus spare whoever the most damaging aspects of homophobia.

I would not expect a good reaction from a Duggar or Duggar-type parent in that situation. The poor kid in question would have a really bad time.  Like one of those forced conversion things.

[Georgiana]

11 hours ago, lawlifelgbt said:

I watched Sister Wives just for that episode and I was bawling by the point where Kody said he wants his kid to feel safe. Kody did better at the initial reaction and emotional support than my parents did, which is really saying something for a Mormon and kind of a jerk. Or was he just doing it for the cameras?

 

It makes me wonder what would happen if a Duggar or other televised fundie were to come out on TV.  If that ever happened I would hope the cameras would provide some level of oversight and protection; to remind the fundies that you can't openly hate or torture a queer kid and be acceptable TV material and thus spare whoever the most damaging aspects of homophobia.

I think Kody MIGHT have been genuine there.  The Browns do know what it is like to face censure for who you love on a certain level.  They had to move states because their choice to go public with their marriages opened them up to serious action by the state, lost Meri her job, etc.  They do, on a first hand level, know what it is like to have to live a lie in order to stay safe...and again what it is like to lose friends, family, employment, etc. and face threats of danger when you start openly living your truth.  There are definitely a lot of parallels between what the Browns went through when going public and what many LGBTQ+ people today go through when coming out.   I don't know how similar I see coming out as plyg and coming out as LGBTQ+, but I think the Browns see them as being very similar.

I don't know that their reaction would have been as progressive if the flight to NV had never happened.  But we've seen a few times that the fallout of the decision to go public REALLY impacted Kody, and I think he was afraid for Mariah that she would face the same fears and uncertainty that he did.  

[Tangy Bee]

Saw an old Duggar episode, and the girls were saying how tired they were because they had a "sleep over". Very surprised to hear this. Ok I'm trying to imagine a fundie slumber party...with their baby sisters in the same room. I mean what do fundie girls do or talk about ALL night?? I remember watching movies, eating juck food, dancing, gossiping, and talking about boys. The younger version was about the same except talking about boys

[Columbia]

I’m another one of the surprised-but-not-surprised about DPIAT and his European galavanting. What surprised me the most about that was the lack of people calling out Doug for what he is doing. I know there were a few threads on Facebook about the hypocrisy of it all, but I expected full blown blogs from people like Geoff Botkin, Voddie Baucham, Peter Bradrick and others decrying what Doug is doing (in the name of Matthew 18, of course.) One of the speakers at that history of the world conference VF put in years ago called Dougie the most influential man of the 20th century; does he have nothing to say to redeem his poor judgement? There was so much ego wrapped up in that VF world I can’t imagine that one of the noble patriarchs wouldn’t love to throw Doug under the bus. The only reason I can think of is that they all knew what was going on, and simply looked away. Or Doug has plenty of dirt on them as well. 

[danvillebelle]

53 minutes ago, Columbia said:

I’m another one of the surprised-but-not-surprised about DPIAT and his European galavanting. What surprised me the most about that was the lack of people calling out Doug for what he is doing. I know there were a few threads on Facebook about the hypocrisy of it all, but I expected full blown blogs from people like Geoff Botkin, Voddie Baucham, Peter Bradrick and others decrying what Doug is doing (in the name of Matthew 18, of course.) One of the speakers at that history of the world conference VF put in years ago called Dougie the most influential man of the 20th century; does he have nothing to say to redeem his poor judgement? There was so much ego wrapped up in that VF world I can’t imagine that one of the noble patriarchs wouldn’t love to throw Doug under the bus. The only reason I can think of is that they all knew what was going on, and simply looked away. Or Doug has plenty of dirt on them as well. 

Your last sentence.  B-I-N-G-O and Bingo was his name-o.

Birds of a feather and all that.

[ophelia]

On 27.2.2018 at 3:41 AM, caitrona said:

*Grace Sanders living in LA & doing theatre.  Though I'm sort of suspecting that the family played up their "Fundy-ness" so Noah could marry Dorothy & then quietly moved back closer to plain old conservative Christian-ness.

Grace is doing what? That sounds amazing. I never kept track of the Sanders after they stopped blogging. I thought Grace would be engaged or something. Can anybody provide more information?

6 hours ago, Briefly said:

I would not expect a good reaction from a Duggar or Duggar-type parent in that situation. The poor kid in question would have a really bad time.  Like one of those forced conversion things.

This. Imagine an Anderson child coming out as gay. Without cameras around. That thought really scares me.

[Bethella]

1 hour ago, ophelia said:

Grace is doing what? That sounds amazing. I never kept track of the Sanders after they stopped blogging. I thought Grace would be engaged or something. Can anybody provide more information?

As of last summer Grace is engaged to Alex Gray.

[punkiepie]

I see that a lot of folks here have mentioned Bradrick and DPIART as the fundie change which surprised them most. At first, I agreed, but then I got to thinking about it, and the thought came to me that there is a big difference in a true “fundie change” and then a fundie changing due to a fall in grace.  

With true change, it happens over time, and usually, not always, you get the impression that they feel guilty or sorry for how their past beliefs and behavior may have hurt others.  Since we mostly have only public views of their change, you can’t always tell this, but even in their new way of being, there is usually a vulnerability that wasn’t there before; a, I don't have all the answers, but this is what I think now.  

When a fundie changes due to a fall in grace, it is a much more public spectacle and the need to make “appropriate” statements and lay blame for this fall, is really at odds with a true change of heart. Yes, their heart may have changed, but it was because of an external impetus that forced it to do so. Some people are just geared towards fundamentalism, be it religious, work related, or interpersonal; it’s in their personality. So just because they shifted this fundamentalism away from their religious belief to something else, doesn’t mean that they themselves have actually changed. Dougie and Bradrick are still the same, they are just externally different. 

My little girl, when she does something wrong, she’s very quick to apologize, even before she thinks about what’s she done and when no time has passed to be truly sorry. And I tell her, slow down and think about it- I don’t want an apology that means nothing, that is just you trying to get out of trouble more quickly. I want you to tell me you’re sorry because you know what you did was wrong and you feel bad about it. The thing with fundies who appear to have changed after a fall from grace- their apologies and actions all revolve around the perceived wrongs done to them and how they are picking up the pieces; not how their actions hurt and adversely others. It’s like a child trying to get out of trouble and hoping you will forget about everything as soon as they say that “sorry!”

[delphinium65]

9 hours ago, ophelia said:

This. Imagine an Anderson child coming out as gay. Without cameras around. That thought really scares me.

I'm opposed in general to gays staying in the closet, just because they shouldn't have to, ever, but if one, or more, of the Anderson children happen to be gay?  The poor kid wouldn't have much choice but to keep it secret until s/he could move out and live independently. 

Addition for clarity:  I'm not saying that gays should be pushed out into the open, if they choose to keep their orientation quiet it's their choice. I meant that gays shouldn't have to stay in the closet because of what other people will say/think/do.  I re-read what I said, and realized it wasn't quite what I meant. I hope it makes more sense now!  

[Howl]

1 hour ago, punkiepie said:

I see that a lot of folks here have mentioned Bradrick and DPIART as the fundie change which surprised them most.

Didn't Bradrick! "repent" and begin the repentance process under the guidance of some local church? I'm not convinced that Bradrick! is gay; the wording in his divorce decree relative to visitation may have been contemporary boiler plate language covering ALL the possible bases. Was there any other actual evidence than the language in the divorce degree re: visitation with children?   

[nokidsmom]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

I'm not convinced that Bradrick! is gay; the wording in his divorce decree relative to visitation may have been contemporary boiler plate language covering ALL the possible bases. Was there any other actual evidence than the language in the divorce degree re: visitation with children?   

I wondered about that wording in the divorce decree as well: that it more likely was covering all bases / possible scenarios regarding visitation.  

[Hane]

I often wonder whether the language in BRADRICK!’s divorce decree was concocted to throw shade at him for wanting out. I mean, in the US it’s common for the woman to file for divorce, but it was left to Petey  because it would be unseemly for a Good Christian Woman to do such a “feministic” thing.

[Howl]

I've very happy for Kelly, because divorce stopped the pregnancies. I don't recall how many kids she has already, but it would be a minimum of one to two more if she'd stayed with Bradrick! with probably another on the way.  This way she can enjoy the kids she already has. 

Does anyone follow her Instagram? 

[ophelia]

I do. She is taking an IG break since November.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Kelly had six kids in a row and then there was a gap before they filed for divorce. So I think it was a sign that something was going on. 

[formergothardite]

Erika's massive change has surprised me the most. I am also surprised Dougie went the jaunt around Europe with women route. I figured he would lay low and then try to start another Christian "ministry". Kristina putting her kids in public school surprises me more than her wearing pants. I wish people like her and Erika would explain what caused them to change their minds and realize that their old beliefs were wrong. 

[Cleopatra7]

On 2/27/2018 at 7:07 PM, Briefly said:

I would not expect a good reaction from a Duggar or Duggar-type parent in that situation. The poor kid in question would have a really bad time.  Like one of those forced conversion things.

Alan Keyes and Randall Terry both threw out their respective kids who came out as LGBT, seemingly without a second thought. I think the Duggars would be the same.

[Black Aliss]

On 2/26/2018 at 6:41 PM, caitrona said:

*Grace Sanders living in LA & doing theatre.  Though I'm sort of suspecting that the family played up their "Fundy-ness" so Noah could marry Dorothy & then quietly moved back closer to plain old conservative Christian-ness.

She is WHAT?!? Seems like everyone in that family has gone private except for Loralynn's blog and even she doesn't provide much insight into the extended family. I loved their farm, loved their mad construction skills (would really like to see Noah's and Darth's house now that it must be finished. 

[punkiepie]

4 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

She is WHAT?!? Seems like everyone in that family has gone private except for Loralynn's blog and even she doesn't provide much insight into the extended family. I loved their farm, loved their mad construction skills (would really like to see Noah's and Darth's house now that it must be finished. 

I would LOVE to see what’s going on with Cleve and Lise!  I remember when he was one of the most eligible fundie bachelors. After the double wedding, I’ve seen very little about them. 

[Briefly]

8 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Kristina putting her kids in public school surprises me more than her wearing pants. I wish people like her and Erika would explain what caused them to change their minds and realize that their old beliefs were wrong. 

I think a lot of it was because of how her sister was treated.

[desertvixen]

Dougie definitely strikes me as the type who knows where all the skeletons are...and he's got some dashing archaeologist outfifts to go dig them up in!

[luv2laugh]

Sorry to be late to the game but can someone fill me in on what happened with Bradrick and how we know he wanted out?

[Four is Enough]

22 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Alan Keyes and Randall Terry both threw out their respective kids who came out as LGBT, seemingly without a second thought. I think the Duggars would be the same.

I'm not so sure. The almighty image dictates that they "act" perfect even if they're not. So to Pray Away the Gay camp      they would go, I think. They're never going to admit that one of theirs strayed away from total heterosexuality.

[mydoggoskeeper]

On 2/26/2018 at 9:41 PM, caitrona said:

A couple I haven't seen mentioned:

*Olivia of Fresh Modesty -- I'm *shocked* she hasn't fallen pregnant yet. Her courtship/engagement came from out of nowhere, and I expected she'd be one of the types to want tons of babies. I'm sure her lyme disease has altered those plans, but if they were just using NFP I'd expect an oops baby by now.

*The S'Morton situation. It wasn't hard to imagine Alan a creep, but jailed for incest & child abuse ... I'm shocked at the crime itself, and then (sadly) also at the Mortons supporting Katie in leaving him & making the knowledge public.  

*Grace Sanders living in LA & doing theatre.  Though I'm sort of suspecting that the family played up their "Fundy-ness" so Noah could marry Dorothy & then quietly moved back closer to plain old conservative Christian-ness.

I'll echo many of these...

#1: The fall of the perfect VF couple Bradrick shocked me especially with Scott still trying to work the circuit and Kelly living with/near her parents.  

2#: S'morton drama.  While his crimes are horrific, his actions were not surprising given his upbringing.   His sisters PUBLICLY turning their back on their mother and supporting their SIL was surprising, in the best way.  

3# I forget the whole story but the mother wrote a blog, in part, about her daughter Autumn who she allowed to get married stupidly young and then had a change of heart when it turned out terribly.