Dillards 46: Now with Pants and a Possible Nose Piercing

[Georgiana]

4 minutes ago, FleeJanaFree said:

On another subject (I've avoided commenting in this in the past because I didn't want to start an argument. I've now seen it too many times that I HAVE to say something, at least once) I think people simply arent thinking (not intentionally being cruel, just flippant) but have you actually considered what you're saying when you use the term 'butt hurt'? It's whining about rape, /or a put-down of being homosexual. 

We can do better. I know we can. 

Have you actually researched the origin of the term or were you just making assumptions?  Because you are wrong.  It's ACTUALLY derived from SPANKING.  A person is "butthurt" when they are scolded, disagreed with, or don't get their way, aka "spanked" online.  They then respond much like a child responds to being punished: complaining about the punishment without recognizing they way in which THEIR behavior contributed to the situation.  For example, a person who responds to adversity maturely is NOT considered butthurt.  Butthurt requires sulking, complaining, or other forms of childish behavior, reinforcing the fact that the term is used to pejoratively call someone a CHILD, not homosexual.  

Quote

Origin

The term “butthurt” originates from spanking[1], the act of striking the buttocks of another person, which is often seen as a method of punishing a child. Though some cultures view this as an acceptable form of discipline, it can be interpreted as abusive corporal punishment. Online, one of the earliest archived mentions of “butthurt” appeared in a 1998 comment[8] posted on the website of Swiss surrealist painter H. R. Giger.[9]

“Hollywood has tossed Giger for more talented artists, and even those artist who can emulate his style, without the tears and the hurt butts. If giger reads this I would be amazed, not only that he can comprehend a bunch of letters placed into groups and spaced randomly to create words which in turn create sentances, but that he can even UNDERSTAND the INTERNET! GIGER is LAME. all he can do is rely on his ALIEN paintings to make him famous! Well I used to be impressed until I read all this BUTTHURT he has been going through. Oh poor baby Giger.”

 

The comment was left by a poster named Doug in responding to Giger’s grievance over not being credited as a designer for sequel titles in the Aliens franchise. In the original 1979 film Alien, Giger based the extraterrestrial monsters after one of his 1976 paintings, Necronom IV. http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/butthurt

Unless you can site an example of the term used prior to 1998 online, I rest my case. 

I'm not sure WHERE you got the idea that "butthurt" must be gay but you seem to really be reading into this.  Not everything having to do with butts is gay, and it's offensive to always jump to that.  Not all gay people engage in or enjoy anal play, so we should not associate anal acts so tightly with homosexuality.  Many hetero people enjoy anal play.  Anal acts do not always cause lasting pain or discomfort.  Personally, I think that there were a LOT of unfair stereotypes that lead you to even assume that this term, which has never had an association with homosexuality, was regarding rape or buttsex.  

 

[FleeJanaFree]

Wow.  You're probably right about the origins, but I'm guessing there's an age difference between us. In my neck of the woods, it's a very common putdown used by straights, exactly like using gay as a slur. (Much like in terms calling someone OCD simply because they like things neat rather than referring to the actual disorder)

but your reaction is exactly why I've been hesitant to say anything

 

[Dandruff]

3 hours ago, AprilQuilt said:

It's hard for most young girls to know how to reject dates, or even ask for more time to conduct the relationship on their own terms: an obedient people-pleaser from a culture like Jill's just isn't going be able to say no when a guy asks her to court on camera, and her headship dad who approves of him has flown her across the world for that moment.

Anna and Joshley's engagement went along the same lines.  Joshley cooked up the scheme with her father.  Her parents brought her to a restaurant for her birthday, left her alone at the table (which appeared to worry her), then Joshley swooped in with balloons to propose.  The film crew had been hidden in the restaurant.  It's still unclear whether the Kellers knew about Joshley's molestations beforehand.

[coexist]

I was going to say something similar to FleeJanaFlee re: age and maybe location, since my first understanding of the term "butthurt" was also along the lines of it being a reference to anal sex (I'm not at all equating that to mean only gay sex, but seemingly used most often by people who were wanting to make some negative connotation there) and not a reference to spanking. But I've lived all over the US and other parts of the world so I know something can mean one thing here and another thing two states over. Couple that with how meanings can change over time, it doesn't surprise me that what I knew to be a reference to anal sex is now something else, or was something else all along for other people.

[Eatingintheprayercloset]

"FUCK YOU DERICK!" was literally the first thing I thought when I found out Doug Jones won. God, Derick is up there with Josh. Who cares if someone creeps on teen girls, just as long as they are against abortion. Can Cathy go fuck herself also? I know she is old and had a really aggressive form of cancer but her beliefs are toxic, especially considering her daughter--in-law is a victim of sexual abuse. These people are so black and white with their thinking. They would rather have a pedophile in the house who believes 9/11 happened because our society is filled with sin, homosexuality should be illegal, and black people were happy during slavery.........just because he is "pro-life"! Roy Moore supporters preach about having morals but they are the most morally bankrupt people in  the country. 

[bananabread]

3 hours ago, artdecades said:

I keep thinking about this too. This cult forced her to go all in on the first guy she has feelings for.

 

3 hours ago, AprilQuilt said:

I just watched the Derick and Jill courting episodes, which I haven't done since they were aired I think. It's really heartbreaking in retrospect - she was backed into a corner, with the trip to Kathmandu and the cameras following her and JimBoor constantly bringing the conversation back to courtship, marriage, and sex. So awkward.

This is all even more true/disturbing when you think about that interview Jill did after she got married. She described being overwhelmed by lustful, SiNfuLL (read: totally normal) desires as a teenager/young adult, and talking to her parents about how to manage them. So the whole JB setting Jill up with Derick thing could also be read as "godly daddy gives daughter a righteous path to fulfilling the urges he knows she has been struggling with." Which, yeah, is creepy af.

There was this whole subtext of "Jill REALLY wants a husband *wink wink*"/ "God is speaking to Jill that she's ready for a husband"/"Gotta marry Jill off because it's better to be married to a stranger than to burn in lust etc etc" that none of us viewers knew about when she traveled to meet D-Wreck in Nepal. It adds a whole new dimension to the pressures Jill was under. The pressure to be ultra-pure until marriage, the pressure to get married so she finally has a sexual outlet/any sense of privacy, the pressure to show her beloved JB that she was willing to do things the "godly" way........wow, just wow. 

I can't find a link to the original interview, but here's Inquisitr's article about it: https://www.inquisitr.com/1894421/jill-duggar-admits-that-she-used-to-be-really-boy-crazy/

[apandaaries]

2 hours ago, AprilQuilt said:

It might be that they won't break away the way we hope they will - there won't be a definitive exit or a dramatic exposé, and who knows what they might defect to in terms of politics or religion. I do think that there will be a general drift away as the years go by and the TV show ends and the influence wanes and it just becomes less materially rewarding to toe the line.

You're right, the kids from the howlers down probably haven't been subjected to as much Pearlism, and they've also been generally neglected: I don't think they are as invested in the programme since they've always been overlooked, plus have experienced the pain and confusion of losing their sister-moms as they go off to get married. I can see any number of them defecting in one way or another, but by that time it might not even matter so much. There's a general move to reject Gothardism - it's not fashionable or politic any more, and the older girls are already showing non-Jim-Bob thinking in terms of piercings and pant-wearing.  It's little - and it's a mistake to equate clothing changes with spiritual shifts - but it IS an incremental normalisation. The littles have grown up frumper-free, seeing men in shorts and beards, and perhaps not being hit with a wooden spoon in infancy; depending how their older siblings' marriages evolve, they'll be exposed to more interpretations of Christianity.

I can see them growing quietly away, but I can also see Jenni getting out to educate herself at 17, and raising merry hell 

Jessa and Ben I think have the potential to drift into more mainstream conservative Christianity, but even if she never leaves,  Jessa's strong will has served her well - she seems mentally healthier and happier than Jill. She made some smart choices looking out for number one, but I don't think she's self-absorbed - she seems to do a good job with her kids. She's definitely not full J-Rod bu any stretch of the imagination.

I should clarify that while I would deeply love an expose (I'm not computer literate enough for an accent mark, damnit, but know that it should be there), any of the kids getting out would make me happy.  Given that Josh has already done so much to bring the family down in the media, I doubt any would dramatically flounce (prove me wrong, Duggarlings!). But I think they overplayed the sister-mom aspect of their child rearing techniques.  Jennifer has had some disturbing reactions to sister moms being married off. Josie seems to be the only little who is securely attached to MEchelle.  JB has never been great with his boys (he's so damned competitive with them).  

Who really knows how much time and energy they're spending on indoctrinating these middle and younger kids?  It doesn't seem like much and they weren't known for putting out much effort before...even so, parental loyalty is very difficult to overcome, even in the worst of circumstances. But I do suspect that some must feel overlooked and some must realize that it wasn't fair or right for Josh to treat his sisters and Anna (and who knows who else) as he did. And those littles saw Anna grieving over his actions.  Surely that had some impact beyond "trust in Jesus."

However, the combination of educational neglect and material comfort  will perhaps make some stay when they would otherwise leave.  Most of the Shrader brothers have left the fundie lifestyle; Anna's had siblings leave. We have Cynthia Jeub on another thread, and she's not the first sister to leave.  We have had a number of scandals this year, too. Some of those in those big fundie families have to be reconsidering their life choices and spiritual decrees. With the Duggars, I have a feeling we're not done with scandals from the family, especially now that there are more in-laws.  Try as JB might, you just can't control everyone.

I also feel compelled to clarify that I think Jessa is doing very well.  That stubborn, strong will has protected her from becoming a doormat. She and Ben seem to have created a happy family life together; in no way would I compare her to J-Rod. 

[Knight of Ni]

I just have one thing to say:

BYAHHHHHHHH!

[AprilQuilt]

2 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

They also have ZERO education. I wonder how many of them can actually read, not even mentioning reading comprehension...

With no education and no understanding of self-preservation or the need for critical thinking, there's no way they'll leave the cult.

 I always thought this, but I just read Tara Westover's memoir, Educated. Her parents were some kind of fundie Mormon preppers. She received no education and didn't even have a birth certificate until she was nine, but she did get herself out at the age of 17, kind of by increments.

There are many differences between her experience and theirs - particularly that the Westovers were not part of a community who shared their beliefs, and that there was emotional and physical abuse/danger that compelled her to physically leave even before she had fully mentally/emotionally cut ties with the family or with Mormonism. But if someone like her, from such a siege-minded, intellectually impoverished background, can raise herself up to leave and go to college (she now has a PhD), I believe that it wouldn't be beyond the Duggar kids. Not saying they will break that narrow, deprived mindset, but it can be done.

35 minutes ago, bananabread said:

 

This is all even more true/disturbing when you think about that interview Jill did after she got married. She described being overwhelmed by lustful, SiNfuLL (read: totally normal) desires as a teenager/young adult, and talking to her parents about how to manage them. So the whole JB setting Jill up with Derick thing could also be read as "godly daddy gives daughter a righteous path to fulfilling the urges he knows she has been struggling with." Which, yeah, is creepy af.

God, that's horrific. I didn't know that.

29 minutes ago, amandaaries said:

I should clarify that while I would deeply love an expose (I'm not computer literate enough for an accent mark, damnit, but know that it should be there)

I had to copy and paste it 

I didn't think you were suggesting Jessa had a touch of the J-Rods, btw. Just my own musing.

[VelociRapture]

@coexist @FleeJanaFreeI usually check reputable dictionaries to see if they have definitions for terms like this. Oxford English Dictionary actually does have a definition for butthurt:

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/butthurt

We’re living in some weird times for butthurt to be listed there... 

Dictionary.com also lists the origins as coming from the act of spanking as @Georgianastated:

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/butthurt

Now, that doesn’t mean it can’t or won’t mean different things to other people (as coexist said.) It’s happened with other words I won’t mention right now. But the actual definition is not a slur in anyway and I don’t think the use of it as a slur is widespread enough to justify it being viewed mainly as a slur by everyone here (I could be wrong though and I’ll stand corrected if I am.) 

I do think it was good of you to mention it though @FleeJanaFree because it is a term that clearly means something very different to you than it likely means to many of us. It’s good to have other perspectives.

(For the record - I’m white, 29, from the Northeastern US, and female - since you mentioned possible generational differences.  )

[MarcyMM]

From the midwest and I never once thought of the term butthurt in a sexual way. I've always just seen it used as shown above: an informal adjective used to describe someone overly or unjustifiably offended. Anything sexual never ever even entered into my mind.

[seraaa]

3 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

Re: Moore: Apparently his brother said that people who voted for Jones are going to have to answer to God for what they did. 

It's just mind-boggling that Derick, whose wife was herself molested, either has no problem backing a molester or doesn't believe the many people who have either accused Moore of molestation and other inappropriate behavior or have backed up those accounts.

Wait, what, Jones is saying? From what I've seen so far, Doug Jones is moderate in all senses of the word - he wasn't even harsh when he called for Moore to concede. Lordy. 

[Sky with diamonds]

12 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I shudder to think of Derick's opinions on what happened to his wife given his opinions on Roy Moore.

RUN, JILL. YOU DESERVE BETTER.

She does deserve better. Her spark seemed to have vanished in the last couple of seasons. It must be hard to be married to Derick. 

[Drala]

Rightwing Christian nutjobs like Roy Moore and his brother don't believe in separation of church and state.  This is why Roy Moore was removed not once but twice from the Alabama supreme court.  They're called Dominionists, and they are active in the democratic process to establish a theocracy.  Anyone who opposes them politically is against God.  Roy Moore is a theocrat in Republican clothing.  People like him are the basis for Atwood's dystopian Handmaid's Tale.

[onekidanddone]

22 hours ago, Dandruff said:

Yet one more reason I hope Derick never has a daughter.

I am also afraid  he will pass down the Gothard view of women to his sons.

6 hours ago, Knight of Ni said:

There are several pictures of Moore supporters praying for a victory. Obviously God did not answer their prayers. How do the evangelical set justify the fact that their prayers did not work? Is there ever anything more than “it was God’s will”?

Oh he answered alright. He said "Oh HELL NO".

[llg1234]

Looks like Derick definitely has braces again. I'm not sure how he's being 'sweet' here. I am surprised they have a Keurig still, I would have thought that Derick would've joined his ultra conservative brethren and gotten rid of it. 

 

 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

Jill got married because she was horny. That is the stupidest reason to get married, the 2nd stupidest is because you already have.  

I still think Boob married off Jinger & Joy so quickly because they are "damaged goods" in the cult it is the only reason I can see Boob putting up with Jeremy and allowing Jinger to move all the way to Laredo and allowing Joy to marry so young and move to the Forsyth umbrella. Seeing as all the other married are still totally dependent on boob for housing and finances. J&B don't own that house Boob does, it's just in their name for tax reasons. 

Jill & Jessa were offered up for ratings, I also think Boob rushed J&D to marry because J&B had to wait until Ben was old enough, he needed a daughter to marry as he knew it would bring big ratings and lots of attention. 

[Sky with diamonds]

1 hour ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Jill got married because she was horny. That is the stupidest reason to get married, the 2nd stupidest is because you already have.  

I still think Boob married off Jinger & Joy so quickly because they are "damaged goods" in the cult it is the only reason I can see Boob putting up with Jeremy and allowing Jinger to move all the way to Laredo and allowing Joy to marry so young and move to the Forsyth umbrella. Seeing as all the other married are still totally dependent on boob for housing and finances. J&B don't own that house Boob does, it's just in their name for tax reasons. 

Jill & Jessa were offered up for ratings, I also think Boob rushed J&D to marry because J&B had to wait until Ben was old enough, he needed a daughter to marry as he knew it would bring big ratings and lots of attention. 

I think Jill's goal was to get married and have babies. That seems to be her whole life goal. That is sad to me, because she could be doing so much more if only she had more education and skills.

My hope is on Jinger. Whatever she ends up doing, I hope she will be happy. I think Jessa is content, Jill hasn't been for at least a couple of years, too early to tell about Joy. I can't help but wish and want the best for them. 

[Seahorse Wrangler]

4 hours ago, AprilQuilt said:

I had to copy and paste it 

 

I do that as well, otherwise I spend far too long re-setting my keyboard back to English from French.

[SamiKatz]

1 hour ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I still think Boob married off Jinger & Joy so quickly because they are "damaged goods" in the cult it is the only reason I can see Boob putting up with Jeremy and allowing Jinger to move all the way to Laredo and allowing Joy to marry so young and move to the Forsyth umbrella. Seeing as all the other married are still totally dependent on boob for housing and finances. J&B don't own that house Boob does, it's just in their name for tax reasons. 

I don't think any of the Jill, Jessa, Jinger or Joy married any younger than other girls in the cult do, they all seem to be pretty young when they do so. The married Bates women were all pretty young as well.

Also, from what I've read and heard, I think molestation is pretty common in the cult, so Im not sure they were be considered "damaged goods". 

[TheMustardCardigan]

The article about Jill makes me sad.  So much about her marriage to Derrick seems rushed. I mean, it's plain to see it's rushed even from the outside, but with Jill saying she felt like a horrible person because of "all these wrong thoughts" (aka being a teenager) and that she talked to her parents a lot about it and prayed a lot about it... A lot of people have observed that Jill was the goody two shoes child, the tattletale. It seems she tattled on herself and her parents said "Whelp, time to set this one up with a husband ASAP!" Regardless of whether that husband would be a good match in the long run.

[AtlanticTug]

Not to defend Jim Bob (gross) but he genuinely does seem to care for Jill and I think she is his favourite. I don't think he sold her off to Derrick for ratings in some calculated move. I think that Derrick sort of found himself at the right place at the right time. I do think that Jim Bob would indulge Jill by having her be the first married daughter, something that probably meant a lot to her. And objectively speaking I would hazard a guess that most of the viewers would consider Jill to have been the most ready aside from Jana. She was much better with the younger kids, much more maternal than Jessa or Jinger. She seemed very eager to please and helpful and harder working than them. Combine that with Derrick who on paper and at first impression seemed like an educated guy who also had a "heart for Christ" or whatever, eager to do missionary work while also having a very reputable professional job with probably a pretty decent salary and benefits. I'm just saying it's very possible that Jim Bob had the best intentions. How was he supposed to know that Derrick was actually a lazy dirty hippie Jesus deep down? NOBODY here thought it and in fact most seemed to think he would save Jill.

[Fluffypaws]

It's hard envisioning the scene when Jill told her parents about her "feelings". I imagine it went something like "Mom, Dad, I'm horny and need a husband. Meanwhile, let's pray for my soul". How sad.

[nickelodeon]

^ in my experience with church/homeschool teen life, anything from being friends with guys to enjoying teen movies can get you branded "boy crazy" by the other repressed teens and their parents, so I take the story about Jill's "struggles" with a grain of coarsely-ground sea salt!

[Sky with diamonds]

10 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

^ in my experience with church/homeschool teen life, anything from being friends with guys to enjoying teen movies can get you branded "boy crazy" by the other repressed teens and their parents, so I take the story about Jill's "struggles" with a grain of coarsely-ground sea salt!

What a 'life'. 

I think Jill was mature before her courtship,  but was she prepared to get married and have children so quickly? Food for thought.