Joy and Austin: 248 Days Since the Wedding and Still Counting

[SapphireSlytherin]

I swear I remember seeing a "blanket training" segment during one of the original Duggar shows on whatever network was profiting them back in the frumpier days.

[Jane the Virgin]

@mizandry Thank you for posting that photo and video. I'd only ever read about the Pearls. It's much, much harder to watch them. I just got 15 minutes into the webinar and had to turn it off, I was so overwhelmed by sadness and rage.

It's especially hard to watch the adult children, who have never known anything else, advocate for their own past abuse. 

[SamuraiKatz]

I lived around the corner from one of Boozman's offices in Mtn Home not too long ago! Ugh I hated that town!

Congratulations on your escape from Mountain Home. I wouldn't like living there either.

I have no idea why Boozman has an office in Mountain Home. He can't even be bothered to hold a face to face town meeting.

[Crazy Enough to Join]

For those discussing which Duggar adult would or would not use Pearls' methods on their children, I do think you have to remember the numbers game. Obviously from the Pearls' books they are power-hungry sickos who enjoy beating children, but not everyone who follows their method is. Some Quiverful parents turn to physical abuse because they literally are unable to handle a pregnancy every year, and homeschooling, and 19 kids.  If you look at previous centuries pre-reliable birth control in America, parents tragically turned to physical abuse quite often. Anyway, my point is, any Duggar adult who does not limit family size and insists on homeschooling and all that will, imo, end up following the Pearls' methods to try to rein in the insanity. Jessa included. Those Duggar adults who have less kids, assuming they aren't naturally cruel, will treat their children better. It's math more than religious conviction that drives parents to the Pearls' imo.

Even if one believes all corporal punishment is inherently harmful, I do think it's important to differentiate spanking as say Dobson of Focus on the Family recommends it from the Pearls' beating. A child has never died from the Dobson recommended hand slap over the diaper for a two-year-old misbehaving. Children have died from the Pearls' beatings.

[FundMe]

True story.....I knew a couple who rigorously followed the Pearl methods. One night their baby screamed and screamed after being put to bed.  True to form, they were letting the baby cry it out.  The next morning they found he had a loose string caught around his little toe.   The poor baby was in PAIN and almost lost his toe.  I was so angry when they asked for prayer in church.  It was their own damn fault!

[Alice in Fundieland]

Last night, Pickles posted an email exchange between one of her followers and Terry Forsyth. In the email, Terry said Joy and Austin’s baby is due in 2 weeks. He also implied that he and Roxanne selectively used only some of the Pearls’ “methods” and that the Pearls were invited to Fort Rock because of  Michael’s knife/tomahawk throwing skills. 

[Jellybean]

5 hours ago, SawScar2017 said:

True story.....I knew a couple who rigorously followed the Pearl methods. One night their baby screamed and screamed after being put to bed.  True to form, they were letting the baby cry it out.  The next morning they found he had a loose string caught around his little toe.   The poor baby was in PAIN and almost lost his toe.  I was so angry when they asked for prayer in church.  It was their own damn fault!

Stories like that, while still awful, give me hope because it was a small warning. The parents had the opportunity to realise that there may be a very good reason for baby to cry, and punishment or cry-it-out don’t work in those situations. I hope it gave them some insight into the young person/people in their care and that the world will be spared the tragedy of another Hannah Alemu, for example. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

11 hours ago, artdecades said:

the fact that it wasn't austin writing those messages doesn't make me feel any better. he was raised with this and has shown no signs of rejecting or even moving slightly way from any of his family's beliefs. joy was raised to be an obedient helpmeet who follows what her headship says. and we all know she was raised with the pearl methods too.

I'm not saying all this isn't true, but just because you aren't rocking the boat doesn't mean you have the same beliefs. For a long time I was very quiet about my life choices as I was afraid of what my parents would do if they found out I didn't agree with any Catholic teachings, I completely disagreed with their conservatives "values".  It took me many years (and 2 kids) to find my voice. Do I think this is Joy and Austin, most likely not, but it could be.  you can be Antichoice and anti Pearl at the same time.  It remains to be seen what kind of parents Joy and Austin will be, but I get the prepairing for the worst and hoping for the best mentality 

[Markie]

I hope Austin and Joy fall in love with their baby once he/she is here and quietly decide not to follow the Pearls' teachings. They are young and are spouting the fundy  party line, but hopefully once they bond with their baby they will decide to go their own way. I am happy they are living a bit away from both sets of grandparents. Wonder if they will have some help at first? 

Wonder if Joy and Austin know the sex of their baby or are truly waiting to be surprised when he/she is born? It is refreshing. I'm tired of Gender Revel parties. 

[nickelodeon]

44 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I'm not saying all this isn't true, but just because you aren't rocking the boat doesn't mean you have the same beliefs. For a long time I was very quiet about my life choices as I was afraid of what my parents would do if they found out I didn't agree with any Catholic teachings, I completely disagreed with their conservatives "values".  It took me many years (and 2 kids) to find my voice. Do I think this is Joy and Austin, most likely not, but it could be.  you can be Antichoice and anti Pearl at the same time.  It remains to be seen what kind of parents Joy and Austin will be, but I get the prepairing for the worst and hoping for the best mentality 

I guess, but is Austin (+Joy) still working at Fort Rock? If he is working on this event, then even if he's just "playing along", he's still actively helping to give the Pearls a platform and enabling other families to abuse their children. I really can't respect that.

[shock928]

*Trigger warning and possibly long post.

I'm sorry if this sounds overly dramatic - but I watched the Pearl video, and I stomached reading a few pages of the sample of the book on Amazon and I am horrified by the justifications they talk about in the interview. "My hands are for loving," he says after just speaking about "thumping" a four month olds hand away from his beard moments before. And then goes on to talk about TRAINING ANIMALS. Seriously, wtf. Yes, you CAN train animals with corporal punishment - and you know what else? THEY COWER when they know they are in trouble. Is this guy trying to say his kids weren't afraid of him? Please.

Yes, I was spanked as a child. I was also verbally and emotionally abused by my dad when I was a "rebellious teenager." He stopped spanking, but the yelling and name calling was just as scary. I find that the argument "I was spanked as a child and I'm okay," cannot be valid only because you don't know how you would have turned out otherwise. I got married to the first guy who was interested at 18 - mostly to get away and "adult" on my own. But he was also verbally and emotionally abusive and very controlling. (minor physical. he never hit, but he did grab and shake you.) I THOUGHT IT WAS TOTALLY NORMAL. I wondered why I was so depressed and unhappy. I wondered what was wrong with ME. It wasn't until I saw a therapist at 21 when she told me what controlling behavior and emotional abuse was, gave me many books to read when it all clicked. You don't know what you don't know. Whatever you think is normal is taught to you as normal. I divorced him. I am now married to a kind and loving person.

There is a lot of research by "those anti-Christian scientists and psychologists," that spanking just ONCE a month with a rod or hand or swatting whatever else you want to call it causes changes to the brain. (CNN, Psychology Today, American Psychological Association etc.)

I have 3 kids under 3 and a half years old in rapid succession so I think I have an idea of how it must feel to be overwhelmed in the sense of so many kids so young. (Albeit not 19 of them.) Yes, I get pushed to the brink sometimes, I yell more than I wish I did towards the end of my rope. But I would never hit, swat, thump, flick, spank. The extent of what I have done physically is to grab an arm before they hit each other, or get my butt over to the situation and move them to their room where they get a time out. Maybe my kids are less "well behaved" than other kids their age, but it's more important to me to teach them that they have a say in what someone does to their body, and they have a right to say something isn't fair, and a right to voice their emotions. A child that young has NOT fully developed a sense of self impulse control and my job is to teach them how to do so.

(Trigger)

My husband was raped as a young boy by a friends father. The man told him not to tell anyone, and he didn't, he never told his parents or anyone else until he was 18 and his life came crashing down around him mentally. I do NOT want to teach my kids that adults are all powerful. And that adults are never wrong, and that they cannot say NO or disagree with an adult. 

I shudder to think what this kind of "Training up a child" would do to a child who is developmentally disabled, or has any other special needs. Several months ago, my mother in law swatted my 20 month old son's hand after telling him NO several times and him not listening and getting into kitchen cabinets. I heard it, I know it happened, I didn't see it. I was horrified, it was after a two week visit, and we left. Well guess what? We found out my son has Sensory Processing Disorder (assessments for Autism are continuing) he is non verbal. The swat on the hand taught him nothing. I have to physically take him somewhere else for him to calm down that's the only way he can control his nervous system needs because he gets OVERWHELMED. He is NOT trying to disobey - he needs HELP with how to use self control. When his Developmental Therapist came she was in a round about way asking how we "discipline" and I flat out said, "I don't spank or hit. He gets calm down time, and if it's something he is about to do to hurt himself or others, I physically grab him." To which she said, "Good. He is a sensory seeker and craves input, so likely he would like physical punishment, and it wouldn't work anyway."

To talk about "Breaking a child's will," as Michael Pearl does-  sounds like to take away the spirit of someone, and train them up to become a subservient  who is afraid to speak up, and afraid to question. The perfect situation for predators, whether it be sexual, physical or emotional. 

[louisa05]

11 hours ago, Crazy Enough to Join said:

. Anyway, my point is, any Duggar adult who does not limit family size and insists on homeschooling and all that will, imo, end up following the Pearls' methods to try to rein in the insanity. Jessa included. Those Duggar adults who have less kids, assuming they aren't naturally cruel, will treat their children better. It's math more than religious conviction that drives parents to the Pearls' imo.

One of my best friends has seven children. The first four were twins slightly less than two years apart. At one point, she had six children under six years old. 

And she has never used any kind of physical discipline. She and her husband (in spite of being raised fundie-lite and still espousing much of that theology) are adamantly opposed to it. 

I also know several big Catholic families where physical discipline was not the norm. (Nor are "sister-moms" the norm for any of them). 

So, no, having a lot of children does not turn everyone into a child abuser. That is  kind of a nasty assumption about big families. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

39 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

I guess, but is Austin (+Joy) still working at Fort Rock? If he is working on this event, then even if he's just "playing along", he's still actively helping to give the Pearls a platform and enabling other families to abuse their children. I really can't respect that.

My point was  it took many years of child rearing and maturity (and I was 7 years older than Joy had a college degree and lived on my for for 5 years when I had my 1st child) to finally step away from my parents and tell them I thought they were wrong.  None of us know how any of these kidults will be in 10 years and X number of kids, hell THEY don't know what they will believe in 10 years because we don't know the future, we don't know what will happen in their lives good or bad. Just because they aren't speaking out against The Pearls does not mean they agree with them and are going to abuse their kids. 

[SamuraiKatz]

*Trigger warning and possibly long post.
I'm sorry if this sounds overly dramatic - but I watched the Pearl video, and I stomached reading a few pages of the sample of the book on Amazon and I am horrified by the justifications they talk about in the interview. "My hands are for loving," he says after just speaking about "thumping" a four month olds hand away from his beard moments before. And then goes on to talk about TRAINING ANIMALS. Seriously, wtf. Yes, you CAN train animals with corporal punishment - and you know what else? THEY COWER when they know they are in trouble. Is this guy trying to say his kids weren't afraid of him? Please.
Yes, I was spanked as a child. I was also verbally and emotionally abused by my dad when I was a "rebellious teenager." He stopped spanking, but the yelling and name calling was just as scary. I find that the argument "I was spanked as a child and I'm okay," cannot be valid only because you don't know how you would have turned out otherwise. I got married to the first guy who was interested at 18 - mostly to get away and "adult" on my own. But he was also verbally and emotionally abusive and very controlling. (minor physical. he never hit, but he did grab and shake you.) I THOUGHT IT WAS TOTALLY NORMAL. I wondered why I was so depressed and unhappy. I wondered what was wrong with ME. It wasn't until I saw a therapist at 21 when she told me what controlling behavior and emotional abuse was, gave me many books to read when it all clicked. You don't know what you don't know. Whatever you think is normal is taught to you as normal. I divorced him. I am now married to a kind and loving person.
There is a lot of research by "those anti-Christian scientists and psychologists," that spanking just ONCE a month with a rod or hand or swatting whatever else you want to call it causes changes to the brain. (CNN, Psychology Today, American Psychological Association etc.)
I have 3 kids under 3 and a half years old in rapid succession so I think I have an idea of how it must feel to be overwhelmed in the sense of so many kids so young. (Albeit not 19 of them.) Yes, I get pushed to the brink sometimes, I yell more than I wish I did towards the end of my rope. But I would never hit, swat, thump, flick, spank. The extent of what I have done physically is to grab an arm before they hit each other, or get my butt over to the situation and move them to their room where they get a time out. Maybe my kids are less "well behaved" than other kids their age, but it's more important to me to teach them that they have a say in what someone does to their body, and they have a right to say something isn't fair, and a right to voice their emotions. A child that young has NOT fully developed a sense of self impulse control and my job is to teach them how to do so.
(Trigger)
My husband was raped as a young boy by a friends father. The man told him not to tell anyone, and he didn't, he never told his parents or anyone else until he was 18 and his life came crashing down around him mentally. I do NOT want to teach my kids that adults are all powerful. And that adults are never wrong, and that they cannot say NO or disagree with an adult. 
I shudder to think what this kind of "Training up a child" would do to a child who is developmentally disabled, or has any other special needs. Several months ago, my mother in law swatted my 20 month old son's hand after telling him NO several times and him not listening and getting into kitchen cabinets. I heard it, I know it happened, I didn't see it. I was horrified, it was after a two week visit, and we left. Well guess what? We found out my son has Sensory Processing Disorder (assessments for Autism are continuing) he is non verbal. The swat on the hand taught him nothing. I have to physically take him somewhere else for him to calm down that's the only way he can control his nervous system needs because he gets OVERWHELMED. He is NOT trying to disobey - he needs HELP with how to use self control. When his Developmental Therapist came she was in a round about way asking how we "discipline" and I flat out said, "I don't spank or hit. He gets calm down time, and if it's something he is about to do to hurt himself or others, I physically grab him." To which she said, "Good. He is a sensory seeker and craves input, so likely he would like physical punishment, and it wouldn't work anyway."
To talk about "Breaking a child's will," as Michael Pearl does-  sounds like to take away the spirit of someone, and train them up to become a subservient  who is afraid to speak up, and afraid to question. The perfect situation for predators, whether it be sexual, physical or emotional. 

Thank you for saying this so eloquently. I tried to watch the Pearl video and couldn't watch more than a few minutes.

I had an upbringing similar to the one you described. With ongoing therapy I am putting things in perspective. My therapist validated two things:

1. what happened to me was not my fault.

2. I was absolutely right in not going down my parents dark path with my own children.

I pray the kidults listen to their hearts and not their childhood experiences with abusive adults.

[Daisy0322]

37 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

One of my best friends has seven children. The first four were twins slightly less than two years apart. At one point, she had six children under six years old.

Woah I think the headline here is that they had four kids under two! I can't imagine I plan on having four kids but that close together 

that would be a mad house if I was in charge lol 

[bananabread]

41 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

So, no, having a lot of children does not turn everyone into a child abuser. That is  kind of a nasty assumption about big families. 

I don't think it was meant as a "all big families abuse their kids" argument. I think the original poster was just saying that a fundie mom overwhelmed with eleventy kids and trapped with them 24/7 is more likely to use the Pearls' method out of desperation than a fundie mom with a "normal" amount of kids and more time/patience. Which sounds like a reasonable point to me.

Of course, there are small families with abusive parents, and there are large families with wonderful parents. But in the fundie world, the women drowning in children tend to come across as more dismissive, authoritative, and disciplinarian. You can even see how their attitudes change when they go from 3-4 children to 10+ (ex. Zsu Zsu).

[SweetJuly]

I am curious to see how Joy and Austin will cope with having a child.

It seems that the Duggar daughters so far surprised us all a little. Jessa by how easily she seemed to take on motherhood, and Jill by the exact opposite.

I have a hard time picturing Joy and Austin as parents. For some reason they don't seem very ready. While Joy definitely has more experience with babies and little children than I do, she seems so immature and insecure, like the teenager she so recently was. Austin seems like a guy who has no idea what children are, how they develop, and how you deal with them in an age-appropriate way. And I don't mean that necessarily in a bad way; many men have little to do with children until they become fathers themselves. But somehow deep down I fear that Austin, unlike many other men, would not even be particularly willing to learn more about children. I could see him easily getting annoyed with his kid when s/he does not obey readily enough.

So having said that, maybe those two will surprise us.  Maybe they aim to employ the Pearls' methods, but will find it too much work to adhere to all the rules and finally make it all up as they go along and discover what works for them and their baby. Maybe Joy will be a very sweet, laid-back mother; maybe less polished in her appearance and social media presence than Jessa, but fun and kind and loving. And maybe Austin will remember how his strict upbringing hurt him when he was little himself, and turn out to be a wonderful dad.

My hopes are not high, but I am keeping them up for the sake of their innocent baby

[ClutchingMyPearls1984]

1 hour ago, shock928 said:

*Trigger warning and possibly long post.

I'm sorry if this sounds overly dramatic - but I watched the Pearl video, and I stomached reading a few pages of the sample of the book on Amazon and I am horrified by the justifications they talk about in the interview. "My hands are for loving," he says after just speaking about "thumping" a four month olds hand away from his beard moments before. And then goes on to talk about TRAINING ANIMALS. Seriously, wtf. Yes, you CAN train animals with corporal punishment - and you know what else? THEY COWER when they know they are in trouble. Is this guy trying to say his kids weren't afraid of him? Please.

Yes, I was spanked as a child. I was also verbally and emotionally abused by my dad when I was a "rebellious teenager." He stopped spanking, but the yelling and name calling was just as scary. I find that the argument "I was spanked as a child and I'm okay," cannot be valid only because you don't know how you would have turned out otherwise. I got married to the first guy who was interested at 18 - mostly to get away and "adult" on my own. But he was also verbally and emotionally abusive and very controlling. (minor physical. he never hit, but he did grab and shake you.) I THOUGHT IT WAS TOTALLY NORMAL. I wondered why I was so depressed and unhappy. I wondered what was wrong with ME. It wasn't until I saw a therapist at 21 when she told me what controlling behavior and emotional abuse was, gave me many books to read when it all clicked. You don't know what you don't know. Whatever you think is normal is taught to you as normal. I divorced him. I am now married to a kind and loving person.

There is a lot of research by "those anti-Christian scientists and psychologists," that spanking just ONCE a month with a rod or hand or swatting whatever else you want to call it causes changes to the brain. (CNN, Psychology Today, American Psychological Association etc.)

I have 3 kids under 3 and a half years old in rapid succession so I think I have an idea of how it must feel to be overwhelmed in the sense of so many kids so young. (Albeit not 19 of them.) Yes, I get pushed to the brink sometimes, I yell more than I wish I did towards the end of my rope. But I would never hit, swat, thump, flick, spank. The extent of what I have done physically is to grab an arm before they hit each other, or get my butt over to the situation and move them to their room where they get a time out. Maybe my kids are less "well behaved" than other kids their age, but it's more important to me to teach them that they have a say in what someone does to their body, and they have a right to say something isn't fair, and a right to voice their emotions. A child that young has NOT fully developed a sense of self impulse control and my job is to teach them how to do so.

(Trigger)

My husband was raped as a young boy by a friends father. The man told him not to tell anyone, and he didn't, he never told his parents or anyone else until he was 18 and his life came crashing down around him mentally. I do NOT want to teach my kids that adults are all powerful. And that adults are never wrong, and that they cannot say NO or disagree with an adult. 

I shudder to think what this kind of "Training up a child" would do to a child who is developmentally disabled, or has any other special needs. Several months ago, my mother in law swatted my 20 month old son's hand after telling him NO several times and him not listening and getting into kitchen cabinets. I heard it, I know it happened, I didn't see it. I was horrified, it was after a two week visit, and we left. Well guess what? We found out my son has Sensory Processing Disorder (assessments for Autism are continuing) he is non verbal. The swat on the hand taught him nothing. I have to physically take him somewhere else for him to calm down that's the only way he can control his nervous system needs because he gets OVERWHELMED. He is NOT trying to disobey - he needs HELP with how to use self control. When his Developmental Therapist came she was in a round about way asking how we "discipline" and I flat out said, "I don't spank or hit. He gets calm down time, and if it's something he is about to do to hurt himself or others, I physically grab him." To which she said, "Good. He is a sensory seeker and craves input, so likely he would like physical punishment, and it wouldn't work anyway."

To talk about "Breaking a child's will," as Michael Pearl does-  sounds like to take away the spirit of someone, and train them up to become a subservient  who is afraid to speak up, and afraid to question. The perfect situation for predators, whether it be sexual, physical or emotional. 

Body autonomy is a big thing. I have a rough history in my family, and when I was expecting my child, I panicked at even the thought of spanking. I had already prepped to teach my child about body safety, consent, tricky people, etc.

Following a method like the Pearls goes beyond hand swats and a “pop” on the behind. People I know who use the method teach their kids to *NEVER* say no to an adult. Never disrespect an adult. Does not have any control over their body (from hair style, clothing, shoes, etc.). In fact, these parents will go against their child’s wishes just to prove a point and make them obey. Even if it means a spanking.

It is absolutely no surprise when you consider the above and what methods the Duggars associated with. I hope that their kids take that, and make better decisions for their own children. Not to repeat history.

[Seculardaisy]

3 hours ago, SweetJuly said:

I am curious to see how Joy and Austin will cope with having a child.

It seems that the Duggar daughters so far surprised us all a little. Jessa by how easily she seemed to take on motherhood, and Jill by the exact opposite.

I have a hard time picturing Joy and Austin as parents. For some reason they don't seem very ready. While Joy definitely has more experience with babies and little children than I do, she seems so immature and insecure, like the teenager she so recently was. Austin seems like a guy who has no idea what children are, how they develop, and how you deal with them in an age-appropriate way. And I don't mean that necessarily in a bad way; many men have little to do with children until they become fathers themselves. But somehow deep down I fear that Austin, unlike many other men, would not even be particularly willing to learn more about children. I could see him easily getting annoyed with his kid when s/he does not obey readily enough.

So having said that, maybe those two will surprise us.  Maybe they aim to employ the Pearls' methods, but will find it too much work to adhere to all the rules and finally make it all up as they go along and discover what works for them and their baby. Maybe Joy will be a very sweet, laid-back mother; maybe less polished in her appearance and social media presence than Jessa, but fun and kind and loving. And maybe Austin will remember how his strict upbringing hurt him when he was little himself, and turn out to be a wonderful dad.

My hopes are not high, but I am keeping them up for the sake of their innocent baby

This is how I actually feel about Jeremy. He is always so awkward with the kids on CO. He seemed completely shocked and agitated by Spurgeon's behavior when they were in Laredo. I think it will be a difficult adjustment for him.

On 2/2/2018 at 3:02 PM, IReallyAmHopewell said:

Willingly, Immediately. Don't forget the "right response" training. Practicing instant obedience.  If Daddy says "hit the baby as hard as you can," the kid has to do it.  Sick.

I used to coach preschool gymnastics and I had a four year old student ask me "Coach, did I obey you?" And I just instantly felt upset at the word "obey" and in my mind felt so sad for the little girl. It was a loaded question and I could tell she was feeling anxious and on her toes about her behavior during the class. 

[Jellybean]

That’s really sad. Words like that do take on added meaning and pile on the guilt and emotional pressure. Poor kids. 

[VBOY9977]

23 minutes ago, Seculardaisy said:

This is how I actually feel about Jeremy. He is always so awkward with the kids on CO. He seemed completely shocked and agitated by Spurgeon's behavior when they were in Laredo. I think it will be a difficult adjustment for him.

I agree!

Plus Austin has various nieces so he probably knows a thing or two babies. He also grew up in a fundie community where babies are always being born so he’s probably been around more.

still, we’ll obviously have to wait and see how everything turns out

[Evangeline]

5 hours ago, louisa05 said:

One of my best friends has seven children. The first four were twins slightly less than two years apart. At one point, she had six children under six years old. 

And she has never used any kind of physical discipline. She and her husband (in spite of being raised fundie-lite and still espousing much of that theology) are adamantly opposed to it. 

I also know several big Catholic families where physical discipline was not the norm. (Nor are "sister-moms" the norm for any of them). 

So, no, having a lot of children does not turn everyone into a child abuser. That is  kind of a nasty assumption about big families. 

Also, some of the shittiest, most abusive parents I've ever known have one or two kids. I do think people are more likely to get overwhelmed if they have too many kids, but a lot more goes into that than simple math. Some people who are very good with children have many of them. Some people who suck at it stop at one or two but still aren't great with the ones they had. 

Coming back to add more, LOL. People also respond to being overwhelmed differently. My parents didn't do Pearl-style discipline, but they were big Dobson fans. When they got overwhelmed with later kids (and life), they didn't double down on the physical discipline, they basically gave up altogether. So, the older kids in the family were very disciplined and the youngest ones ran wild.   

[Cheetah]

4 hours ago, ClutchingMyPearls1984 said:

Following a method like the Pearls goes beyond hand swats and a “pop” on the behind. People I know who use the method teach their kids to *NEVER* say no to an adult. Never disrespect an adult. Does not have any control over their body (from hair style, clothing, shoes, etc.). In fact, these parents will go against their child’s wishes just to prove a point and make them obey. Even if it means a spanking.

 

Recently I was in a shop and there was a little girl, probably 2, having a bit of a meltdown.  Her dad was getting angry with her and said, "you may not say 'no' to me".   I sympathize with having to deal with kids that age when they aren't being reasonable, but that sentence just got to me.  I didn't step in, but that kind of demanding/authoritarian parenting really bothers me.  

[Jenn The Heathen]

We use 1-2-3 Magic with our kids and it’s a sanity saver.  Basically, we ask them once to stop a behavior.  If they don’t stop, we begin counting.  If we get to 3, it’s a time-out, one minute for each year of age.  I don’t care about the location of the timeout, either.  My kids have had timeouts in all sorts of public settings.

The reason I bring it up is that I once had a play date with someone I knew from high school (but didn’t really know well) who had kids around the same age as mine.  Her kids were so poorly behaved and she complained about having no control over them.  I told her about 1-2-3 Magic and she said it’ll never work, she’ll just keep losing her mind and when her husband gets home from work, he would spank them for all the bad things they had done when he wasn’t home.  I feel bad, but we never had another play date with them again.  She went on to have a third kid and I couldn’t believe it. 

[Jana814]

I ran into my ex-friend about 3 weeks ago. I was happy to hear she didn't have kids (which I was worried about). Her husband has a son who is 20, apparently even he spanked is son till he was 12. I was disgusted when she said that.