Can Evangelicalism Survive Trump and Moore?

[47of74]

This article in the New Yorker poses that question

Quote

For centuries, renewal movements have emerged within Christianity and taken on different forms and names. Often, they have invoked the word “evangelical.” Followers of Martin Luther, who emphasized the doctrine of salvation by faith alone, described themselves in this way. The Cambridge clergyman Charles Simeon, who led the Low Church renewal movement within the Church of England, adopted the label. The trans-Atlantic eighteenth-century awakenings and revivals led by the Wesleys were also often called “evangelical.” In the nineteen-forties and fifties, Billy Graham and others promoted the word to describe themselves and the religious space they were seeking to create between the cultural withdrawal espoused by the fundamentalist movement, on the one hand, and mainline Protestantism’s departures from historic Christian doctrine, on the other. In each of these phases, the term has had a somewhat different meaning, and yet it keeps surfacing because it has described a set of basic historic beliefs and impulses.

When I became a Christian in college, in the early nineteen-seventies, the word “evangelical” still meant an alternative to the fortress mentality of fundamentalism. Shortly thereafter, I went to Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, to prepare for the Presbyterian ministry. It was one of the many institutions that Graham, Harold Ockenga, and J. Howard Pew, and other neo-evangelicals, as they were sometimes called, established. In those years, there was such great energy in the movement that, by the mid-nineteen-nineties, it had eclipsed mainline Protestantism as the dominant branch of the Christian church in the U.S. When I moved to Manhattan to start a new church, in 1989, most people I met found the church and its ministry to be a curiosity in secular New York but not a threat. And, if they heard the word “evangelical” around the congregation, a name we seldom used, they usually asked what it meant.

Today, while the name is no longer unfamiliar in my city, its meaning has changed drastically. The conservative leaders who have come to be most identified with the movement have largely driven this redefinition. But political pollsters have also helped, as they have sought to highlight a crucial voting bloc. When they survey people, there is no discussion of any theological beliefs, or other criteria. The great majority of them simply ask people, “Would you describe yourself as a born-again or evangelical Christian?” And those who answer ‘yes’ are counted. More than eighty per cent of such people voted for Donald Trump, and, last week, a similar percentage cast their ballots for Roy Moore, in the Alabama Senate race. So, in common parlance, evangelicals have become people with two qualities: they are both self-professed Christians and doggedly conservative politically.

The fury and incredulity of many in the larger population at this constituency has mounted. People who once called themselves the “Moral Majority” are now seemingly willing to vote for anyone, however immoral, who supports their political positions. The disgust has come to include people within the movement itself. Earlier this month, Peter Wehner, an Op-Ed writer for the Times who served in the last three Republican Administrations, wrote a widely circulated piece entitled “Why I Can No Longer Call Myself an Evangelical Republican.” Many younger believers and Christians of color, who had previously identified with evangelicalism, have also declared their abandonment of the label. “Evangelical” used to denote people who claimed the high moral ground; now, in popular usage, the word is nearly synonymous with “hypocrite.” When I used the word to describe myself in the nineteen-seventies, it meant I was not a fundamentalist. If I use the name today, however, it means to hearers that I am.

And to be honest, I hope it doesn't.  It would make me so happy to see the downfall of the Orange Fart Cloud and Moore, particularly if said downfall takes all these reich wing churches with them.

[EmiGirl]

The thing is that I see Trump and Moore making the evangelical right more empowered.

[Dandruff]

I see evangelism as having the figurative staying power of cockroaches - they stay focused on their end goal, have very thick skins, and let little to nothing get in the way of their breeding.

[feministxtian]

I think as the younger folks take a good, hard look at what Evangelical Christianity has become, I think they will turn their backs on it. Many of the younger people see the inherent hypocrisy in what they are saying vs. what they are doing. It is my understanding that denominations like the SBC are struggling to keep the younger kids. With any kind of luck it'll all die out in a few years. 

[47of74]

1 hour ago, feministxtian said:

I think as the younger folks take a good, hard look at what Evangelical Christianity has become, I think they will turn their backs on it. Many of the younger people see the inherent hypocrisy in what they are saying vs. what they are doing. It is my understanding that denominations like the SBC are struggling to keep the younger kids. With any kind of luck it'll all die out in a few years. 

It's not just the SBC.  Catholicism is losing members big time as well.  If you took all the people who are no longer Catholic and put them in one denomination it'd be one of the largest Christian denominations in the US.  They've been able to hide it better due to many immigrants being Catholic. 

[feministxtian]

51 minutes ago, 47of74 said:

It's not just the SBC.  Catholicism is losing members big time as well.  If you took all the people who are no longer Catholic and put them in one denomination it'd be one of the largest Christian denominations in the US.  They've been able to hide it better due to many immigrants being Catholic. 

SBC was the first one that popped into my head. I'm an X-Catholic and so is my husband. I think the hard-core bigotry and worship of money is what is turning the younger people off. Give it time...these clowns are gasping their last breath and attempting to hang on to power as long as they can. 

[47of74]

Just now, feministxtian said:

SBC was the first one that popped into my head. I'm an X-Catholic and so is my husband. I think the hard-core bigotry and worship of money is what is turning the younger people off. Give it time...these clowns are gasping their last breath and attempting to hang on to power as long as they can. 

Another thing too is how many of these reich wingers ride around on their high horses about how "pro life" they all are, but that just lats until the baby pops out.  Then they don't give a god damn about the baby or the mother.  That level of sanctimony probably drove more than a few away.

[Hane]

1 hour ago, 47of74 said:

It's not just the SBC.  Catholicism is losing members big time as well.  If you took all the people who are no longer Catholic and put them in one denomination it'd be one of the largest Christian denominations in the US.  They've been able to hide it better due to many immigrants being Catholic. 

Having taught ESL for many years and living in an area where there are many immigrants, I’ve noticed that many people one might “expect “ to be Catholic (from the Caribbean and Latin America) are increasingly evangelical Protestants. Part of this trend seems to come from rejection of a powerful hierarchical organization, and part from more mundane issues like greater acceptance of divorce and remarriage.

[feministxtian]

1 minute ago, 47of74 said:

Another thing too is how many of these reich wingers ride around on their high horses about how "pro life" they all are, but that just lats until the baby pops out.  Then they don't give a god damn about the baby or the mother.  That level of sanctimony probably drove more than a few away.

That's one of my favorite drums to bang...they don't see the inconsistency in their beliefs...then all the shit about "the government" taking their money...umm...idiot...according to the Constitution our government is supposed to be "by the people, of the people, for the people" (or something like that...may not be a direct quote)...so...idiot...who says "they" get to decide where to spend MY money. Honestly, if my taxes went up 5% to pay for universal health care, help fund infrastructure improvements and education, damn...I wouldn't bitch one little bit. The current ACA sign up period has come and gone and I didn't sign up for insurance...it would have come to 20 percent of our combined income for premiums and deductibles...screw that shit. A 5% tax hike would still be way cheaper.

[danvillebelle]

Oh you wayward baptists....come to the Orthodox side, we have vodka!  

[smittykins]

10 hours ago, 47of74 said:

Another thing too is how many of these reich wingers ride around on their high horses about how "pro life" they all are, but that just lats until the baby pops out.  Then they don't give a god damn about the baby or the mother.  That level of sanctimony probably drove more than a few away.

I know it drove me away—that, and “keep your legs closed if you don’t want a kid(but we won’t tell the guys to keep it in their pants).”  And I actually chose to wait for marriage.

If I’d had kids, I would have definitely encouraged them to wait, at least until they could legally consent(17 in NY), and I would have said that I believe sex is best expressed within a committed relationship.  And of course, how to protect themselves.

[RosyDaisy]

Evangelicalism will certainly live on in Alabama. The key to bringing them down lies with minorities and younger voters.

[EowynW]

12 hours ago, danvillebelle said:

Oh you wayward baptists....come to the Orthodox side, we have vodka!  

Vodka was the first alcohol I ever tasted after I left baptistville. 

[danvillebelle]

8 hours ago, EowynW said:

Vodka was the first alcohol I ever tasted after I left baptistville. 

Wise choice.

Seriously, you haven't properly celebrated the resurrection until you've done it at 2am with baskets full of meat and cheese and chocolates.  And wine and vodka.  Chocolate vodka, even. 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

7 minutes ago, danvillebelle said:

Chocolate vodka, even. 

An acquaintance gave us some liquor she didn't want anymore, including a partial bottle of double chocolate flavored vodka. I've been treating myself to an occasional cup of hot cocoa with a slug of the vodka in it. Mmm! 

[EowynW]

1 hour ago, danvillebelle said:

Wise choice.

Seriously, you haven't properly celebrated the resurrection until you've done it at 2am with baskets full of meat and cheese and chocolates.  And wine and vodka.  Chocolate vodka, even. 

The stuff I had was hella strong. It burned all the way down. But it was a cheap brand I was using to make herbal tinctures with. 

[mirele]

Blergh, that article is by Tim Keller, a pastor of an Evangelical megachurch in NYC. He comes across as being moderate, but he's nothing but. He believes in complementarianism, for one thing:

https://cbmw.org/topics/leadership-2/giving-thanks-to-god-for-complementarians-tim-kathy-keller/

(that's from the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood and the headline reads:  "Giving Thanks to God for Complementarians Tim & Kathy Keller")

Keller also posted this wonder to his Twitter earlier this week:

He took a LOT of heat for his statement, particularly from people of color and liberal types.

Yeah, that's me. *shrug* However, the more interesting thing I did since this tweet is I've looked at a number of statements of faith from various flavors of Evangelicals. I have yet to find a church that says it follows the teachings of Jesus. Here, for example, is the arglebargle from Tim Keller's Redeemer Church:

Quote

1. Gospel Centrality

In general, the gospel is the message of the Bible that God is redeeming his fallen creation through the coming of his kingdom in the person and work of Jesus Christ. In particular, the gospel is the message that we are saved from our sins by sheer, free grace through faith in the finished work of Christ, not through our efforts and works. Redeemer believes that this gospel message of hope for the world and grace for the sinner is not merely a body of truth, but the very power of God which grows, changes, and shapes everything with which it has contact—hearts and identities,  relationships, practices in every area of public and private life, and whole societies. So the gospel is “central,” first, because it is not merely one department of belief, but it is a power that affects every area of life when its implications are felt and thought out. But secondly, the gospel is “central” because it is neither legalism on the one hand nor relativism on the other.

https://www.redeemer.com/learn/vision_and_values/

Here's part of one for a group called "Fellowship of Christian Assemblies," which is the overarching org for a church near me:

Quote

In the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ (John 1:1, 14; 20:28-29; Philippians 2:6–11; Isaiah 9:6; Colossians 2:9).

In his virgin birth (Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:34–35; Isaiah 7:14).

In his sinless life (2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15, 7:26–27; 1 John 3:5; 1 Peter 2:22).

In his miracles (Matthew 4:23; Luke 6:17–19; John 3:2).

In his vicarious and atoning death through His shed blood (Colossians 1:14, 20; Romans 5:8–9; Ephesians 1:7).

In his bodily resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:3–4; Luke 24:4–7; 36–48; Revelation 1:17–18).

In his ascension to the right hand of the Father (Acts 2:23; 5:30–31; 1 Peter 3:22).

In his personal return in power and in glory (Acts 1:11; Philippians 2:9–11; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 4:13–18; John 14:1-3).

http://www.fcaministers.com/statement-of-faith/

Basically, it's "we believe in the virgin birth, his miracles, his sinless life, his atoning death, his resurrection, his second coming"--but what is missing? What he taught.

Sorry to rant, but this is really eating on me. Jesus told people in the Gospels to follow him. Some people seem to think that having the right ideas in their head about Jesus is "following him." And my mother and my ex-boyfriend wonder why I've bagged church.

[EowynW]

@mirele I didn't you were here. I enjoy reading your comments on TWW

[Hane]

Out of curiosity, I visited the websites of a couple of evangelical religious organizations in my area. One is a young earth creationist Baptist church. The other is a New Life outfit (“A church for people who don’t like church!”), a thinly disguised Jerry Falwell plant that’s eaten up a few traditional Baptist churches around here. Both have small private schools—the New Life one uses A Beka.

Both have statements of faith that are all about the Virgin birth, Christ’s coming to free us from our sins, the resurrection, yada yada yada—and not one single syllable about his teachings and how to follow them.

[Black Aliss]

On 12/21/2017 at 3:08 PM, EmiGirl said:

The thing is that I see Trump and Moore making the evangelical right more empowered.

I think it's worse than that. Empowered by the mainstream GOP, they created a space within the power structure for people like Trump and Moore. I find it infuriating that people like one who wrote in the NY Times recently are saying they can no longer call themselves evangelicals. Not that they've given up their basic fundamentalism and the need to force the rest of the world to agree with them, no. They just think Trump and Moore have made evangelicals look bad. Sorry, you built it, you own it. The time to repudiate Trump and his fellow Radical Christianists passed years ago. You did nothing.

[Briefly]

On 12/21/2017 at 10:20 PM, danvillebelle said:

Oh you wayward baptists....come to the Orthodox side, we have vodka!  

I am currently a member of the Southern Baptist Church, and have been in the past.  However, that does not mean that I agree with the majority of the things that SBC members are supposed to.  I don't mind the occasional drink or two, and I really don't care if somebody else has a drink.  My hubby's standard answer is that if it was a sin to drink, then why did Jesus turn the water into wine?  Anyway, the point of this is to say that I know quite a few people that I think have problems with alcohol and quite a few of them are SBC members.

On 12/22/2017 at 7:52 PM, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

An acquaintance gave us some liquor she didn't want anymore, including a partial bottle of double chocolate flavored vodka. I've been treating myself to an occasional cup of hot cocoa with a slug of the vodka in it. Mmm! 

I put a little Southern Comfort in mine.

[formergothardite]

12 minutes ago, Briefly said:

I am currently a member of the Southern Baptist Church, and have been in the past.

It seems like the no drinking thing is not as strict as it used to be. 

If you don't mind answering, as an active SB, do you find your fellow church members support people like Trump/Moore and if they do, how do they justify it? 

[Briefly]

On 12/26/2017 at 4:57 PM, formergothardite said:

It seems like the no drinking thing is not as strict as it used to be. 

If you don't mind answering, as an active SB, do you find your fellow church members support people like Trump/Moore and if they do, how do they justify it? 

I honestly don't know, we have not attended very much in the last several months.  The church we belonged to before, which was also SBC and on the verge of fundy, is probably 100% pro-Trump.  I think the church we currently belong to is probably not very pro-Trump, it's a lot more relaxed and not as stuffy for lack of a better word.  It's the only SBC I know of that celebrates Advent, Lent and women have been the speakers a few times.

[EmiGirl]

4 hours ago, Briefly said:

I honestly don't know, we have not attended very much in the last several months.  The church we belonged to before, which was also SBC and on the verge of fundy, is probably 100% pro-Trump.  I think the church we currently belong to is probably not very pro-Trump, it's a lot more relaxed and not as stuffy for lack of a better word.  It's the only SBC I know of that celebrates Advent, Lent and women have been the speakers a few times.

Your current church sounds like mine back home.  It's SBC, but I'd say mixed views on Trump, leaning towards pro Trump.  I know the pastor can't stand him, but he can't say so from the pulpit. We celebrate Advent, but lent only to the extent of doing the community service. We don't give stuff up and the like. We have had women speak, but they're not allowed to "preach," semantics...

[JesusCampSongs]

Even before Trump, there was a mass exodus of young adults out of evangelical churches. This pew article, published in 2015, shows a handy denominational breakdown by generation. It's worth keeping in mind that the youngest millennials (born 1997-1999) weren't included in the study because they are only just now hitting adulthood. At my last job, I worked with high school-aged kids in the Bible Belt. They were all very secular, and even the ones who were religious-ish weren't inclined to be jerks about it. I can only think of two who I worked with over a four-year period that were obnoxious about their beliefs (and they were both closet cases, so). I'm sure that studies coming out over the next four to five years will show an even greater shift towards "nones."

I was raised Southern Baptist in the nineties, and most of the people I'm still in touch with from my childhood and teen years have either switched to more liberal denominations (UCC, Episcopal, a few Unitarians) or left religion altogether. I'm sure there's some selection bias at play due to my own unwillingness to associate with bigots, but I've nonetheless been surprised by who all wound up bailing. If asked, most of us would give the same reason for leaving: we grew tired of the hypocrisy and the endless moral grandstanding that never made the world a better place. I guess we can all thank Ken Starr, Newt Gingrich, Dick Cheney, and George W Bush for this. 

I keep hoping that this administration will be the death knell of conservative Christianity's interference in politics. If any one good thing could come out of it, it's this. 

ETA: My father, who still is a Southern Baptist, reports that Trump is a very divisive figure in evangelical circles. It's caused a lot of conflict in his personal and religious life. He has disaffiliated from the Republican Party (and he'd been registered with them since 18), and if he hadn't already left over Trump, he would have left over Moore. He is also in the process of leaving a church he was a member of for over twenty years because he can't deal with the legalism, bigotry, and stagnation anymore. He used the term "white privilege" in a correct and non-sarcastic way a few months ago, and I nearly fell out. My Baby Boomer dad is becoming woke. I never would have thought it possible.