Trouble in Paradise at Generation Cedar?

[Black Aliss]

1 hour ago, Hisey said:

All in all, I see a young kid who is going to have to struggle to succeed. You can see he feels frustrated. On his facebook, he writes about how he makes "due" (nice homeschooling, Kelly) with the money he has, but it seems so unfair that rappers make so much more.

So why doesn't he become a rapper? Or is that code-speak for "I may be semi-literate but I'm white and I resent the fact that there are black people who are more successful than I"?

[Hisey]

Kelly's son Aston is 18. He has a public instagram. Ashton seems like a kind, sweet boy. However, his instagram indicates that he has a rocky adolescence. He states over and over that he gave his parents a rough time growing up, even told them he hated them. He repeatedly thanks them for standing by him despite all the trouble he has given them.

Interestingly, Ashton left home a year ago this month. He shares an apartment in Birmingham and works at Chik Fil A. He reports that he has not yet finished high school and never liked school or studying. He may do some construction on the side with his dad, since he lists his dad's company (3:21 Builders) as his work on facebook.

I do think it's interesting that Kelly--the big homeschooling expert--has now produced one cleaning lady and daycare worker (Bria) and one fast food worker (Ashton). Does she think her results are so superior to public schooling? Yes, Ashton seems like he is modest and self-effacing --but his sister Bria does not. She is the smuggest thing in the world. So I can't say Kelly did a great job on character training. In terms of academics. . . well, Kelly, I'm just not impressed. Maybe in public school, Ashton could've gotten some training in art. My own artsy kid has learned a huge amount from her PS art teacher. Ashton is a talented artist but describes himself as "self-taught" on his art instagram. I don't think he ever had much instruction.

All in all, I see a young kid who is going to have to struggle to succeed. You can see he feels frustrated. On his facebook, he writes about how he makes "due" (nice homeschooling, Kelly) with the money he has, but it seems so unfair that rappers make so much more.

Kelly once wrote that she expected her sons to be entrepeneurs and employ others. . .she did not expect them to be employees. I wonder how she feels now? Yet how could she possibly expect them to be entrepeneurs without education or capital?

[Howl]

7 hours ago, Hisey said:

He shares an apartment in Birmingham and works at Chik Fil A. He reports that he has not yet finished high school and never liked school or studying.

So Ms. Superior Homeschooling Mom make school so miserable her son hated every minute of it?

Chik Fil A is the go to fast food employment for Christian kids.  This is so sad.  

[Hisey]

6 hours ago, Howl said:

So Ms. Superior Homeschooling Mom make school so miserable her son hated every minute of it?

Chik Fil A is the go to fast food employment for Christian kids.  This is so sad.  

Well, it is sad. The kid never had a chance.

So, Kelly, public school is worse than having a "teacher" who is continually pregnant and harassed with household duties?  You would almost think that a "classroom" that consists of nine younger siblings (including babies and toddlers) is not the best environment for learning. 

Kelly made a big show of encouraging his talent in art, but I don't think she actually did much. It was just too difficult, I am sure, to drive from their rural location to art lessons, if they could even afford them.  I have a very artistic child and we are continually driving her to a local public arts center so she can take classes in sculpture, painting, metalsmithing. . . whatever floats her boat. Kelly mentioned that her son had an art teacher briefly, but then she moved away, so after that he watched youtube videos. This "leave them be and they'll figure it out" strategy leaves them at an incredible disadvantage.

Ashton did not develop a love of learning, as per Kelly's plan.  He did not figure out a way to go to college. He seems stuck in a deadend job. He does have some natural "blessings"--he is artistic, he is very goodlooking, he is athletic, he seems like a very nice person--but I worry he will struggle financially all his life because his mom just had too many kids and believed in "relaxed homeschooling." I think her other kids are headed down that same path.

 

[mango_fandango]

OT slightly but I’m confused. When I first saw this thread, Hisey’s post was first. Now, it’s Black Aliss’s. Black Aliss quotes a bit from Hisey’s. Even though, according to what I can see, Black Aliss supposedly wrote around 18 hours ago and Hisey about 14 hours ago. How could Black Aliss have quoted something that wasn’t yet written? And bearing in mind that Hisey wrote the first post when I saw it originally (which was about fourteen hours ago roughly). Is this is a technical issue???

From what I’ve read about Kelly Crawford she sounds like an asshole. I’m not surprised her kids are only cleaners and fast food workers given their education. I’m not slagging cleaners and fast food workers off as a whole, just laughing at the idea that Kelly said her kids would be the employers not employees. Yeah, in your fantasy dreamworld maybe.

[Anonymousguest]

I see the same thing, hisey's post quoted by black alias as the first post on the thread. What happened to hisey's thread starting post?

[PurpleCats]

To me, his post drips with jealousy.  

[Hane]

I’m reminded of Michael Pearl, whose home-educated and corporally disciplined (aka beaten mercilessly) children were going to grow up to be all our bosses. Wherebouts are they, again?

[RosyDaisy]

Well, well, well. Bitch, this is what you and your fucked up cult do to children.

[Hisey]

4 hours ago, PurpleCats said:

To me, his post drips with jealousy.  

Yes, I am sure he is jealous. He's also somewhat naive, to expect fairness in the world. That's what a lot of posters are addressing when they respond to him. They're like, "Yeah, that's the way life is, kid." Overall, though, he seems like a really nice kid! Far nicer than that insufferable idiot, Bria.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think these homeschooling parents raise their kids in a way that they make the kids think they are more special and better than everyone else. Therefore of course they expect to have this dream life where they start their own business at 18 and are magically successful. They do everything god wants. So why wouldn't they succeed? Oh yeah. Because your parents set you up to fail. That's why. 

Maybe when your mom was 18 a white male without a college education could do ok just starting out. But not anymore.

[RosyDaisy]

I'm just going to revel in the fact that my late cousin's children are thriving. One just got a job promotion, Two just got engaged, and Three got a scholarship to Auburn. All raised non-fundie and public school educated. I wish my cousin was here to rub that into Kelly's nose.

I honestly hope Ashton can overcome his fundie upbringing and has a good life.

[refugee]

3 hours ago, Hane said:

I’m reminded of Michael Pearl, whose home-educated and corporally disciplined (aka beaten mercilessly) children were going to grow up to be all our bosses. Wherebouts are they, again?

It was sales hype. Just a part of the package he put together to draw in gullible buyers to buy his books and subscribe to his magazine (nice, steady, recurring income) and pay him to speak and flatter him by listening to and following his advice.

[Hisey]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think these homeschooling parents raise their kids in a way that they make the kids think they are more special and better than everyone else. Therefore of course they expect to have this dream life where they start their own business at 18 and are magically successful. They do everything god wants. So why wouldn't they succeed? Oh yeah. Because your parents set you up to fail. That's why. 

Maybe when your mom was 18 a white male without a college education could do ok just starting out. But not anymore.

These fundie moms are very isolated. If their kid does something slightly better than average, they think it is a miracle. Kelly, for example, knew that Ashton drew far better than she could, than her husband and kids could, so she felt he was a genius. He's a talented kid, but there are lots of talented kids out there, and it takes more than just talent to succeed. She doesn't seem to know that. 

So she set him up for failure. She didn't bother getting him training and good instruction. No, her pride had this untaught boy set up a website to sell his drawings, at a time when he should still have been learning and growing. I don't think his business has been a big success. His website has been taken down.

 

[EowynW]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think these homeschooling parents raise their kids in a way that they make the kids think they are more special and better than everyone else. Therefore of course they expect to have this dream life where they start their own business at 18 and are magically successful. They do everything god wants. So why wouldn't they succeed? Oh yeah. Because your parents set you up to fail. That's why. 

Maybe when your mom was 18 a white male without a college education could do ok just starting out. But not anymore.

The fundie version of the prosperity gospel. They live in the clouds. 

But when you hit the ground from that, it hurts. A lot. You realize what struggles are in front of you. You realize how your life could've been different. You realize what was done to you and what you followed along with, all because you were honestly trying so hard to "be good" & honestly thought you were following God's Best Way because it's all you ever were taught. It shakes you to the core. 

I feel very sad for him, and many of the offspring of these fundies, especially once they start to see the light. I was one of them  . And so was my husband. 

 

[Hisey]

1 minute ago, EowynW said:

The fundie version of the prosperity gospel. They live in the clouds. 

But when you hit the ground from that, it hurts. A lot. You realize what struggles are in front of you. You realize how your life could've been different. You realize what was done to you and what you followed along with, all because you were honestly trying so hard to "be good" & honestly thought you were following God's Best Way because it's all you ever were taught. It shakes you to the core. 

 

I was not raised in a religious family, but I am very familiar with earnestly trying to be "good" and having it all come to nothing.

[Bethella]

@Anonymousguest @mango_fandango- Destiny posted that things went fucky last night (I think due to the JRod thread) and posts might be out of order 

http://www.freejinger.org/profile/11277-destiny/?status=4800&type=status 

[mango_fandango]

Ah OK. Thanks for the clarification.

[lilith]

6 hours ago, Hisey said:

These fundie moms are very isolated. If their kid does something slightly better than average, they think it is a miracle. Kelly, for example, knew that Ashton drew far better than she could, than her husband and kids could, so she felt he was a genius. He's a talented kid, but there are lots of talented kids out there, and it takes more than just talent to succeed. She doesn't seem to know that. 

So she set him up for failure. She didn't bother getting him training and good instruction. No, her pride had this untaught boy set up a website to sell his drawings, at a time when he should still have been learning and growing. I don't think his business has been a big success. His website has been taken down.

 

My second child is very artistically talented, as identified by teachers from early primary school. Proud mum moment - he was just awarded the art medal upon graduating primary school. Nobody else in the immediate family has any talent for visual arts.

He watches YouTube channels and tutorials (many of which I’m sure Kelly wouldn’t allow for a young boy, especially those focusing on anatomy) and reads books about art and technique (again, I don’t think Kelly would approve of a lot of them). He has also attended various art classes over the years.

A huge part of his art education has been learning with other kids. Comparing his style and techniques, seeing different people excel on different areas, finding out what he enjoys and is good at, being stretched in different directions. That simply couldn’t have been accomplished at home.

Ive also been very cautious about encouraging him to rely on art alone as a career - I’ve known too many struggling artists, and starving picturesquely in a garret isn’t viable in the 21st century. He currently, at 12 1/2, is focussing on both art and programming with the thought of pursuing graphic design/the design side of programming.

I think he’s incredibly talented and I’d love to see him succeed as an artist. But the odds of that happening are very small, even with all the support he’s getting (that Kelly’s son didn’t), and it would be incredibly cruel of me to encourage him to base his life on that hope.

And I absolutely wouldn’t encourage him to try to sell his juvenalia - he’s already embarrassed by some of the pieces we all thought were masterpieces only a year ago.

[lilah]

Writing an Instagram caption is writing "work" for one of Kelly's kids. http://www.generationcedar.com/main/2017/11/let-daughter-take-video-math.html

 

 

[Hisey]

On 1/7/2018 at 1:42 AM, lilith said:

My second child is very artistically talented, as identified by teachers from early primary school. Proud mum moment - he was just awarded the art medal upon graduating primary school. Nobody else in the immediate family has any talent for visual arts.

He watches YouTube channels and tutorials (many of which I’m sure Kelly wouldn’t allow for a young boy, especially those focusing on anatomy) and reads books about art and technique (again, I don’t think Kelly would approve of a lot of them). He has also attended various art classes over the years.

A huge part of his art education has been learning with other kids. Comparing his style and techniques, seeing different people excel on different areas, finding out what he enjoys and is good at, being stretched in different directions. That simply couldn’t have been accomplished at home.

Ive also been very cautious about encouraging him to rely on art alone as a career - I’ve known too many struggling artists, and starving picturesquely in a garret isn’t viable in the 21st century. He currently, at 12 1/2, is focussing on both art and programming with the thought of pursuing graphic design/the design side of programming.

I think he’s incredibly talented and I’d love to see him succeed as an artist. But the odds of that happening are very small, even with all the support he’s getting (that Kelly’s son didn’t), and it would be incredibly cruel of me to encourage him to base his life on that hope.

And I absolutely wouldn’t encourage him to try to sell his juvenalia - he’s already embarrassed by some of the pieces we all thought were masterpieces only a year ago.

Your son sounds very talented, congrats on his award! 

My daughter has had to put me in my place when I have become overly impressed with her artwork. She has earned recognition, etc, but remains pretty grounded about her work. When I suggest art college in the future, she says disapprovingly, "I'm going to need to pay a mortgage, mom." When I suggest an etsy store, she says, "I'm not ready."

And she's right. I can see that as we leave the world of best-in-her-school and enter the world of lots-of-talented-artists-out-there. Not that she couldn't succeed, but that it takes hard work and luck as well as talent, and that this involves sacrifices she might or might not want to  make.

So I can understand Kelly's pride, but I also think she did very little to support Ashton and expected the world in return. She also never seemed to get the memo that there are lots of talented artists out there besides her son.

[Sobeknofret]

What's super ironic here is the post she made on December 31st, bemoaning the culture that raises children in "a culture of mediocrity." While I have no issues at all with working at Chik fil A, or working as a cleaner, it doesn't sound like the ringing endorsement for homeschooling as raising that culture in any significant way she was hoping for.

http://www.generationcedar.com/main/2018/01/5-ways-parents-can-learn-daniel-raise-men-women-excellence.html

[Black Aliss]

On 1/6/2018 at 5:55 AM, Howl said:

Chik Fil A is the go to fast food employment for Christian kids.  This is so sad.  

 I assume they pay well enough that the Christian kids can buy a house for cash and support eleventy children on their take-home pay.

[DomWackTroll]

Reading FJ again, Kelly? Naughty, naughty! (She posted this on her Facebook page)

 

[FundieFarmer]

These fundie moms are very isolated. If their kid does something slightly better than average, they think it is a miracle.

This is especially dangerous when they’re being compared to the also-homeschooled kid next door, whose education is probably equally as if not shittier. Saying, “oh, you’re better than John and Jane Doe” is very problematic when they receive 2 hours of training to your 4.

On another note...how does excellent homeschooling really work? From what I can understand, there seem to be three models:
•Private school homeschooling- kid is taken out of school to focus on some talent, so they spend most of the day on that talent and some on school and wind up getting into school for that talent but have REALLY high grades. Very popular in my area but only one kid actually got a job in the talent area after college so it kind of seems like a waste.
•Mostly quality homeschooling- reasonable number of kids, like 3-5 all in the same age range. Mom manages classroom and kids move up in same general educational bracket together. There may be some gaps in knowledge for each kid hat another covered but otherwise the kids are pretty well-rounded. Usually have extra-curriculars with a homeschool co-op. Usually in line with classical education (think Botkins or ABeka).
•Total chaos- eleventy kids of all ages. Whether they’re actually schooled depends and they might be totally left to themselves. Either have no extra-curriculars or depend entirely on the co-op for all education. Mismatched, out of date curriculum and siblings teaching because Mom is pregnant or cooking. Mom is definitely leading either one age group or the other though because seniors and kindergarteners are not learning the same thing.

Thoughts?