Joy and Austin 18: 234 Days Since the Wedding and Counting

[Coconut Flan]

Continued from here:

Fat shaming, fundamentalist vs evangelical, and getting to the last month of pregnancy all in the name of snark.

[victoriasponge]

Joy loves Austin etc. 

 

I don’t know how to format this better sorry.

[Iamtheway]

Good for you Joy! 

OMG I have such a dirty mind right now. I’ll just show myself to the prayer closet. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

49 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

I'll give an example to explain what I'm trying to say. I think there is a difference between Christians that attend Bob Jones University vs. Wheaton College.

I have no idea what this means.  

Have either of them said anything to express a different worldview than they have espoused since they were in frumpers?  I am very interested in any statements they've made that indicate a shift away.

There is no way to discern the motivations of why anyone does anything based on their tv appearances and social media; we have no idea what they are thinking, feeling, or truly believe.  Words however, matter.  A lot.

It doesn't need to be a major declaration disavowing IBLP.  A public remark praising one of their little sisters talents outside the "approved for girls" box ....musing about how they hope they go to college and how exciting it will be to see what Little Girl Fundy does with her talent for math when she grows up...outside of use it to be a great homeschooling mommy who can teach the next gen what per-pen-dick-u-lar means.

Any casual remark that indicates they see valid futures for little girls outside of wife and mommy.  Or that marriage/children is an option, not a predrawn conclusion if it happens and tragedy if it doesn't.  Or use (and admit to using) a home school curriculum respected for it's educational substance along with regular testing to make sure they are meeting the educational needs of their kids.

Cathy Arndt managed to raise kids in coltish religious belief system while still homeschooling like a boss.  I sure as hell wouldn't consider her mainstream, but a Duggar attending a SOTDRT with an emphasis on the importance of education and being able to function in the real world would be indicative of movement away from some of the dangerous beliefs.  

Or, heaven forbid, sent them to school.  Doesn't even have to be public, but a non-cultish mainstream private school.  Even enroll them in activities outside of the cult (local park district sports, art, music, whatever) because they think it's good for the kids to socialize outside of their tiny circle.  

Or any of a million things that would show they have moved away from the lockstep mentality in substantive ways.  

Pants?  For all we know they wore skirts because JB and J'chelle ordered them to and now they are wearing pants because their new headship has different rules.  Who knows?

 

 

[Carm_88]

Oh my, this again. Jill and Jinger aren't trading in their beliefs. They are doing just as they did in the move from frumpers to jean skirts and polo shirts. Changed their style! Beliefs are the same shit as always. 

So in other words, they painted the barn but if you open it, it's still full of shit. 

[CaricatureQualities]

Joy to Austin "through the pregnancy you've given and given so much and never expected anything in return". That's nice but he is technically expecting her to have his baby. I think the labour and delivery might be a good return on his 'giving and giving' to her as she's carrying the child.  Just sayin'

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, CaricatureQualities said:

Joy to Austin "through the pregnancy you've given and given so much and never expected anything in return". That's nice but he is technically expecting her to have his baby. I think the labour and delivery might be a good return on his 'giving and giving' to her as she's carrying the child.  Just sayin'

Ha!  I can't mock...when I'm in love I'm every bit as OTT smitten as this despite being old and jaded.  

[artdecades]

How do fundies justify using "christ-like" as a description like that? It seems sorta blasphemous to me. But im just a secular heathen jew so what do I know.

[CaricatureQualities]

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Ha!  I can't mock...when I'm in love I'm every bit as OTT smitten as this despite being old and jaded.  

Well that's a good thing! What's the fun in falling in love if you can't be smitten? 

I think it's great if Austin is being an awesome husband to Joy and I hope that includes a lot of foot rubs for her. It's also sweet that she praises him for nice things he does. That's that way it should be right? They are a team. They seem to like being a team and flipping houses and such together so hopefully when the baby is born they will continue as a team.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 minutes ago, CaricatureQualities said:

Well that's a good thing! What's the fun in falling in love if you can't be smitten? 

I think it's great if Austin is being an awesome husband to Joy and I hope that includes a lot of foot rubs for her. It's also sweet that she praises him for nice things he does. That's that way it should be right? They are a team. They seem to like being a team and flipping houses and such together so hopefully when the baby is born they will continue as a team.

Yep - I'd rather see people err on the side of gushy when sincerely thanking their spouses than being too stingy with kind words.  I think it's cute.   

[nickelodeon]

2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Have either of them said anything to express a different worldview than they have espoused since they were in frumpers?  I am very interested in any statements they've made that indicate a shift away.

 

It is interesting that the headships have made public statements about their stance on certain IBLP/Duggarhive rules - Jeremy's sermon about alcohol, and Derick's tweet from last week(?) about how he doesn't believe that wearing skirts exclusively is biblical - but the women have been completely silent. I wish we could hear what they think.

[nastyhobbitses]

Why do I get the feeling that "giving and giving" translates to "occasionally offers to do a chore when she is obviously tired"? 

[Bad Wolf]

I wonder what the women would say. If they say they always wanted to wear pants, it would upset their parents. If they say their husbands like it, they still seem controlled. Who knows? And honestly, I don't really care.

[albireo]

Replying to @Whatthefundie: (I stillll can't get this quoting from other threads thing worked out)

Quote

I have been lurking on this site for a while now, and this is my first post! I know this is completely off topic, but do you guys think that any of the Duggars would attempt to have a home birth if they were having twins? 

I think some of them would. I would expect Jill to try. There are plenty of gung-ho crunchy pregnancy bloggers who have talked about home births in various complicating situations like twins and breech, and we already know Jill was willing to labor at home with Izzy when he was breech. I also think Jessa would try it. What happened with Spurge didn't scare her off delivering at home even with the risk of future complications. Anna maybe too, though I don't remember if she's had any major complications so I wouldn't know how she would respond.

[CaricatureQualities]

21 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

It is interesting that the headships have made public statements about their stance on certain IBLP/Duggarhive rules - Jeremy's sermon about alcohol, and Derick's tweet from last week(?) about how he doesn't believe that wearing skirts exclusively is biblical - but the women have been completely silent. I wish we could hear what they think.

Yes. Dericks tweet on that didn't satisfy me (but do they ever satisfy anyone?). 1) because can we hear from the ladies on this? Any of them and 2) because he basically said he didn't think wearing a skirt would save you yada yada BUT never have Michelle or the rest of them claimed that. The skirts were a conviction of Michelle's that JB and the rest of them adopted as a way to honour the Lord and a way to assert their woman-ness, same with the hair.  So no duh Derick.

Still want one of the women to address it though. But the question I would ask specifically to get anything close to an answer that might satisfy me would be "You have started wearing pants as opposed to skirts. While your fam has never said this was a necessity for Christians it has been a family conviction for years and beyond that a public brand... can you talk about why you have taken that off the list of your personal convictions? Also, aren't pants really nifty sometimes?!"

[SassyPants]

How can every Duggar lady have the BEST husband in the world????

So special, aren't they?

[cascarones]

While I don’t think external changes in appearance carry the same weight as words or confessions of change in faith, I do know it can be part of the process. Part of my family is fundie and try to live biblically, when my cousin first entered her “crisis of faith” stage and began questioning she tested the waters a bit at time in changes to her appearance, I think to see where the limit was. It was gradual, she stopped getting the frizzy perm, moved away from the blonde highlights next (which got a lot of pushback since it showed off instead of hide her darker complexion). She didn’t vocalize what she calls a fracture of faith (because the pieces never quite fit back together the same) until she had gained some financial indepence. When she lost that she reverted back and I think that it’s an important thing to keep in context during these discussions.

Yes, Jeremy and Derick allow their wives to wear pants, but it’s much more nuanced and complex than simply than the preference of the headship. There are deep psychological components to being raised to be meek, to please and obey that don’t magically wind up on the floor with the chopped off hair post breakup. Like with any other big decision the questioning voice in a person’s head can take a long time to make it to their lips and into the world, if at all.  I think we’re seeing a lot of that right now in the #metoo movement, things that were left unsaid and unaddressed are bubbling up and erupting now.

I’m not a fan of weight discussions, personally I think it’s something personal to most people and it’s compounded by the fact it is a part of how we present ourselves to the world. You can’t truly disguise it like ugly beliefs, there is no wolf in sheeps clothing.

 

[BlondeIdol]

I agree with what most people here have been saying that Jill/Jinger wearing pants, getting nose piercings and what not don't mean they've changed their beliefs. It's exactly the same as when they moved from wearing prairie dresses to wearing more regular looking clothes. 

However, I do think it means that they're moving away from their parents authority a little bit, which is natural as Jill and Jinger are married women in their 20s. Most people do this as teenagers/when they move out or whatever. I don't think we'll be seeing Jana or the younger girls or even Joy in pants anytime soon. Honestly, in Jill's case her whole "I am wearing pants and have my nose pierced now" comes off as laughably transparent. 

Jeremy and Derick are both crazy and I don't care what they say about pants. I'll listen when the women talk. I want to know what they think but they'll probably never talk about it which proves the whole point that nothing has changed, really.

 

[VBOY9977]

So Duggar family official posted this pic:: 

The initials say it could be either Joy and Austin’s place or Turd and Anna’s... but I have the feeling it’s Joy and Austin’s. From the few pics we’ve gotten of Turd and Anna’s house it doesn’t seem like the same place.

It also doesn’t remind me that much the place Austin was renovating, so it could be a temporary place also (either that or they didn’t feel like decorating the walls that much)

[Carm_88]

Why does Jill keep making that face? Love and honour of Christ. You can put the fake surprised face away. 

Also is JD reading instructions for cold medication to Austin? 

[flycat]

It’s medicine for livestock...and I think Austin is on the couch buried in his phone next to Kendra.

Crazy party when you have to pull out the cow medicine....

[Carm_88]

1 minute ago, flycat said:

It’s medicine for livestock...and I think Austin is on the couch buried in his phone next to Kendra.

Crazy party when you have to pull out the cow medicine....

That's Joe next to Kendra. 

[Beermeet]

Staaap it Jill!!  

[Rachel333]

Personally it was really difficult for me to start wearing things that I had been taught were immodest, and the standards of modesty I was raised with were much less strict, less emphasized, and less clearly defined than the standards the Duggars were raised with. I also never had thousands of people ready to give their opinions on those changes, which I'm sure would have made it even harder for me.

It's not that way for everyone, but just based on my own experience it's hard for me to dismiss Jinger and Jill wearing pants as insignificant when they spent their lives believing that skirts were an important part of being modest for them.

At the same time, of course I don't think that, lacking any other evidence, those changes in apparel represent a big change in their core beliefs.

[Kelsey]

JD looks hot, and I don't mean sexy. He looks like a sweaty mess. AND- he's wearing JB's shirt. WTF is Jill surprised about? Can someone teach her how to smile normally for a picture instead of being SHOCKED!!!! EVERY.SINGLE.TIME.