Josh, Anna and the Ms 16: The sins of our fathers

[ophelia]

5 hours ago, SamiKatz said:

My mind went right to The Wire.  Omar's coming!

I almost choked on my oatmeal! Thank you - there's no better way to start a week than laughing this hard!

[Ivycoveredtower]

so I was looking into Anna's siblings today because well I was bored anyway. I mean I knew her parents were crazy and she had a fair few siblings that left (Yay them) but I never realized just how nutso the Keller's were. I was reading that Anna couldn't even talk to her siblings about liking Josh she could only talk to her parents. when I start thinking the Duggar's are the better parents of the two sets I know somethings off. I did make me soften a bit towards Anna. 

[Million Children For Jesus]

@Ivycoveredtower Did you look into Anna’s older sister, Esther, and Esther’s husband, John Shrader? That will keep you busy. 

[Ivycoveredtower]

Just now, Million Children For Jesus said:

@Ivycoveredtower Did you look into Anna’s older sister, Esther, and Esther’s husband, John Shrader? That will keep you busy. 

I looked at her a little. not in depth. just from what I've read I'm scared to go down that rabbit hole. 

[onekidanddone]

17 hours ago, SamiKatz said:

My mind went right to The Wire.  Omar's coming!

Remember when little kids were fighting over who got to play Omar? "I want to be Omar'! "No, it is my turn to be Omar".

I now have The Farmer in the Dell stuck in my head.

[SapphireSlytherin]

3 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

Remember when little kids were fighting over who got to play Omar? "I want to be Omar'! "No, it is my turn to be Omar".

I now have The Farmer in the Dell stuck in my head.

What is The Wire? And who is Omar? (I'm old)

[onekidanddone]

2 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

What is The Wire? And who is Omar? (I'm old)

The Wire was an HBO series by David Simon which ran for five years. It chronicles the world of the Baltimore streets from the point of view of the corner kids, cops and politicians. As all three groups interact it is clear there is no obvious good or bad guy.  

Here is the 411 on Omar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Little_and_associates

[SamiKatz]

Hopefully this works: 

 

 

2 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

The Wire was an HBO series by David Simon which ran for five years. It chronicles the world of the Baltimore streets from the point of view of the corner kids, cops and politicians. As all three groups interact it is clear there is no obvious good or bad guy.  

Here is the 411 on Omar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Little_and_associates

I truly think Omar is one of the best characters ever created for TV.  David Simon said he is losely based on a real person as well.

[CorruptionInc.]

This makes me think of how a friend used Samson and Delilah in a reference today. 

She used to reference wrong and this has nothing to do with the above conversation; but it's where my head went.

[amendgitan]

On 3/18/2018 at 3:48 PM, viii said:

I’m another one who has pity for Josh. His parents failed him completely. 

(I also don’t believe he’s a child molester, since he was a minor at the time) 

Josh was a fully pubertal 14 and 15 year old when he snuck into his prepubescent sisters' bedrooms and fondled them and when he corned a little girl in the laundry room during a game of hide and seek and when he held a five year old child on his lap and groped her while pretending to read her a book. 

He may not be a pedophile but he was certainly a child molester. 

He is predatory and his smugly arrogant attempts to lecture others about righteous behavior and control people's sexuality and women's bodies through his hate-filled activism, all the while he was cheating on his wife, show that he remains dangerous. 

Yes, his family's twisted beliefs and the overall structure of the hard right Christian patriarchy created him. Child abuse of all kinds, domestic violence, incest ad sexual assault are all high in religious, fundamentalist patriarchies. 

Of course not all become abusers in such environments and who do may be influenced by other things such as personalities, natural propensities and other factors. I believe there is something about that individual himself that made him susepctible to being twisted by his family's teachings while his other siblings may not. His predatory behavior coupled with his smugness and hateful attempts to control and harm others for their sexuality, hint of possibly sociopathy to me. 

The press exposed the stunning hypocrisy of this hate-filled activist family whose message has been designed and is still designed to turn the nation into a theocracy governed by frightening laws that harm people like me - women, queer, etc.

They have worked hard to make the lives of those they deem sinful as miserable as possible, all the while covering up the reality of their own family.

The press has long acted to expose such incredible hypocrisy in those who have or quest for power- either as politicians or as social elites. Having the freedom of the press to do so, whether via a salacious magazine or through a more reputable news source, is important in tampering the power of those who seek to control the personal lives, professional lives, the families and bodies of others.

The release of this information served an important purpose in our democracy in helping to quell the dangerous message this powerful family was spreading about how following such a restrictive, hateful and misogynistic religious lifestyle will lead to a quaintly happy, organized and healthy life filled with laughter and family. 

The press exposed the nasty underbelly of this "wholesome" culture and for that I feel grateful.

I do not regret that Josh's actions as a minor were publicized. It appears that publication was within the limits of the law, and served the FOIA purpose quite well.

I think the redaction could've been better handled to make it more difficult to determine the exact identity of his victims as I agree that one's abuse history should be private until and unless they choose to reveal it. But I think the release could've been done in such a way as to not lead to such easily definitive identification. 

Ultimately, however, in balancing the risk versus benefit, I believe the benefit of the release of this story far outweighs the harm to his victims.

Many families who may have been lured by the wholesome image of this tight, fundamentalist family whitewashed by TLC,  may have had second thoughts about veering deeper into the culture of the Christian patriarchy. Fewer people may feel "called" to enter into this life, dragging in mates and kids, due to the exposure. 

And the partial downfall of such a powerful family overall helped mitigate the damage they've done and can do politically as people pondering what propositions to vote for or what politicians, do indeed remember the hypocrisy of those promoting such laws or candidates. And that affects their votes. 

 

[Ivycoveredtower]

here is an old clip of Michelle explaining what the Duggar's do on Easter or as they call it Resurrection day. so I figure its very likely the M's will be doing something similar.  

 

[MargaretElliott]

Okay, I don't know when that was filmed, but does Michelle seem more... human... in that clip to anyone else? Her voice is slightly affected, but I notice mine is too when I'm being filmed and trying not to say "um" and "like". Honestly I'm much worse, but she's in front of a camera a hell of a lot more than I am, so she has more practice. I think her voice is a full octave lower than the recent film clips from Counting On, and she just seems less robotic and baby-voice. Still a little robotic and baby-voiced, but much less so. And there seems to be some vestige of humanity behind her eyes. Humanity that's disappeared in recent shows.

Maybe I'm projecting, and I admit to not watching Counting On recently (I didn't want to give TLC any more views after Joy's wedding), so I might be entirely wrong. But I think there's been a change in that woman, and not an entirely good one.

[Ivycoveredtower]

2 minutes ago, MargaretElliott said:

Okay, I don't know when that was filmed, but does Michelle seem more... human... in that clip to anyone else? Her voice is slightly affected, but I notice mine is too when I'm being filmed and trying not to say "um" and "like". Honestly I'm much worse, but she's in front of a camera a hell of a lot more than I am, so she has more practice. I think her voice is a full octave lower than the recent film clips from Counting On, and she just seems less robotic and baby-voice. Still a little robotic and baby-voiced, but much less so. And there seems to be some vestige of humanity behind her eyes. Humanity that's disappeared in recent shows.

Maybe I'm projecting, and I admit to not watching Counting On recently (I didn't want to give TLC any more views after Joy's wedding), so I might be entirely wrong. But I think there's been a change in that woman, and not an entirely good one.

tlc posted that clip in April 2014

[Eternalbluepearl]

@amendgitan you said a phrase that really struck me "white washed by TLC." Sorry I didn't take the time to quote. Wow. TLC is doing a dangerous thing by basically promoting religous fundamentalism as happy! Normal! Fun! Families! Yikes. I am hit hard by that. 

[Ivycoveredtower]

3 minutes ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

@amendgitan you said a phrase that really struck me "white washed by TLC." Sorry I didn't take the time to quote. Wow. TLC is doing a dangerous thing by basically promoting religous fundamentalism as happy! Normal! Fun! Families! Yikes. I am hit hard by that. 

when the first few specials came out they did better about telling things more as they were. they even showed an ATI sign on the back of their camper. they talked to people on the street asking what they thought of the Duggar's large family. Jim bob's dad talked about how crazy having all those kids was. as did Michelle's sister.  by the time the full show came out they had really white washed everything. even the first few episodes talking about Josh and Anna's engagement showed how crazy they actually were. they went more in depth on courtship ect... now  besides no hand holding or kissing they don't really talk about all that goes into courtship and the only reason we know about the questonire is because Jeremy let that one slip during a tell all. 

[Nikedagain?]

On 3/26/2018 at 1:17 PM, onekidanddone said:

Remember when little kids were fighting over who got to play Omar? "I want to be Omar'! "No, it is my turn to be Omar".

I now have The Farmer in the Dell stuck in my head.

Michael B. Jordan will ALWAYS be Wallace. And Omar was such a GREAT character on the best show ever made! 

[onekidanddone]

2 hours ago, Nikedagain? said:

Michael B. Jordan will ALWAYS be Wallace. And Omar was such a GREAT character on the best show ever made! 

"Where the fuck is Wallace"? D'Angelo Barksdale.

[Ivycoveredtower]

Anna, Josh the M's and a bunch of Duggar's went to Waco over the weekend. here is a bunch of pics. Just ignore gross Josh in the first one. 

 

[singsingsing]

Are these Chip and Joanna people paying the Duggars to advertise for them or what? I get that they're Christians and they want to promote fellow Christians, but holy shit, we get it. Chip and Joanna, Waco, the Silos, Magnolia. Enough already. I'm not saying they can't go there and post about it, but it seems like they're getting something out of promoting it constantly like this.

[Million Children For Jesus]

The association to the Duggars is so powerfully negative for me that I can no longer stand Chip and Joanna Gaines. I’m disappointed in their choice to align themselves with the Duggars. Yuck. Just yuck. 

[nastyhobbitses]

15 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Are these Chip and Joanna people paying the Duggars to advertise for them or what? I get that they're Christians and they want to promote fellow Christians, but holy shit, we get it. Chip and Joanna, Waco, the Silos, Magnolia. Enough already. I'm not saying they can't go there and post about it, but it seems like they're getting something out of promoting it constantly like this.

I don't think they are. I think they're smart enough not to associate themselves with the Duggars. I think it's just that their aesthetic is like catnip for fundies. Rustic chic! Really generic design because creativity leads to critical thinking! Extremely unrealistic and distinctly white and upper-class vision of the rural South! Cupcakes and coffee because we need to appear relatable! 

[singsingsing]

6 minutes ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I don't think they are. I think they're smart enough not to associate themselves with the Duggars. I think it's just that their aesthetic is like catnip for fundies. Rustic chic! Really generic design because creativity leads to critical thinking! Extremely unrealistic and distinctly white and upper-class vision of the rural South! Cupcakes and coffee because we need to appear relatable! 

I totally agree - especially not with Josh! I think that's why it seems so weird to me. Are the Duggars hoping to get some kind of deal out of it? Or are they just that obsessed? I've never seen them gush about anything like this so often to the point that it seems more like advertising. But I probably don't understand the irresistible allure of the Silos. 

[Ivycoveredtower]

29 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Are these Chip and Joanna people paying the Duggars to advertise for them or what? I get that they're Christians and they want to promote fellow Christians, but holy shit, we get it. Chip and Joanna, Waco, the Silos, Magnolia. Enough already. I'm not saying they can't go there and post about it, but it seems like they're getting something out of promoting it constantly like this.

Some of the Duggar's follow chip and Joanna on instagram I just checked and it doesn't look like either Chip or Joanna follow any Duggars. 

[nastyhobbitses]

2 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

I totally agree - especially not with Josh! I think that's why it seems so weird to me. Are the Duggars hoping to get some kind of deal out of it? Or are they just that obsessed? I've never seen them gush about anything like this so often to the point that it seems more like advertising. But I probably don't understand the irresistible allure of the Silos. 

I don't get the obsession either. It seems like a fine enough place to spend an afternoon if you're local to the area, but a 400+ mile road trip for overpriced avocado toast and cornhole? Guys, there are probably like 80 places around Fayetteville that do that because college students are all over that shit. 

[Million Children For Jesus]

I had to Google, “cornhole.” First, there was broomball, and now cornhole. I’m always learning something on FJ. 

My phone won’t let me type, “cornhole.” This post took a lot of effort to type.