Tori Bates - Part 4: Pretty Dresses Hiding Ugly Ideologies

[melon]

With my oldest son,who ended up on the bottle,my period returned when he was about 6-7 weeks old.I was disappointed.

With my two other sons,that I breastfed,my period didn't return until 15 months with my 2nd,and by the way,I had one period,and got pregnant with my third.With my 3rd,he was 14 months old when my period returned.

But when I had my 3rd son,my 2nd son had just turned 2,about three weeks before.

[TatiFish9]

On 5/13/2018 at 10:58 AM, nausicaa said:

Of course I would rather see them go off to a real academic program. But that's not going to happen. So the options fr the daughters are 1. Stay around the house as Kelly's personal nanny, chef, and maid or 2. Go to Crown and meet some new people (some of whom may be questioning their Fundie beliefs) and perhaps get a degree in something like cosmetology that may help them support themselves financially if they choose to break away.  

I don't like Crown. I think it's a joke of a school. But under the choices they are given, I prefer it to option #1. 

What is the point of option 1 if it does nothing but bring about the same results as staying home to be a nanny? Furthermore, we say we hate what they stand for, but we rejoice in them attending a college that further educates and limits their thinking outside of the cult of dominionism, just because it gave them something to do.  Tori is now educated not to get an actual job (well maybe), but to specifically teach another generation of children to be submissive and continue in the order.  And who are they meeting in these courses, but more people like themselves? Same stuff they do at a Big Sandy convention. I am speaking specifically to Tori's B.S. degree not Josie's. But with Josie she has the added "Bible" track to remind her that she is only as good as what she can do for her future husband and family. And how much do we want to bet that soon as Josie has kids she will be be right at home doing hair for her family and fundie friends only. 

It's their right. I appreciate that we all have rights to choose our paths in life, but I can't support it. 

With that said, I do hope Josie fights to keep an outside job like Whitney. And look, Whitney didn't event need a Crown degree to do it.

[picklepizzas]

i just caught up on this whole thread today (sunday funday  ) and it was sad to see this thread start out with a discussion of how tori planned to be "involved" and possibly even..WORK for the christian school in nashville, and end with this pregnancy announcement that almost certainly means she won't be working at any school for the next 20 odd years.  If it was any other woman I would think, 'oh, that's too bad she's going to have to take maternity leave just as she starts out at a new job, but maybe she can start work again during the spring semester.' but for tori i would imagine there's no chance that she'll be leaving her baby to return to the workforce, ever. maybe there's some way for her to still student-teach with a baby in tow, but i doubt it. 

[ScorpiousMalfoy]

https://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/tori-bates-bobby-smith-newlyweds-161401

An interesting clip where BoRi are admitting to feeling weird and "wrong" after going from 0 (courtship) to 100 (marriage) in terms of physical contact. At least they aren't sugarcoating it and they admit it is an adjustment, unlike most other fundies...

[TeaELSee]

12 hours ago, ScorpiousMalfoy said:

https://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/tori-bates-bobby-smith-newlyweds-161401

An interesting clip where BoRi are admitting to feeling weird and "wrong" after going from 0 (courtship) to 100 (marriage) in terms of physical contact. At least they aren't sugarcoating it and they admit it is an adjustment, unlike most other fundies...

What a refreshingly honest clip. I’m impressed that they both recognized how strange it was. How sad to feel like it’s wrong to kiss someone you are married to.

[ophelia]

Finally! So many newlywed fundie couples go through this and feel awkward as hell. Someone in the Chelsy and John Maxwell phrased it quite nicely when they got married: you go from barely touching to sex and pooping while your spouse is in the room next to you in a split second.

[JillyO]

If they felt weird and wrong kissing, I really hope they took their time to get more comfortable with each other, and didn't feel like they HAD to have sex on their wedding night. That sounds incredibly stressfull.

I wish experiences like this would make them realize how stupid their courtship rules are, but I doubt it.

[BeccaGrim]

I really thought there were several examples in this episode of them being really off with one another. Now it could have just been that the cameras were there but she actually pulled back from kissing him at one point. She must have said 10X that it was off.  And I remember Michael and Brandon's honeymoon and she rushed him back to the hotel room presumably to go be intimate together. I did not get that vibe from Tori. I think this was hard on them.  Really hard.  And at one point Josie thanked Kelton for not saying "Enough, I don't need this" for having to jump through so many hoops to date a Bates girl.  I think Tori and Bobby struggled. 

[freethemall]

On 6/3/2018 at 2:36 PM, picklepizzas said:

i just caught up on this whole thread today (sunday funday  ) and it was sad to see this thread start out with a discussion of how tori planned to be "involved" and possibly even..WORK for the christian school in nashville, and end with this pregnancy announcement that almost certainly means she won't be working at any school for the next 20 odd years.  If it was any other woman I would think, 'oh, that's too bad she's going to have to take maternity leave just as she starts out at a new job, but maybe she can start work again during the spring semester.' but for tori i would imagine there's no chance that she'll be leaving her baby to return to the workforce, ever. maybe there's some way for her to still student-teach with a baby in tow, but i doubt it. 

Well, I guess it's sad for those who actually thought there was even a tiny chance in hell that she wouldn't go down the same path as her mother and sisters with a quick marriage and quick pregnancy which will be followed by another quick pregnancy and another and another and maybe she'll find a moment here or there to "help out" at the school but the idea that she was ever going to be a full-time teacher was never plausible. This keeps happening at FJ where with each couple we see some hope with the women (Erin was teaching music, Alyssa was in a florist shop, Josie as a hairdresser, even Jill Duggar Dillard with midwifery - all until they have their hands full with multiple kids of their own) and somehow people are shocked when they just go down the path that has been laid out for them.

[AnnEggBlandHer?]

1 hour ago, freethemall said:

Well, I guess it's sad for those who actually thought there was even a tiny chance in hell that she wouldn't go down the same path as her mother and sisters with a quick marriage and quick pregnancy which will be followed by another quick pregnancy and another and another and maybe she'll find a moment here or there to "help out" at the school but the idea that she was ever going to be a full-time teacher was never plausible. This keeps happening at FJ where with each couple we see some hope with the women (Erin was teaching music, Alyssa was in a florist shop, Josie as a hairdresser, even Jill Duggar Dillard with midwifery - all until they have their hands full with multiple kids of their own) and somehow people are shocked when they just go down the path that has been laid out for them.

Not to speak for anyone else, but I don’t think people are genuinely shocked when these girls follow the typical path of young marriage and eleventy!!?!! babies starting 9 months after the honeymoon. It’s just human nature to be hopeful, and somehow we are all recognizing the potential in these women that their families either do not see or are hellbent on ridding them of.

People do leave the cult, and someday we’ll be right in our speculation that this one or that one had a little extra spark, a little extra courage, and we’ll be genuinely happy to see them escape. It doesn’t bother me to see hopeful posts that maybe this is it! :::insert fundie maiden here::: is leaving because :::insert slightly mainstream action or social media post::: 

[3SecondSideHugger]

I don’t know about you guys, but I was an older teen with my first kiss and other intimate experiences. The first few times I kissed a guy felt kinda gross.. like my body wanted it but then lips/tongue would touch and I was really grossed out LOL. My husband jokes that I still don’t like “real” kisses. I can’t imagine being unable to touch someone for years and then getting married. I reallyyy don’t think I’d be comfortable kissing for a while, similar to my timeline in real life. Combine that with a camera and I’d be so awkward!! I appreciate the honest moment being shown and wish they would wake up and realize how nuts the rules are!!

[neurogirl]

I wasn't raised fundie, but still in a Christian home with strict parents and modesty rules. I had my first kiss at 18 with my summer boyfriend of 3 weeks and the next morning felt so dirty I loofa-ed up in a hot shower with Christian music playing. And that was for a KISS that I had wanted and initiated. I had time to get over it and also time to ease into intimacy on my own terms (i found 'going round the bases' super fun), but yes I can imagine how hard it is for an actually fundie-raised maiden who is used to being upheld as a paragon of purity and virtue and now is just...married and doing the deed like everyone else in the span of 12 hours. I'm surprised we don't hear more stories and I'm happy that Tori and Bobby are sharing even a bit of honesty.

[mstee]

I have a good friend who was raised in a religious household (not Christian though) where it was expected that sex was to be saved for marriage and she agreed with it. There wasn’t this whole excessive focus on it though and she dated and kissed other guys before she found “the one”. No chaperones. Normal stuff with her now husband except no sex or heavy foreplay. After they get married they went on a longer honeymoon and worked up to sex over a couple of weeks. It wasn’t very dramatic for her and she felt comfortable. I look at her situation and feel like her parents handled it the best way possible for their beliefs. No hyper focus on sex or shame etc. I think the Duggars, Bates etc. would do their kids a favor if they did it this way (and changed many other things too)

[bananabread]

13 hours ago, BeccaGrim said:

I really thought there were several examples in this episode of them being really off with one another. Now it could have just been that the cameras were there but she actually pulled back from kissing him at one point. She must have said 10X that it was off.  And I remember Michael and Brandon's honeymoon and she rushed him back to the hotel room presumably to go be intimate together. I did not get that vibe from Tori. I think this was hard on them.  Really hard.  And at one point Josie thanked Kelton for not saying "Enough, I don't need this" for having to jump through so many hoops to date a Bates girl.  I think Tori and Bobby struggled. 

I think about this a lot. Sure, there are probably lots of couples who can go from zero to "the big shebang" without too many issues. But some people are sexually incompatible, some people don't enjoy sex (or certain types of sex), some people (especially women) battle sexual dysfunction for years before they get comfortable with everything...and I'm sure a lifetime of "your purity is a precious gift that defines your worth as a human being" doesn't help.

I'm sure lots of fundie couples are genuinely happy and satisfied in their relationships and sex lives, but undoubtedly some aren't. And I always find myself wondering who those poor unlucky ones are.

[Ivycoveredtower]

hoping for a boy with them. one because I always hope boy for these families but also there are so many granddaughters that it's time for another boy. 

[Snarkle]

I watched the latest episode of BUB with Tori & Bobby's honeymoon and they definitely were pretty candid about how weird it was that they were finally alone without a chaperone, and they were both really nervous about their first kiss at the altar.  While many of the couples may look forward to it, many probably also feel so self conscious that I wonder if it makes the ceremony that much more stressful.  Traditionally the honeymoon period was intended for couples to get to know each other intimately (physically as well as emotionally) and in their world, it's the first time ever that the couples are actually alone.  An analogy would be the training wheels coming off of the bike - they're excited to ride without support for the first time (yes, I realize that sounds a little naughty), but they're also scared without that safety net.  At least the Bates kids have "dated" their spouses for a while - I always think of match-ups like Kathryn Neely & Daniel Staddon - they knew each other for years as family friends, but purposely kept themselves at arms length from each other in case the courtship soured.  Then suddenly they're married and expecting a baby not long after.  At least the Bates kids have had some time to go on dates (albeit in groups) with their intendeds, and the younger Bates kids are front hugging and posing with their arms around each other, showing there is more than just a spiritual and mental attraction.  I think Erin was one of the first fundies I heard say how hot Chad was and how attracted she was to his looks right away and not just his godly ways, or spirit, or for women, "countenance."  While their shared beliefs and goals are helpful, it's clear the Bates kids also have the hots for their respective partners and they tend to say it.  Tori seems to be the exception, though, but the other kids have said how she's more reticent compared to the others, and the reality of finally being married and all the freedom that it suddenly brings can be overwhelming.  I can't imagine being in a culture where you're a perpetual child until you are officially married and then overnight you are a full-fledged adult, no matter your age.

[AliceInFundyland]

I wonder if she felt equally jarred by becoming pregnant so quickly. Based on what we’ve seen of her personality, I think she might have. I’m sure they’re happy but I bet they might still be ‘adjusting.’ It would be nice to hear more candidness in the future.

[Ivycoveredtower]

2 minutes ago, AliceInFundyland said:

I wonder if she felt equally jarred by becoming pregnant so quickly. Based on what we’ve seen of her personality, I think she might have. I’m sure they’re happy but I bet they might still be ‘adjusting.’ It would be nice to hear more candidness in the future.

it will be interesting to see how that plays out on screen. from what I read Carlin found out and was helping her with a way to tell then Erin found out and basically by the end everyone knew and had to act surprised about it. plus she was in school at the time student teaching and seemed to have bad morning sickness from the few comments made so that must have sucked. 

[HermioneSparrow]

I might be reaching with this one but after watching that clip and all of the other BoRi's interactions those two rushed to marriage. They're both way too immature and Bobby strikes me as a fuckboy, he doesn't seem that into Tori. 

[Ivycoveredtower]

3 hours ago, HermioneSparrow said:

I might be reaching with this one but after watching that clip and all of the other BoRi's interactions those two rushed to marriage. They're both way too immature and Bobby strikes me as a fuckboy, he doesn't seem that into Tori. 

well he is only 23 Tori is 21 I don't think it was a rush thing they were together over two years before they got married, so in Fundy life they were together forever.  but with these couples I think they are both on the shy side they hardly ever post on instagram and I think they are still learning to be together not just alone but actually in the same state since they were super long distance for most of their relationship because of Bobby's schooling. 

I really wish she had waited awhile to get pregnant but of course that wasn't going to happen. 

[HermioneSparrow]

1 minute ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

well he is only 23 Tori is 21 I don't think it was a rush thing they were together over two years before they got married, so in Fundy life they were together forever.  but with these couples I think they are both on the shy side they hardly ever post on instagram and I think they are still learning to be together not just alone but actually in the same state since they were super long distance for most of their relationship because of Bobby's schooling. 

I really wish she had waited awhile to get pregnant but of course that wasn't going to happen. 

It's very obvious they barely know each other, so yes, they did rushed to marriage. I know the timeline and circumstances of their relationship is pretty typical in their world but that doesn't mean it's healthy, they don't seem that comfortable with each other and they were eager to get married but reality sinks in after the wedding and something really doesn't seem right with these two. Now, they're stuck with each other and they just look like hs sweethearts who maybe have sex for the first time and broke up right after. 

Sadly, I bet a lot of these lovey-dovey Duggar/Bateseseses (and fundies) couples suffer from the same fate of being stuck with someone you just liked at some point.

[ophelia]

There are certainly some fundie couples that seemed way more comfortable with each other than these two. Even as newlyweds. Chad and Erin for example, or John and Alyssa.

[HermioneSparrow]

5 hours ago, ophelia said:

There are certainly some fundie couples that seemed way more comfortable with each other than these two. Even as newlyweds. Chad and Erin for example, or John and Alyssa.

Like @BeccaGrim said, Brandon and Michael seemed comfortable with their physical relationship in the honeymoon.

It's just sad that Tori is stuck with the first person she liked. Two years ago I liked a guy A LOT, then we kissed and I was grossed out, we had zero chemistry.... Thankfully I'm not a fundie and I just stopped seeing him. I wasn't even a virgin at that point but I understood the importance of the physical side of a relationship. These people are trapped.

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

On ‎6‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 5:35 PM, TeaELSee said:

What a refreshingly honest clip. I’m impressed that they both recognized how strange it was. How sad to feel like it’s wrong to kiss someone you are married to.

How sad to feel like it's wrong to kiss someone PERIOD!

[Carm_88]

I think that the mindset of "Be modest" "Be Godly "Don't kiss" "Don't Give away Pieces of Your Heart" It's all don't or no! Then suddenly you're expected to be a "YES" person. I don't know how quickly I would be comfortable.