Josiah Duggar: Part 5

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

2 minutes ago, VBOY9977 said:

https://radaronline.com/photos/josiah-duggar-lauren-swanson-touching-cuddling-kissing-breaking-courting-rules/

 

paparazzi pics of Josiah and Lauren!!! 

Pretty touchy!

You beat me to it. The sin of it all, they TOUCHED!! GAHHH!!  Off to the prayer closet to clutch my pearls and I have no idea.

[kachuu]

4 minutes ago, VBOY9977 said:

https://radaronline.com/photos/josiah-duggar-lauren-swanson-touching-cuddling-kissing-breaking-courting-rules/

 

paparazzi pics of Josiah and Lauren!!! 

Pretty touchy!

Their faces definitely look close, but arguably not kissing.

[Mela99]

I sincerely doubt he would have kissed her. I just don't see it happening. Boob would have an aneurysm. 

[singsingsing]

Oh brother. I have to say, though, the description "A SERIES OF SHOCKING PHOTOS" made me laugh out loud. Yes... SHOCKING! He puts his hand on her back to help her down - MY GOD!!! 

Radar is such trash. They're obviously not kissing, but no-touch courtships went out of vogue with these people ages ago. There's nothing new to see here, beyond the fact that happily Josiah and Lauren apparently haven't adopted more conservative norms than his siblings did.

[SorenaJ]

He touched her! The horror! 

Another example of a situation where trousers would have been more convenient.

Do no-touching courtships mean no touching.. at all? No side-hugs? No handshakes, no nothing? What about when engaged? Still no touching?

[LilMissMetaphor]

18 hours ago, Nargus said:

Street here called Lagimodiere. My grandma swears that the family it was named after lived down the street from her, and it was pronounced ladge-mo-JEER.  Everyone else in the city pronounces it laj-MO-dee-yay.  

I struggle with lots of the street names when I drive in that city...

[singsingsing]

13 minutes ago, SorenaJ said:

Do no-touching courtships mean no touching.. at all? No side-hugs? No handshakes, no nothing? What about when engaged? Still no touching?

Depends on the couple. Some are completely no-touch. I remember one girl whose father had to put her engagement ring on her finger. It was that ridiculous. But the standards seem to have been growing more lax. Jill and Derick were embarrassed because they accidentally front-hugged. Jessa and Ben couldn't hold hands or sit next to each other in a cramped vehicle. Jinger and Jeremy didn't seem to have those rules. I think Joseph and Kendra avoided holding hands, but it wasn't no-touch (she was willing to dig in his pocket for a mint, after all).

[ScorpiousMalfoy]

23 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Oh brother. I have to say, though, the description "A SERIES OF SHOCKING PHOTOS" made me laugh out loud. Yes... SHOCKING! He puts his hand on her back to help her down - MY GOD!!! 

Radar is such trash. They're obviously not kissing, but no-touch courtships went out of vogue with these people ages ago. There's nothing new to see here, beyond the fact that happily Josiah and Lauren apparently haven't adopted more conservative norms than his siblings did.

OMG yes, the descriptions were so ridiculous.... The one about Joy "coming under fire" for touching Austins hand made me  Like honestly I'm no Duggar fan but scrutiny over every move is a bit unfair for those kids. And besides,  JinJer were super touchy, so the standard obviously loosened up a little

[PainfullyAware]

I kind of hate the implicit shaming going on with these type of trashy tabloid articles. Sure, the standards that these fundamentalist Christians set for their dating, errr courtships, are ridiculous. And it is kind of funny that completely normal interactions are considered 'shocking'. But I would prefer to see articles that positively reinforce normal behavior on the part of fundies 'Josiah and his new girlfriend enjoy an afternoon together like any other couple'. Kind of like the pants coverage for Jill and Jinger. By shaming them according to their own standards I worry that they just get driven back into their own corner and double down on publicly adhering to strict no touching rules.  

Especially for the women, the damage to their 'chaste reputation' caused by this kind of coverage might make them go backwards instead of forwards. I know it's awful to even have to consider the 'reputation' component in this day and age when we should be past the madonna/whore stereotype. But the reality for these women is that their reputation is still a critical factor in the fundie community. It's the same concern for women like Joy who got accused of premarital sex because they become pregnant so quickly.

[Fascinated]

What I gleaned from these photos:

1) I don’t think they were even holding hands, let alone kissing. 

2) They appear to be relaxed and happy with each other.

3) I’m an asshole for giving Radar Online a click. 

[purplepeony]

Remembered everyone ‘each couple chooses their own rules’ so during the in depth chats about the exact amount of skin contact allowed ‘lifting down from military vehicles in full view of cameras’ must have been a mutually agreed acceptable level of contact as long as prayed about with both sets of parents. Nearly as scandalous as resting your arm on someone so you don’t hit the floor while skating (Kendra). 

[Georgiana]

31 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Depends on the couple. Some are completely no-touch. I remember one girl whose father had to put her engagement ring on her finger. It was that ridiculous. But the standards seem to have been growing more lax. Jill and Derick were embarrassed because they accidentally front-hugged. Jessa and Ben couldn't hold hands or sit next to each other in a cramped vehicle. Jinger and Jeremy didn't seem to have those rules. I think Joseph and Kendra avoided holding hands, but it wasn't no-touch (she was willing to dig in his pocket for a mint, after all).

There may have been others, but the story I remember of this was Kristina's.  She ALSO had a "courtship ruler" that she carried on all their "dates" and placed between them to ensure they were never closer than 6 inches.  She got her proposal in an Arby's, where her chaperone father removed her purity ring and placed her engagement ring on her finger because courtship ruler was still in effect up until the vows were said.

Interestingly, she has moved away from many fundie tenants.  For example, she has realized that her own lack of education makes her less than fit to home school (she gave us the infamous "soak and wet"), and so she has decided to mainstream her kids when she is no longer able to teach them.  Last time she was here, she was anticipating that this would be sometime in primary school.  I have to give her credit, because the reason she was homeschooling for pre-K was because she GENUINELY ENJOYS teaching her kids.  It's actually really sad that she's unable to teach well, because I think she would have been a wonderful early childhood educator.  But she put her preferences and dogma aside for the best interests of her kids, and I respect that.  

She also got into family planning as well.  Ok, it was via yams, but even openly advocating for a form of family planning is a big deal for these folks.  

I think for many 2nd gen fundies, the golden veneer is wearing thin on the turd.  

[justoneoftwo]

Family planning via yams?  I have heard people claim that boosts fertility but was she trying to use them to prevent?  And if so how?

[Rachel333]

54 minutes ago, PainfullyAware said:

Kind of like the pants coverage for Jill and Jinger. By shaming them according to their own standards I worry that they just get driven back into their own corner and double down on publicly adhering to strict no touching rules. 

I totally agree. I think the press coverage must make those changes so much harder for them to make.

[MargaretElliott]

4 hours ago, Knight of Ni said:

So how do you pronounce Worcestershire? 

Wuh-ster-sheer. There's a city near me called Worcester, pronounce wuh-ster. The u sound is weird, like the "uh" you make when you'e confused about something. Also, because this is new England, the r is purely optional. Wuh-stah is also legitimate.

Also, he helped her get down off a high place where she could have hurt herself. Oh no. The scandal. He should have just let her break her ankle. And sitting close to each other, turning to talk to each other? Who does that? They should keep her cloistered with a veil over her face, only allowed to speak to Josiah through a screen so he's not defrauded by her. This is some weird pseudo-slut-shaming that should have ended a couple centuries ago. 

[LimeKitty]

I am curious as to what kind of paparazzi follows the Duggars to New Zealand? Those sure look like pap pics to me. Are they really THAT big of celebrities to be stalked and photographed like that? 

[Dogalog]

I think it's hilarious that any papps in New Zealand actually knew who they were.

[JillyO]

17 minutes ago, LimeKitty said:

I am curious as to what kind of paparazzi follows the Duggars to New Zealand? Those sure look like pap pics to me. Are they really THAT big of celebrities to be stalked and photographed like that? 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure no one followed them to NZ. Rumor has it they have paparazzi there too.

[LimeKitty]

2 minutes ago, JillyO said:

Yeah, I'm pretty sure no one followed them to NZ. Rumor has it they have paparazzi there too.

Haha, right. I guess what I meant was how famous are they in NZ? I don't even think they are all that famous in the US. Most people that saw them would just think they were a couple of kids playing around on a cannon, or whatever the heck that thing is that Josiah was riding. 

[HavetheyheardofBeyonce]

As a NZer I have been wondering the same thing. We have TLC and Counting On etc here through our Cable but I don’t sense The Duggars and Bates feature much in public awareness. I have a pretty varied group of friends and we have never discussed them lol. We are probably more atune to (and more likely to recognise) celebs connected to Peter Jackson’s movies. I saw Liv Tyler once at a cafe.

 

I have also been curious about how many NZers are even interested in/aligned to IBLP. The most recent stats here around religious affiliation show the number of people affiliated to any religion is declining. The most visible churches through the media and my Facebook lol seem to be the Hillsong type mega churches. All in all I doubt the Duggars were speaking to many converted or interested people.

[Georgiana]

2 hours ago, justoneoftwo said:

Family planning via yams?  I have heard people claim that boosts fertility but was she trying to use them to prevent?  And if so how?

Yes, so according to her blog, the RIGHT DOSE of yams is effective at preventing pregnancy, I believe by preventing ovulation but it was all woo to me, so I'm not claiming to be accurate on the """"science"""" there.  

But if you take TOO MANY yams, it boosts your fertility.  She did admit that.  

Now to me, something that could potentially INCREASE my fertility is not a good candidate for use in PREVENTING pregnancy as the risk there is incredibly high, BUT she's also the first 2nd Gen fundie I've seen so far be open about ANY sort of attempt at family planning/preventing pregnancy, so I have to give her credit for that.  

Unlike most 2nd gen-ers, who seem to either stay the course or quietly move away, Kristina has openly confronted many of her parents' beliefs, been open about the way her parents' choices failed her (see: education), and made different decisions for her own family without advocating for a full break.  I think this is an incredibly brave and needed response from the 2nd Generation, and I would like to see more 2nd gen adults who are clearly not following their parents rules be more OPEN about WHY they have chosen a different path, even when that means criticizing their parents.  I think it's important for people to hear from 2nd gen fundies about how their parents' choices impacted them: both positively and negatively.  

[Rachel333]

I've seen a lot of second generation people talk about why they've moved away from their parents' beliefs. Look at groups like Homeschoolers Anonymous and Recovering Grace. I forget the stats exactly, but most people who were homeschooled do not choose to homeschool their own children.

[Tangy Bee]

Dang man, I'm VERY disappointed.  I actually pulled over at a gas station to see a Duggar kissing before marriage. Yes that sounds nuts but for some reason I want a Bates or a Duggar to break a code that has nothing to do with fashion. I still believe if Zach Bates had said he had NO guilt or regrets about kissing, then it might not have been a big deal for "some" of the others.

[Georgiana]

14 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

I've seen a lot of second generation people talk about why they've moved away from their parents' beliefs. Look at groups like Homeschoolers Anonymous and Recovering Grace. I forget the stats exactly, but most people who were homeschooled do not choose to homeschool their own children.

Yes, sorry, I should have clarified:  I've seen people make open breaks, but I think more nuanced criticism the way Kristina provides it where she still identifies as a member of a highly conservative/fundie-lite Christian community but openly questions many of the practices her parents raised her with is what is lacking.  I would say it would be akin to Alyssa or Zach Bates being more open about why THEY have chosen not to adhere to all their parents' rules, while still identifying with the conservative Christian community overall.  

The way people take criticism from someone who has left the community and is perhaps anti- the community you want to raise your kids in is VERY different than the way they will receive critical views from someone who is still a member of the community.  Conservative Christians are unlikely to be as open to the criticism from sources like Recovering Grace as they would be to similar criticism from sources they trust like Kristina or the grown Bates/Duggars.  

[Sky with diamonds]

Those pics were a let down. I wanted crazy hand sex like Josh and Anna...

Or maybe not.

I'm glad J and L seem so at ease with other. Is Radaronline that desperate for attention though?