32-year-old SAHD waiting on the Lord (Adrienne Leigh McKee)

[Sobeknofret]

31 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

I think someone should remind Adrienne that Jane Bennet and Mr Bingley are fictional characters -- i.e. not real life.

And Jane Austen herself never got Adrienne's version of "happily ever after" either. Most of Austen's books are straight up satire of that mindset that believes in the Jane Bennett style romance. That's what all these fundies miss- Austen herself never believed in this kind of nonsense!

[katilac]

If people everywhere would stop talking about going on dates with family members, that would be awesome. 

Just say that you went to a concert with your mom. No need for it to be a mother-daughter date. 

[Shoobydoo]

On 2/24/2018 at 11:20 AM, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

I think someone should remind Adrienne that Jane Bennet and Mr Bingley are fictional characters -- i.e. not real life.

 

Not only that, a fairly major plot point of that book is that Jane Bennet's timidness nearly cost her her marriage. Jane's mild mannered personality is not protrayed as a good thing when it comes to romance, and the fact that she is actually well-meaning but naive to the point of idiocy is made abundantly clear. To anyone with basic reading comprehension, I suppose. Jane's romance came to  fruition because other, more outgoing characters-- I.E. Elisabeth and eventually Mr. Darcy-- intervened on her behalf. Because Mr. Bingley is ALSO mild mannered to the point of being a human doormat. 

Really, neither of them are characters to emulate. 

[BackseatMom]

She and I are very close in age. I have such a hard time imagining her life. Still being at home, as essentially a child. No job, no apparent big interests - what does she even do all day?

[librarianjojo]

If she's willing to move, there's surely an Arndt close in age. Should we forward her blog to the famteam contact page?

[Jug Band Baby]

On 19/02/2018 at 8:23 PM, singsingsing said:

Most men won't view that as charming, chaste and godly, they will assume you're simply not interested.

How much do you think a girl's initial actions (mentally, these young women are kids, often minors) matter?  If a fundy boy is interested, all he's got to do is go ask her daddy, and then the target can acknowledge he's alive.

[grantedgrant]

On ‎2018‎-‎03‎-‎03 at 3:55 AM, librarianjojo said:

If she's willing to move, there's surely an Arndt close in age. Should we forward her blog to the famteam contact page?

Considering she went to her first sleep away camp without her mother at 28 - and didn't like it, "I don't know if I would want to do that again" - a move seems unlikely.

Sorry Arndts...

[nausicaa]

8 hours ago, grantedgrant said:

Considering she went to her first sleep away camp without her mother at 28 - and didn't like it, "I don't know if I would want to do that again" - a move seems unlikely.

Sorry Arndts...

I just don't get why some evangelicals do this to their kids. As we established, it makes it so difficult for them to find a partner. But even if they do, how are these women going to be a supportive wife and functioning parent if they are afraid to take a short trip away from their parents? Assuming the husband is at work all day to support the ninety kids they have, the wife needs to be able to independently run errands, create and execute a homeschooling curriculum, deal with repairmen, get the kids to doctors appointments, and manage the home (i.e., she needs to be a functional adult and not an overgrown, helpless little kid).

And it is possible to raise an independent, resourceful adult even if they happen to live at home. They could do this while still living within their religious beliefs. I really think a lot of people grab onto the SAHD movement as a way to deal with anxiety. 

[L1o2u3]

https://adrienneand.blogspot.de/2018/02/what-mess-or-is-it.html 

Adrienne has now written a post in response to this thread  

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I have to admit that I was surprised/found it funny/shocked/hurt to find a thread on a dumb forum had been created just to discuss/make fun of my life, blog, family, etc....I know that these kinds of forums are often created and commented on by sad and hurting people. 
 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I see some spark in that post which I admire. 

[Joyleaf]

1 hour ago, L1o2u3 said:

https://adrienneand.blogspot.de/2018/02/what-mess-or-is-it.html 

Adrienne has now written a post in response to this thread  

 

And it seems like her mother also chimed in:
https://adrienneand.blogspot.de/2018/02/guest-post-1-thoughts-from-mother.html

[EowynW]

Reformed is definitely a brand of fundamentalism. They just don't see it about themselves. 

 

[acheronbeach]

17 minutes ago, Joyleaf said:

And it seems like her mother also chimed in:
https://adrienneand.blogspot.de/2018/02/guest-post-1-thoughts-from-mother.html

I like that her mother's supportive, but... unsurprisingly, she pulls out the standard answer "you're just jealous."

 

No.  We're really not.  We feel sorry for your daughter because it appears you have stunted her and called it God's will.

[LilMissMetaphor]

Jane AustEn, honey.

[EowynW]

8 minutes ago, acheronbeach said:

I like that her mother's supportive, but... unsurprisingly, she pulls out the standard answer "you're just jealous."

 

No.  We're really not.  We feel sorry for your daughter because it appears you have stunted her and called it God's will.

^THIS. I feel sorry for her because I was there in her place, just a few years younger. I lived that life. I was stunted and held back in the name of God. And I hate to see someone else trapped the same way. 

I thought my own mother wrote that post at first. It was the same kind of stuff she'd say to us. 

I'm not jealous. I've been there done that with that life. Never again. I'm still trying to recover and find my own self. 

[Palimpsest]

Goodness me.  She found us.  It must have stung a little when it took FJ over a month to notice Adrienne's rebuttal and mom's guest post.  It's also rather a pity they did that, because I wouldn't even have read this thread or her blog if they had just ignored us.  Now it has popped back up on the first page.

Well, good for you, Adrienne, for fighting back.   I'm glad FJ greatly increased your readership.  You can now pin on your "Discussed on Snarked on Persecuted by FJ" button. 

Your points were well made and I'm sorry you were hurt and shocked.   I'm only going to address a few of them.  And I have only read those two posts.

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I keep my blog for my friends and family. I keep it for me.  I also keep it because I feel that maybe, just maybe it will be a help or encouragement someone along their way- be it friend or stranger.

Whatever your intent, your blog is public.  The very nature of public blogs is that anyone can stumble on them, read them, and react to them.  Some strangers may even comment on your blog.  It looks as though one of our lurkers has done so already, but she supported you.  

If you don't want strangers finding your blog and discussing it then you should make it private.  This is the 21st century.

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I opened my heart and life to you four times over the past two months.  I did it because I felt that I had to, had to share...I think that God was leading me to.  I was not looking for pity or accolades or lectures. (At the very least NOT from perfect strangers. People who don't know or like me at all.) 

So God lead you to share on a public blog.  Perhaps it was His intent for strangers to comment on it too.  No, we don't know you.  We only comment on what you put out in public yourself.  You may be perfectly content, and I hope you are.  Many women over the ages have lived full and happy lives without ever marrying.  You are too young any way to assume that you will never marry.  To my mind, 32 is not on the shelf. 

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I know that these kinds of forums are often created and commented on by sad and hurting people. 

The standard attack.  It is usually followed by a pious statement that you are praying for us.  Thanks for sparing us that.  Some of us may be sad and hurting because they are survivors of extreme fundamentalist belief systems.   I'd say most of us are here because we are interested in extreme fundamentalist beliefs and the damage they can do. 

We define fundamentalism broadly here.  We also do not limit our discussions to Christianity.  However, the Stay At Home Daughter movement comes under the Christian Patriarchal Movement.  Here's a good article on that if you have never heard of it:   http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/02/what-is-christian-patriarchy-an-introduction.html

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~I/my family are NOT Fundamentalists. We aren't average Evangelicals.  (Reformed people & Presbyterians are not your average cup of tea.)

I don't think many people are average.  There is variation in beliefs among people who identify as "Reformed Presbyterian."  Some are far more conservative than others.  Some do end up in the Christian Patriarchal Movement and its nastier off-shoots.

ETA, I just noticed the post on buying fabric and a recommendation for an online store.  I'm going to follow that link.  Thanks.

[PennySycamore]

@EowynW,  I wish I could vote "Love" on your post 100 times and @Palimpsest,  your rebuttal was perfection!

(ETA: I think they sell Collodial Silver soap in the Vermont Country Store's catalog.)

[nausicaa]

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Would you have become a career woman if you'd realized you'd still be single at this point of your life? Not likely. That's just not your style or your ambition. You've always been a homemaker/care-giver/nurturing type of person and you've blessed MANY, MANY people with your talents and love through the years...whether it be church folks, extended family, friends, neighbors, strangers, political comrades, etc, etc. EVERYONE is different and not all women desire to be what the world would have them to be....many simply want to love and serve their family (and extended circles). 

I really don't understand that idea that being a "career woman" cannot be compatible with nurturing and serving others. Not every woman who works becomes a district attorney or Wall Street trader. You can take care of others via careers in nursing, teaching, day care, and counseling. 

Also, why must helping people be limited to immediate social circles? The more I read, the more I suspect Adrienne has some social anxiety that she might want to get some help addressing rather than concocting a belief system around. It is interesting that the one person in the comments vociferously defending her (and criticizing us) admits she has never married because of extreme social phobias (and for the record, no one called Adrienne awful or worthless in this thread). 

 

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Some naysayers are simply a variation on “sour grapes”. Deep down they are envious that you have such a life. 

I'm really confused as to what her mother thinks we are envious of about this life.

I'm saying this as one unmarried 33-year-old woman to another-- Adrienne, I promise you I am not envious. I have all of the singleness that you have, as well as the lessons in God's timing and patience that you'll claim that you've received from the experience. I've got enough damn lessons in patience for six lifetimes. 

However, I am beyond grateful that I can go out into the world and have a career, hobbies, education, travel, ownership of my sexuality, my own place, and my own accomplishments as I try to create a meaningful life that I now realize may never include marriage or children. (Which leads me back to my original criticism of SAHDs --it is inadvisable to hang all of your life goals on getting married and having children. Not because those are unworthy goals, but because they are goals that you do not have much control over attaining. Living life with grace involves not just accepting the things you cannot change, but also the courage to change the things you can.) 

The only thing I can think that Adrienne has that I don't is the permissiveness from her parents to live as a 17 year old with no responsibilities. Which seems an odd benefit to tout when defending the merit and virtue of her lifestyle. 

[singsingsing]

Why does it always come back to envy with these folks? What is it about their lives that they think we would be envious of? I'm genuinely curious.

[Joyleaf]

7 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Why does it always come back to envy with these folks? What is it about their lives that they think we would be envious of? I'm genuinely curious.

My theory:
I think it stems from them not being allowed to be critical of the lifestyle promoted within their social circle.
So as soon as they see somebody being critical of their lifestyle/values that person must be wrong, therefore must not have the grace of god and thus must be miserable. Of course.
And as that person is miserable and they are happy (or have to be happy), the only reason for this person to be critical is jealousy of that happiness.

You need to narrow your mind a lot for this to work but apparently they manage.

 

[Botkinetti]

@Joyleaf beautifully put. I was trying and failing to put put my thoughts into words and along came your post. To me it is also the response of someone who has never had to think like an adult and can therefore fluff off any criticism as beneath their notice.

[Black Aliss]

1 minute ago, Joyleaf said:

So as soon as they see somebody being critical of their lifestyle/values that person must be wrong, therefore must not have the grace of god and thus must be miserable. Of course.
 

This is fundamentalism in a nutshell, be it religious, atheistic, economic (see: free market fundamentaists), dietary (vegan fundamentalists), or whatever: Everyone Who Doesn't Agree With Me Is Wrong. 

From wikipedia: 

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Fundamentalism usually has a religious connotation that indicates unwavering attachment to a set of irreducible beliefs. However, fundamentalism has come to be applied to a tendency among certain groups—mainly, though not exclusively, in religion—that is characterized by a markedly strict literalism as it is applied to certain specific scriptures, dogmas, or ideologies, and a strong sense of the importance of maintaining ingroup and outgroup distinctions, leading to an emphasis on purity and the desire to return to a previous ideal from which advocates believe members have strayed. Rejection of diversity of opinion as applied to these established "fundamentals" and their accepted interpretation within the group is often the result of this tendency.

In a sense, fundamentalism--not Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Secularism--is the religion. And we could almost give Adrienne a pass. The Associated Press style guide says you can't call someone a fundamentalist (in an AP article, obv.) unless they call themselves that. But where's the fun in that, I ask?

[Palimpsest]

35 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Why does it always come back to envy with these folks? What is it about their lives that they think we would be envious of? I'm genuinely curious.

I'm pretty sure Sarah Maxwell genuinely believes that all people who are not Godly (by Steve's definition) turf their off-spring straight out into the big cold world at age 18 and never want to see them again.  Those horrible unGodly people would never support their children again financially, emotionally, or otherwise.  No wonder we are envious.

Thanks to the recession and horrible job market, I can't count how many of my non-religious friends have put their children through college, helped them financially well into their 20s, and have an open door policy when they boomerang back home.  I don't ask, not my business, but I know many of them expect their adult children to get jobs (any job) and help out with household expenses.  It's called adult responsibilities.  It isn't good to give your adult kids a free ride forever.

[formergothardite]

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EVERYONE is different and not all women desire to be what the world would have them to be....many simply want to love and serve their family (and extended circles). 

Do they not realize that some of us are stay at home moms? If they paid attention they would find a diverse group of people here, and really, you can work and love/serve your family. You can also stay at home and not love/serve your family. 

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Some naysayers are simply a variation on “sour grapes”. Deep down they are envious that you have such a life.

Why would any of us desire that life? She doesn't exactly make it look appealing. 

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I think that God was leading me to.

Did you ever consider God was leading you to hear from us? Maybe this is sign that you should get out of your little bubble.

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Yes, I depend on my Mom, and she depends on me. I depend on my Dad too, for that matter. We ALL depend on someone- sibling, partner, boss, roommate, friend, co-worker, etc.

Realize there are some dependent relationships that are unhealthy. Some dependent relationships enable people to continue unhealthy behavior. 

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I don't have the happy knack of making any kind of friends- I find it very hard to find subjects of common interest, and the right questions to draw people out.

Welcome to the club. If you can't find subjects to talk to people about then maybe it is time to consider that you life is extremely narrow and perhaps somewhat self-centered. Small talk is TORTURE to me, but guess what, I do it, because avoiding it just makes the anxiety about it worse. If you don't have the knack of making friends, then work on yourself. Get a therapist if necessary(and good therapists works wonders), but don't just passively accept that you can't talk to people. 

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In my circle the number of "singles over 30" is less than a handful.

Expand your circle. 

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I do what I can with the life God has given me, and results are up to God.

Are you really? Or are you creating a god in your image so you won't have to deal with the parts of life that you find difficult?

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Sure Jane Austin wrote fiction, but there are no book/movie/play characters who don't have some truth- every character is based in some way on one or more person in real life.  Why else do movies tend to have disclaimers?  

 Austen wasn't actually saying that the stay at home daughter life was grand.

And movies put that because people sue over all sorts of stuff. They are covering their ass.

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I/my family are NOT Fundamentalists. 

Sure Jan. 

Anyway, it sounds like she might have social anxiety and her family is enabling her to live a life where she doesn't have to deal with it. It does not sound like a healthy relationship. 

[Sobeknofret]

Oh, Adrienne. I'm genuinely not sure what you think I'm jealous of exactly.  I realized a very, very long time ago that life is not a Jane Austen novel, and that life wasn't a Jane Austen novel even for Jane Austen, and I worked hard to get what I wanted. I have been married over 20 years, have a son, a busy and happy social life, and intellectually and personally fulfilling work that I do from home.  My life is happy and rich...BUT...

I worked hard for it to be that way. Sitting at home waiting for Mr. Bingley isn't going to get you what you want. You want to be a wife and mom, staying at home? Great! I'm a WAHM and wife, and have not the slightest issue with SAHM's and wives (or working moms, for that matter). As far as I can see, you're living life in a terrible holding pattern, that not even *you* are enjoying, waiting for your dream life to just...happen to you, doing nothing to achieve what you want, and living a stagnate life.

Envy you, not in the slightest. Pity you? Immensely.