Maxwell 16: At least one Maxwell got fed for Thanksgiving...

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Mary is the youngest.

I would totally fail a pop quiz on Maxwell trivia!  

I have some kidults living at home and I'd like to give Steve some words of wisdom if he's reading.  There is a middle ground between treating your adult kids like actual children and writing them off as "extended family."

Ngl, I'll always see mine as my kids.  I will always worry about them, be there to help if I can in a way I wouldn't be for anyone else on the planet, still enjoy their appreciation when I make their favorite meal or surprise them with random acts of baking.  

And I will not apologize for looking up at my 6'4" baby the other day and smiling as I remembered him in cookie monster slippers and dinosaur pajamas.

But I don't have to infantalize him to keep those memories - they are mine and on a primal level they will always be my little babies.

However....I also really like them as grown up people.  Hearing their takes on the world, seeing them launch their adult lives.  I'm ridiculously proud that they are all decent and compassionate people while I sometimes want to kick myself for encouraging their critical thinking skills when they are so passionate in their wrongness at times

But my point is, Steve...my relationship with them as a mom shifted but didn't end.  I no longer give them a curfew, but I insist on the courtesy of a heads up when someone won't be home for the night - just so I don't worry about an accident or whatever.  The same courtesy I'd give them if I was working crazy late or staying the night at my sister's unexpectedly.

I don't assign them chores, but I expect them to help around the house because they are adults who live there and clean up after themselves because we don't have a staff to pick up after us.  

That doesn't make us room-mates or them extended family.  In fact I reserve the right feel any forehead I like if I think they are coming down with something, listen to boring family stories, remind them I'm here to talk if they need me without prying if I can tell something is bothering them, put them into service for changing lightbulbs and reaching things for me on the high shelves....and yes, remind them of all the sacrifices I've made for them in a shameless attempt to guilt them should they be too slow in responding to an urgent spider killing request.

Not sugar coating it, Steve...they sometimes make decisions I don't wholly agree with.  And sometimes they refuse to learn from my mistakes and insist on making their own.  It's aggravating to have all my mistake making go to waste, ngl.  There are some sleepless nights in there that don't end at 18.

But here's the thing....faith is what gets me through.  Faith in them.  Faith that they have good enough judgement to put on the brakes before any life changing mistakes.  Faith in their inherent decency to do the right thing when it's important even when it's really hard.  Faith that I've instilled enough caution in them to keep them safe, without making them afraid to be who they are.

Faith that if they were ever in big trouble...one of those life changing mistakes...that they'd come to me so I could help.  If I did my job right they'll all know I love them for who they are regardless of what they could ever do, good or bad.  

That right there is the key, I think.  My parents weren't always great at the parenting thing and I'm messed up in a myriad of ways to this day ...but one thing I was absolutely sure of is that their love and support was completely unconditional and rock solid.  If love were conditional based on obedience I'd never have made it...I was what my mom called "a lively girl who knew her own mind" (my mother was an inordinately kind woman - that was code for total pain in the ass.)

If you love your kids for who they are, then it's exciting to see them grow up into who they are meant to be.  I think back to my kids when they were little and there are some aspects of who they are as young adults that anyone could have seen coming...and some awesome about them I wouldn't have predicted in a million years.  

Steve and Teri will never know the joy of discovering all the things about their kids which make them individuals.  Expanding their own world by sharing the different paths their kids have chosen.  And from a selfish standpoint they'll never know the incredible rush of victory when you see an adult kid put into practice the principles you've been trying to instill in them for decades when it felt like none of it was sinking in.  Or the ridiculous amount of happiness when one of them comes to you for advice because they value your opinion, not because you require full disclosure.  Or when you spend time together as a family because they want to, not because they have no other options.

Idk where the heck this diatribe came from....but I'm leaving it.  

TLDR:  I think Steve and Teri have a less than healthy approach to family dynamics

 

 

 

[Palimpsest]

2 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I think Steve and Teri have a less than healthy approach to family dynamics

And the Oscar for most obvious understatement of the year goes to ... @HerNameIsBuffy!

So glad to have you back, Buffy.  I've missed diatribes just like this.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

10 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

And the Oscar for most obvious understatement of the year goes to ... @HerNameIsBuffy!

I accept!  I don't have a speech prepared...  

And just to put it out there, I've made a ton of mistakes as a parent with the best of intentions.  By nature I'm a worrier and over protective and I had to consciously wrestle with own fears and deliberately try to find my hidden blind spots and sometimes I missed hard and would give anything for a do-over on some major decisions.

I just know how hard I tried to make all the right calls and failed...and I know my own parents didn't set out to fail at some aspects of parenting.  It's really hard.  And while some get a lot closer than others, I've yet to meet a parent who played a perfect game.  

I just know in my own experience and in others who have had less than ideal childhoods....if the unconditional love was there and the kid knew it unquestionably it provided a kind of protective armor of some kind.  Not that you didn't sustain damage from dysfunction, lord knows....but the people I knew who truly doubted their parents loved them or that love was contingent on behavior struggled much more in finding their own way as adults.  

Mileage varies and this is worth as much as psychiatric insight is from a tech person, but for me that's the thing that is most heartbreaking...how many families in this life style are raising children to believe their value is based on their words and actions rather than just being valued for who they are.  Gifts, flaws, uniqueness...the whole package.

It's funny....I come from a Catholic family but my mom went fundy lite when I was about 8 after she had been excommunicated for divorcing my dad (they did that back then.)   It was called Evangelical Free (near as I can tell each church makes up it's own rules, idk) and there was a strong anti-Catholic sentiment for the very reason that they were under the impression that according to the RCC salvation was based on works, not faith.  But so many of these families judge their very own children based on works.

Irony wasn't lost on me then, either.  

 

[molecule]

Teri's video is better than I expected. It is both energetic and calming. Through my own ministry work, I know a lot of homeschooling moms who sometimes post on Facebook about some of the same feelings of being overwhelmed that Teri talks about. Teri has practical advice. If she weren't attached to such a weirdo, I think I might be able to share this video with a few friends.)

[terranova]

I need a filter button to edit out all references to scrotums on this forum.

[Marian the Librarian]

Never mind that the "definition of insanity" didn't originate with Einstein. Ben Franklin, Mark Twain, and Narcotics Anonymous all said pretty much the same thing. 

Sloppy quoting makes the Baby Jesus cry, Stevie.

[lilith]

2 hours ago, Marian the Librarian said:

Never mind that the "definition of insanity" didn't originate with Einstein. Ben Franklin, Mark Twain, and Narcotics Anonymous all said pretty much the same thing. 

Sloppy quoting makes the Baby Jesus cry, Stevie.

Maybe he picked it up when Teri was attending NA for her raging Pepsi habit.

[Hane]

@HerNameIsBuffy, according to my former pastor, who was the local vicar of priests and an expert in canon law, divorce alone NEVER automatically equaled excommunication. Sadly, a LOT of Catholic clergy made this cruel assumption—some  still do—and no one ever called them on it. (Divorce and remarriage without a church annulment is another story.)

[molecule]

Teri's latest Mom's Corner (about when an oldest daughter is bossy or a tattle-tale) includes this lovely reminder of where Sarah got her writing abilities:

After all, He can remind you, and if He doesn’t, you will soon discover what she wanted to correct you concerning.

It's such an odd construction, really, to put "concerning" at the end like that. Is it Teri's way of a avoiding ending a sentence with a preposition?

[Palimpsest]

16 hours ago, molecule said:

Teri's video is better than I expected. It is both energetic and calming. Through my own ministry work, I know a lot of homeschooling moms who sometimes post on Facebook about some of the same feelings of being overwhelmed that Teri talks about. Teri has practical advice. If she weren't attached to such a weirdo, I think I might be able to share this video with a few friends.)

That is the talk I sat through in person a few years ago.  They change the title periodically but it is basically Managers of the Home (MOTH) with a dash of Meek and Quiet Spirit.  She expands it with more family anecdotes to fill up an hour.  MOTH is the real heart of the Maxwell ministry.  Steve is infinitely creepier.

Teri is indeed a good, polished, and experienced speaker, although I really wanted her to call for more cellos around the 3:00 minute mark.  I was also bored because I'd read MOTH so I analyzed the performance and audience reactions.   I've done a fair amount of public speaking and, to me, the talk seemed stale.  Over-practiced.  No spontaneity at all.  And absolutely no leeway for anyone to ask questions.  I had the feeling that if she lost her place in the script she would fall apart!

However, she really does tap into and validate the stress felt by SAHM and homeschooling mothers.  Also, even if you take out all the God-speak, she gives some useful tools for survival. 

Lists and schedules are good things.  Making an idol of an inflexible schedule is not.

What is missing in that talk is any acknowledgement that perhaps having fewer children might mitigate the stress.  And, if you are not a good teacher, dislike teaching, and struggle with teaching why not send your children to school.  I think Teri herself was a terrible teacher for her children.  The ability to teach and motivate kids is a gift that not everyone possesses.   My feeling is that Teri is infinitely better at teaching adults.

16 minutes ago, molecule said:

It's such an odd construction, really, to put "concerning" at the end like that. Is it Teri's way of a avoiding ending a sentence with a preposition?

Weird grammatical structure is typical Maxwell!  As is the frequent use of passive voice.  Teri's degree is in Chemistry and I bet she did not do well in English class.  

[albanuadh_1]

The entire 2nd paragraph under Implementation is confusing to me. I've read it 2x and am still shaking my head.

[Howl]

6 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

Teri's degree is in Chemistry 

I think about Teri's history of depression and wonder if part of it might be a deep sadness that she put her intellect on the back burner to become a meek, Stay-at-Home, baby making helpmeet in the Stevehovah tradition.  Surely she had dreams about what she wanted to accomplish in the world.  It seems she may have spent her adult life being hammered into something she, at her core, is not, in total service to Steve's dysfunctional but well honed ability to suck the joy out of anything. As we know, Stevehovah is  where dreams and spontaneity go to die.  

[Queen Of Hearts]

I was pleasantly surprised by Teri's practical advice in the video.  After watching it I went to Amazon to learn a  little more about the MOTH book and read the reviews (don't worry, I didn't buy).  I was humored to find that among the 'page 1' results for the book was also a Squatty Potty.  LOL!

[Jana814]

11 minutes ago, Howl said:

I think about Teri's history of depression and wonder if part of it might be a deep sadness that she put her intellect on the back burner to become a meek, Stay-at-Home, baby making helpmeet in the Stevehovah tradition.  Surely she had dreams about what she wanted to accomplish in the world.  It seems she may have spent her adult life being hammered into something she, at her core, is not, in total service to Steve's dysfunctional but well honed ability to suck the joy out of anything. As we know, Stevehovah is  where dreams and spontaneity go to die.  

That easily could have been it. She probably thought she would have a few kids and still be able to have a life outside of her home. Instead her ass of a husband decides to have a reversal and insists they have more kids. 

[Lea]

22 hours ago, nomoxian said:

 

Wow. The pacing of her speech....the background music....the rhetorical questions....the painful metaphors....

This is giving me flashbacks to every summer camp speaker (with HIGH TECH VIDEO VISUAL AIDES) and weekend "RETREAT" that went to growing up.

MAKE IT STOP

[FloraKitty35]

16 hours ago, lilith said:

Maybe he picked it up when Teri was attending NA for her raging Pepsi habit.

You just made me think of Half Baked when Dave Chapelle went to that NA meeting and told them he was addicted to weed.

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, Lea said:

This is giving me flashbacks to every summer camp speaker (with HIGH TECH VIDEO VISUAL AIDES) and weekend "RETREAT" that went to growing up.

Yep.  When she did this session at the conference she had a PowerPoint outline that was circa 1999 projected behind her.  Just plain bullet points with no bells and whistles.  And no, she did not have any handouts.  You had to buy the books instead.

1 hour ago, Howl said:

I think about Teri's history of depression and wonder if part of it might be a deep sadness that she put her intellect on the back burner to become a meek, Stay-at-Home, baby making helpmeet in the Stevehovah tradition. 

Could be, although the Maxwells insist that Teri's depression was "hormonal" and therefore not to be considered a sinful condition.  The Maxwells are a step above some Fundies in that they clearly acknowledge depression ≠ sin.

Remember, Teri and Steve met in college so she got her Mrs degree there too.  They married when she was only 19 but she finished her degree.  They were both pretty mainstream Christian at the time.  They converted together to "True Christian" a few years later.  The beginning of a slippery slope.

Teri's depression seemed to start when she began having children.  But living with Steve may have been a downer even then.  He probably wasn't as controlling then though.  That control seems to have got increasingly bad over the years.  I suspect that Teri loves the idea of children more than she liked raising children.  She doesn't seem very at ease with her grandchildren even today.  She may have definitely felt intellectually stifled.

Mind you, Steve still had his head on straight enough to get snipped after Sarah, when it was obvious Teri just couldn't cope with the three kids, homeschooling, and being left alone with full responsibility for them.  Steve was on the road for work a lot at the time.   

Seven years later he got the message from God that he had sinned by getting snipped.  God wanted him to start working from home and for Teri to keep on having babies.  So reversal ...

We've always speculated that he may have been fired (or rather managed out) of his job at Wilcox Thompson because he didn't (or wouldn't) work well with women.  Who knows what the truth is.  But then he started the computer business and they developed their ministry of the re-attached testicles and Holy Schedule.

[Foudeb]

3 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

they developed their ministry of the re-attached testicles and Holy Schedule.

This has to become a thread count! 

Werent the pre-vasectomy kids in school for a while? Apart from Sarah who may have been too young. 

We'll never know for sure but my guess is that the kids went from pre-kindergarten to going to school, mixing with others and giving Teri more free time, and Steve freaked out. The answer? Everyone stay at home all the time where he can watch them. And that went so well (for him) that he then went on to reattach his testicles to add more people. 

They are such a deeply creepy household. 

[griffin]

I was so distracted by her constant gesturing with her giant man-hands

[Palimpsest]

11 minutes ago, Foudeb said:

Werent the pre-vasectomy kids in school for a while? Apart from Sarah who may have been too young. 

Yes they were.  Thanks for adding that.  The Maxwell line is that they pulled the two boys out of school because they were picking up bad habits (something like that) and Christopher was falling behind in reading.  So depressed Teri had to homeschool them as well as manage Sarah and keep ceiling fans dusted.   It is also possible that Steve was embarrassed because Chris wasn't perfect or even that the school was wondering what was going on in the home.

[mango_fandango]

Re the “concerning” thing: it’s like they write the post out and then go through looking for possible synonyms that they then use to attempt to sound more intelligent/educated, except it just fails spectacularly. That sentence would make a lot more sense if she swapped the word “concerning” for the word “about”. 

[sleepy_doggos]

Did you guys watch the thanksgiving video too? Totally predictable, but good snark included. I was shocked by the girly, breathy way Anna and Mary speak compared to Sarah-- I think a previous poster said something a while back about Sarah being allowed to be more womanly due to her age and age difference from the two younger women.

John also speaks about Chelsy for a bit-- slight innuendos to a non Maxwell ear!

 

 

[Anonymousguest]

6 hours ago, mango_fandango said:

Re the “concerning” thing: it’s like they write the post out and then go through looking for possible synonyms that they then use to attempt to sound more intelligent/educated, except it just fails spectacularly. That sentence would make a lot more sense if she swapped the word “concerning” for the word “about”. 

But then the sentence ends in a preposition, and she's been told to never do that. Another option would be to say "... why she wanted to correct you."

[CyborgKin]

Well an optimist sees the scrotum as half full.

[albanuadh_1]

After watching some of Terri's video, I wondered if Mary thinks she is mimicking her mother? Either that or she thinks she being coy? lol