Dillards 49: Dull Dillards Dulling

[EmmieJ]

10 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

The Catholic Church and the Duggars are both complicit in child sexual abuse. 

How anyone can condemn the Duggars while letting the Catholic Church have a “pass” is beyond me. 

I was raised Catholic, but began to question certain beliefs and doctrines in my 20's.  First and foremost, I just had a hard time blaming Eve for the fall.  Right off, the guy gets zero blame!   In my home, we were treated as equal.  Men were not inherently superior.  I witnessed my parents always working together as a team, both bringing something vital and of equal importance to the marriage.  But the final straw was learning about the sexual abuse, and worse, the Church covering it up for decades.  I just stopped all church at that point.  Many Catholics did also.  But many stayed and continued to try to make their church and their community a better place.  Just because someone chose to remain part of the Church, doesn't mean they are a bad person.  

[HarryPotterFan]

2 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Y’all are probably gonna downvote the shit outta this, but my first thought was they’d lobotomized the baby and that was the bandage from the procedure.

 

Lol

So THAT’S how they get everyone to fall in line...

Apparently Dillweed addressed the pants issue

http://www.theashleysrealityroundup.com/2018/01/12/former-counting-on-star-derick-dillard-finally-addresses-why-his-wife-jill-dillard-can-now-wear-pants/

Quote

When a fan asked in the photo’s comment section why Jill was wearing pants if the Duggars believe women should always be in skirts (and have long hair), Derick responded.

“No, I don’t believe that,” Derick wrote. “That isn’t anywhere close to what the Bible teaches…The Bible says nothing about wearing skirts or having certain hair to be saved. It is a gift from God; none of our merits will save us.”

But what’s this shit about none of our merits saving us? Is this why he has no merits? Don’t be a good person because G-d doesn’t care?

[singsingsing]

9 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

But what’s this shit about none of our merits saving us? Is this why he has no merits? Don’t be a good person because G-d doesn’t care?

That's just basic protestant Christian theology, I'm afraid. Salvation is by grace alone, a free gift from God. Nothing you do makes you righteous. Only accepting/believing in Jesus Christ grants you salvation (which is something you do, but don't think too hard about that - I think that's why Calvinists came up with the idea that only God's 'elect' people are saved). Conservative evangelicals seem to have taken this to mean that they can do whatever they feel like, while trying to control everyone else's behaviour, and they're 100% fine as long as they believe in Jesus.

[HarryPotterFan]

Oh DillDork, you make it too easy.

Spoiler

 

@singsingsing But if what you do doesn’t matter, why can’t you accept Jesus AND have a drug-fueled orgy?

[Georgiana]

 Salvation by Grace Evangelicals always struck me as being the Whose Line of religions:

"Welcome to Christianity where all the rules are made up and also none of them matter"

So like...why have them at all then?

I have nothing against it, I get the theological arguments for it, I happen to think they are strong.  BUT if you GENUINELY believe that NONE OF THIS MATTERS, why the HECK do you spend so much time on it?  "How you dress doesn't matter, but we're going to spend eleventy hours making up rules about how women should dress and only allow our sons to dress in outfits from Goobers-R-Us.", "Your hair doesn't matter, and God won't judge you for how you wear it, but WE will judge the SHIT out of you if you don't wear it the "right" way.", "Yeah, it's not going to ultimately matter, but lets pray over our infant's ovaries just for creepy fun points.", "Someone might mistake this person for another gender, which doesn't matter in the slightest, but let's throw a HUGE FIT about it anyway."  

Seriously.  That's a LOT of time wasted on things that don't matter.  Billy G wasted his ENTIRE LIFE making up rules that don't matter.  The Duggars, Bates, etc. destroyed their children's prospects over things that DON'T MATTER.  

The only thing that has been redeeming even slightly about this movement is the assumption that they do very honestly believe that what they are doing MATTERS.  If they don't even believe that, then they're nothing more than absolute monstrosities in Christian clothing.    

[justoneoftwo]

So as I understand it, doing all these things shows you are saved?  And may bring others to be saved?  And if you love Jesus then you'll want to do these things?  And you won't want to sin?  I think its something like that.  So your both saved by grace, but works are important too . . .

[HarryPotterFan]

5 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

So as I understand it, doing all these things shows you are saved?  And may bring others to be saved?  And if you love Jesus then you'll want to do these things?  And you won't want to sin?  I think its something like that.  So your both saved by grace, but works are important too . . .

Yeah, but if what you do doesn’t matter, why does it matter if you sin?

[justoneoftwo]

Just now, HarryPotterFan said:

Yeah, but if what you do doesn’t matter, why does it matter if you sin?

Um . . . as I understand it your sin means you haven't actually accepted Jesus?  So you have to redo so?  Also if you are Christian and you sin you will lead others into sin (and not accepting Jesus?) so you shouldn't do so.  I think? 

[Drala]

Derrick's emphasis on faith alone without the testimony of good works comes close to "easy believism"-- Just believe in Jesus and you'll be OK with God.  But what does it mean to have faith?  Is it simply a matter of professing to a certain set of ideas about Jesus?

[Rachel333]

They believe that sin hurts God and separates you from God. It's also wrong to hurt others and especially to prevent others from having their own relationship with God. They also believe that what you do on earth affects your rewards in Heaven.

I actually really don't think the characterization that they believe you can do whatever you feel like and be fine with Jesus is true. Just because they believe that faith alone is what saves you doesn't mean they don't think other things matter. It's kind of a sad interpretation to think that religious people only do right because they want to go to Heaven. For most religious people, that really isn't true. The faith-alone Christians want to please God on earth too. And exiting Christianity entirely, look at Jewish people who typically don't have a theology of an afterlife but still follow what they believe are God's rules anyway.

They also believe that "faith without works is dead," which they interpret to mean that, while faith alone is what saves you, if you really have faith then it will be evidenced by good works and "the fruit of the Spirit."

[Shadoewolf]

Another clue to the mystery of Sam. Posted for the twins' birthdays. Explains the complete silence.

[seashell1025]

Hmm, very interesting. Does anyone knowledgeable medically here to know what exactly is happening with Sam in the pic? 

[Shadoewolf]

My guess from limited experience is the circle at his temple is adhesive, likely for a nasal canula for oxygen. Or for protective eye covering for jaundice but he's home so likely he'd have a bili blanket or vest asnd not need the eye covering. There is a wire running down Jana's leg (some of which I cropped out) and you can see a faint red glow where Sam's feet would be which would indicate pulse ox monitor attached to his toe. 

The complete mystery and silence around his birth and these pics make me feel so sad for Sam, like dear God what did she do to that poor baby?!

[Daisy0322]

I'm a respiratory therapist, looking at this picture the tape on his face is totally in the wrong place for O2 and the the white cord looks like a pulse ox monitor. Poor kid if that's home O2 then that cannula is probably hurting his little nose. Not sure what it could be other than that though. I can come up with many scenarios for him needing home oxygen but I'm not very comfortable speculating on a baby's health and outcomes like that. 

[VelociRapture]

2 minutes ago, Shadoewolf said:

My guess from limited experience is the circle at his temple is adhesive, likely for a nasal canula for oxygen. Or for protective eye covering for jaundice but he's home so likely he'd have a bili blanket or vest asnd not need the eye covering. There is a wire running down Jana's leg (some of which I cropped out) and you can see a faint red glow where Sam's feet would be which would indicate pulse ox monitor attached to his toe. 

The complete mystery and silence around his birth and these pics make me feel so sad for Sam, like dear God what did she do to that poor baby?!

We don’t know what happened during his birth. It’s possible she made poor choices again... but it’s also possible something went wrong that had nothing to do with her choices. I do think it’s very likely Jill made some sort of bad decision that impacted Sam’s health, but I also think we should be cautious in assigning blame or casting judgement right now. 

As for the photo, it was posted elsewhere on the site already. @SassyPantsworked for years as a NICU Nurse and said the wire is likely an Oxygen monitor. She also said the bandage on his temple was placed wrong, but may have been used for a nasal cannula or (I think) some sort of feeding tube.

[SapphireSlytherin]

Can I just point out how absolutely beautiful Jana is in this photo?

[Furslippers15]

The fact that Jill and Jinger are wearing jeans is significant . It shows they are thinking apart from the families ultra conservative beliefs. Hopefully all the children will have the time and wisdom to question the tenants of their faith in which grew up.

[RosyDaisy]

It shows no such thing. It's a fashion statement, that's all. They still have the same evil beliefs. If anything, dressing more mainstream is a lure to entice new victims.

[grandmadugger]

I am guessing that TLC won’t address the gals wearing pants. I am sure Jinger will be in skirts or dresses for filming just like Whitney Bates. 

[Cleopatra7]

When comparing the Catholic Church to Gothardism, it might be useful to use Ernst Troeltsch’s Church vs sect dichotomy. According to Troeltsch, a church is a religious organization that has a monopoly on religion in any given society. The RCC is thus considered the Church par excellence. It encompasses all of society, from elites to the lower classes. It is comfortable with the status quo, and often plays an official or tacit role in government. However, this also means that there is a wide spectrum of piety within a church. While everyone may be a member on paper by virtue of belonging to the society in question, some people will be super devout, while others will only be going through the motions. One could argue (and some people have) that the Southern Baptist Convention functions like a church in the South, since it sets the norms about what is considered “proper religion.” By way of comparison, a sect is exclusive, high demand, and focuses on personal and communal perfection. Gothardism is a good example of a sect, since you have to actually apply for membership, as I recall. While the church-sect dichotomy assumes a Eurocentric religious ecology where state churches are a given, I think it helps explain why comparing the RCC to Gothardism is like comparing apples to oranges.

Being a church, the RCC is much larger than Gothardism. It also has much more cultural and racial diversity than the mono cultural Gothard Movement. This means that you can get a very different experience going to a Catholic parish in a different country or even a different neighborhood. Some parishes are more conservative or more liberal than others. Some even try to be LGBT friendly, although they have to do so quietly. The role women might play in any given community also varies a lot, although the decision ultimately comes down to what the male priests and bishops think. While Catholic women may have more individual freedom than their Gothardite peers, they still can’t make high level decisions within the Church. The RCC as an institution has a political reach than Gothard could only dream about, with observer status for the Holy See at the UN, Bishop conferences that operate as lobbying groups, and a leader that is a moral authority soley based on his position. At the same time, the pope can’t enforce the kind of uniformity that Gothard can, because the RCC isn’t a sect. Some parishes and orders may function as sects, but Francis can’t order all Catholic women to wear their hair in a certain manner like Gothard can.

[BlessaYourHeart]

13 hours ago, singsingsing said:

That's just basic protestant Christian theology, I'm afraid. Salvation is by grace alone, a free gift from God. Nothing you do makes you righteous. Only accepting/believing in Jesus Christ grants you salvation (which is something you do, but don't think too hard about that - I think that's why Calvinists came up with the idea that only God's 'elect' people are saved). Conservative evangelicals seem to have taken this to mean that they can do whatever they feel like, while trying to control everyone else's behaviour, and they're 100% fine as long as they believe in Jesus.

Not necessarily basic Protestant Theology. It’s basic Calvinist/Reformed Theology. Protestants are split between Calvinist Theology and Ariminian Theology for the most part. 

Calvinist’s in the UK are mainly Presbyterians. For me it’s strange that these people are baptist and follow Calvin, most baptists I know are Arminian. 

Calvin taught predestination. It says that Gods saving grace is efficacious. Basically God grants salvation to a group of people and they will always respond to the efficacious grace. They are God’s elect and no matter what will come to faith and reach salvation. Those not elect basically have no hope. 

Arminius taught prevenient grace. Basically God gives prevenient grace to all and it is each individuals choice with their free will whether to respond or not. The only election God does is through his foreknowledge of what a person will choose with their own free will. Therefore everyone has a chance at salvation if they respond to the grace and have faith. 

 

ETA: No matter which you follow though it’s all about justification by faith alone. The emphasis in both theological views is that the faith saves 

[TheMustardCardigan]

I agree that they will probably all still wear skirts/dresses for filming. But it'd be more interesting if they actually spent a couple minutes talking about it on Counting On. I'd like to see Jinger shopping for some of her new clothes and talking about what made her start wearing pants and dressing differently.

 

I don't think pants mean anything great about them having better beliefs, I think they still have toxic beliefs. But I do think it's an encouraging little change. They're not blindly following every single rule they grew up with. Even if it something minor like this, it's something. And I know the whole "Well, husbands are the headship so really they're still falling right in line with the Duggar plan if it's something their husband wants!" Buuuut I see that as more of a Duggar cop out. Like, if one of the girls got on the birth control pill 'because their headship was ok with it' I think JB and M would not approve of that at all. They like control over their children too much to just be okay with whatever the new headship decides every time.

[SapphireSlytherin]

43 minutes ago, TheMustardCardigan said:

But it'd be more interesting if they actually spent a couple minutes talking about it on Counting On.

But TLC doesn't play into the "more interesting" or "what people would like to see" productions. lol

[TheMustardCardigan]

@SapphireSlytherin of course not, that's why we see the wedding planning that we don't care about after we've already seen the damn wedding 

[singsingsing]

4 hours ago, BlessaYourHeart said:

ETA: No matter which you follow though it’s all about justification by faith alone. The emphasis in both theological views is that the faith saves 

That's what I meant by basic protestant theology. I should've clarified before delving into Calvinism.