Dillards 46: Now with Pants and a Possible Nose Piercing

[Drala]

For the first time in many years, I'm proud to claim my family roots in Alabama.  It's been 40 years since I left and 15 years since I last visited, so I was pessimistic about this election.  Today, I'm feeling elated that kith and kin voted for a prosecutor of justice for murdered girls over an outlaw predator on young girls.  

D'wreck is a lost soul.   His endorsement of predator Moore is staggering given his wife's victimization.   Opens the eyes to the deep level of family dysfunction that is going on.  Sad for Jill.     

[onekidanddone]

12 hours ago, snickers34 said:

Yes he did. He admitted that he did not vote for Trump or Hilary.

I understand that, and respect it. He is still a conservative and Clinton does not share his points of view. That being said, he is not an insane racist fuck wad.  He must be one of those #nevertrump Republicans. I'm wondering did he even vote? If so Johnson, Stine, or write in?

[MargaretElliott]

I just think it's absolutely mind-boggling that considering his wife's history, Derick should be fighting tooth and nail AGAINST child-molesting pigs... but apparently Jesus thinks touching little girls is okay, as long as you're against abortion and hate poor people. It's probably the girl's fault anyway, for being immodest or some such bullshit.

I hate this cult. His views on politics really show how much they value the safety of women- which is not at all.

[LegHumperBibleThumper]

On 12/7/2017 at 12:57 PM, catlady said:

Mr CL regularly forgets to empty his pockets.  i've washed tissues, receipts, work schedules, keys, pens, chapstick, and money.  the money is up for grabs; i accept it as compensation.  i've come close to washing his wallet, but always manage to rescue it.  once, when he was working at a gas station, they had recently installed a digital sign for the prices that was operated with a little remote control.  yep, Mr CL carried it home and put his work clothes in the laundry.  that one was rescued because his coworker called him saying he couldn't find it.

I have definitely washed AND dried my husbands wallet. Some of his cards don't slide properly now. Oh well - not my fault. 

[onekidanddone]

FJ should send Derick a condolence card Re: Moore.

[AprilQuilt]

I just watched the Derick and Jill courting episodes, which I haven't done since they were aired I think. It's really heartbreaking in retrospect - she was backed into a corner, with the trip to Kathmandu and the cameras following her and JimBoor constantly bringing the conversation back to courtship, marriage, and sex. So awkward.

Jill should have had the right to properly scope out this guy - she kept saying she wasn't sure - and she had that stolen from her.  It's hard for most young girls to know how to reject dates, or even ask for more time to conduct the relationship on their own terms: an obedient people-pleaser from a culture like Jill's just isn't going be able to say no when a guy asks her to court on camera, and her headship dad who approves of him has flown her across the world for that moment.

I don't think the whole thing is a sham, I just found it quite alarming to see how little choice she had, even compare to her sisters' courtships. I think if she'd been/felt able, she'd have asked at least for more getting-to-know-you time. I know other people have said all this before, but I'm freshly outraged at how utterly dicked-over she has been by Derick and JimBob and their whole cult. She was flattered by Derick's interest, and she was attracted to him and (the idea of) his lifestyle; those facts alone should never have committed her to spending her whole life with him, enduring terrible births and failing at meeting his expectations.

At least the other girls made free-ish choices. I'm increasingly impressed by all the time Jessa insisted on taking while courting Ben; it can't have been easy to stand up for herself with all those eyes on her relationship. But as soon as Jill got on that plane to Kathmandu, there was basically no backing out. I feel so sorry for her.

[Audrey2]

After seeing the way Derick supported Moore, I hope Jill only has boys. I wouldn't want him to share his hateful ways with a girl, so she's taught to blame herself if anyone is ever inappropriate with her.

[ViolaSebastian]

26 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

FJ should send Derick a condolence card Re: Moore.

“Our deepest sympathies on your butthurt.”

[Cleopatra7]

6 minutes ago, Audrey2 said:

After seeing the way Derick supported Moore, I hope Jill only has boys. I wouldn't want him to share his hateful ways with a girl, so she's taught to blame herself if anyone is ever inappropriate with her.

The problem is that it’s boys like Izzy and Sam who grow up to be men like Derrick that some other clueless fundie girl will end up marrying. Whether Jill has sons or daughters the cycle will repeat itself unless one of these said offspring manages to enlighten his or herself.

[Drala]

I got the feeling that Jill  thought she "knew" Derrick well enough from her grilling him with a thousand questions about his beliefs during the long-distance period.   Unfortunately, beliefs don't translate directly into behavior, otherwise, we wouldn't have hypocrisy. Her trip to Nepal with Daddy was one of the few episodes I've watched, and I was also struck by how often she said she didn't know whether she wanted to enter a courtship relationship with Derrick.  But she decided to throw in her lot with him--in large part, I think, because Daddy approved.    She may not have trusted Derrick or her own feelings, but she definitely trusts her Dad.

For Jill to become seriously disenchanted with Derrick, she'd also have to process feeling betrayed by her trust in Daddy's judgment about her marriage partner.  There's a certain folk wisdom that says we often end up with partners who are reminiscent of our parents.  Jill went there in spades on her wedding day when she talked about how she knew she was doing the right thing because she was marrying a guy like Dad.  The dysfunction is strong in this one...

[HarleyQuinn]

41 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

FJ should send Derick a condolence card Re: Moore.

[AprilQuilt]

9 minutes ago, Drala said:

For Jill to become seriously disenchanted with Derrick, she'd also have to process feeling betrayed by her trust in Daddy's judgment about her marriage partner.  There's a certain folk wisdom that says we often end up with partners who are reminiscent of our parents.  Jill went there in spades on her wedding day when she talked about how she knew she was doing the right thing because she was marrying a guy like Dad.  The dysfunction is strong in this one...

Yes!! It's been a process accepting that my own dad is a bit of a dick (I hero-worshipped him as a teenager), for someone like Jill it must be huge. I do wonder if any of the Duggar kids have his number at all. If they talk amongst themselves re being irritated/let down by him, how to protect themselves from him etc, or if his judgement is still absolute to them. In the case of Jill's courtship, he definitely should have been there to advocate for her, not to basically sell her. He let her down for the sake of TV, and I really wonder if any of them see it - if any of the newlyweds like Joe and Joy are scaling back their public profile in defiance of him.

I don't want to speculate too hard, but I can see one or two of them maybe breaking away from Jim Bob without breaking away from their religion.

[apandaaries]

9 minutes ago, Drala said:

<snip>  She may not have trusted Derrick or her own feelings, but she definitely trusts her Dad.

For Jill to become seriously disenchanted with Derrick, she'd also have to process feeling betrayed by her trust in Daddy's judgment about her marriage partner.  There's a certain folk wisdom that says we often end up with partners who are reminiscent of our parents.  Jill went there in spades on her wedding day when she talked about how she knew she was doing the right thing because she was marrying a guy like Dad.  The dysfunction is strong in this one...

I absolutely agree with this. Even on her wedding day, she spoke of how she asked her dad to find her someone just like him, and he did (then she gave another nervous smile).  

Regarding the different approaches she and Jessa had, I think a large part of that was also due to Ben's younger age.  I'd always understood Jill's hesitation as her maidenly, godly way of deferring to her dad's plan and God's will (that's the correct order, right?).  There was some discussion as well about whether or not the two overlapping courtships signaled more competition between the sisters.  

Ultimately I think it'd be very challenging for a people pleasing fundie maiden to even know what she wanted in a mate.  Jessa has never focused on pleasing others as much as Jill; Jessa always came first for Jessa, I think.  And that's not a bad thing.  In fact, it seems like an excellent survival skill for her upbringing (though I imagine that some other sibling stress resulted from that attitude).

 Jessa is often cited as one of their difficult-to-raise children, too.  She's certainly conformed to the happy fundie wife lifestyle, but I wonder what that means for later stubborn children.  Jessa would have gotten the full Pearl treatment growing up, and she still maintained a sense of self.  That gives me some hope for the younger ones. I'm always waiting for someone to break free, but maybe I just need a bit more patience.

And Jesus, poor Jill, the attention-seeking goody two shoes who drank all the Kool-Aid and did her best to share it with her siblings.  I wonder what's going on in her head about her husband, Moore, and her own abuse at the hands of her brother.  Some of those thoughts have got to be extraordinarily negative, and her only outlets are prayer, spiritual counseling, and fellowship.  DWreck often seems so annoyed with her, interrupting and talking over her, or telling her she's too loud.  He's such a horrific person overall, and to have to honor him as headship? She really got fucked over by the fundie life.

[VelociRapture]

13 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Moore lost! Can't wait to see dWRECK's persecuted tweet. Give me those salty tears, I'm thirsty. 

No joke, my husband fell asleep while watching tv last night and didn’t know Moore had lost. This was almost exactly my response to him when he asked what he missed.

 

12 hours ago, seasonsoflife said:

I was in the NICU for about 3 months and for the first 10 years of my life on my birthday my mom and I would bring a cake to the NICU nurses. I wish I could find them and tell them I am having my own baby now (due almost on the same day I was, I told him he CANNOT, under any circumstance, show his face around here before May starts).

That is such a sweet idea! Maybe we’ll do something like that next year.

The day Velocibaby was discharged we brought thank you cards and trays of really good cookies for the NICU staff and the Nurses who cared for me after the birth. We also attended the annual NICU reunion in May - about 200 NICU grads showed up with their parents and it was awesome seeing the staff who cared for her again under such happy circumstances. We’re hoping to go again next spring so they can (hopefully) see her running around and talking.

And yes. Your son is not allowed to show up until after May 1st. Velocibaby agrees with this and will give him a very firm talking to if he worries you about that at all!

[artdecades]

I keep thinking about this too. This cult forced her to go all in on the first guy she has feelings for. Had she been allowed to date and "give away pieces of her heart", maybe she would have dated him for a while and then realized he was an aimless, smug fame chaser. But she wasn't allowed to that. She had to fall head over heels in love with him and marry him within a year of knowing him.

 

Fundie dads have shown they have terrible judgements. Whether it is Anna's dad with Josh and John Shrader, the Morton father with Alan, or JB with Derick.. Granted John and Derick aren't criminals, but still not really fit to be headships. Grilling someone on their knowledge of the bible and living "debt free" isn't enough to realize someone is right to be a husband and father. 

[LegHumperBibleThumper]

On 12/12/2017 at 12:25 PM, Hashtag Blessed said:

@singsingsing there has been a lot of success with gastric surgeries actually. This may sound extreme but it has been shown to be more successful for long term weightloss than any diet. For people who are health-threateningly overweight this is an expensive but proven option. However, what I believe she’s talking about when she says diets fail is not making healthy changes to your diet, shes talking about “going on a diet.” Meaning following whatever regimen is hot at the time. Juice clenses, intermittent fasting, keto, paleo, slim fast, whatever. Anything that causes rapid weight loss in a short time will ultimately fail in the long term. 

 

I've gone on a ketogenic diet twice and weight watchers twice.  I agree with what you are saying about rapid weight loss and then gaining it back, however healthy principals are there. I felt much better/healthier/happier while in a state of ketosis and most people who have tried it would agree. I cooked more, I was more in touch with my body, I had little to no cravings, ate TONS more veggies and protein, my cholesterol was down, my blood pressure remained healthy, I slept deeper and my energy was through the roof.  I would absolutely choose that as a permanent lifestyle if it wasn't so difficult to keep up with. Some of the "fad" diets (keto, paleo, weight watchers) start out with good, healthy information but are VERY difficult to stick to long term and have real consequences (ie. major weight gain) when we decide to jump off of them. There is also the issue that majority of doctors would NEVER suggest someone go on a high fat diet in order to lower their cholesterol, blood pressure and weight even though it does work. 

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, ViolaSebastian said:

“Our deepest sympathies on your butthurt.”

Maybe send some ointment too? So he can apply it to the epic BURN Alabama just handed down!   

[Knight of Ni]

There are several pictures of Moore supporters praying for a victory. Obviously God did not answer their prayers. How do the evangelical set justify the fact that their prayers did not work? Is there ever anything more than “it was God’s will”?

[AprilQuilt]

19 minutes ago, amandaaries said:

Jessa is often cited as one of their difficult-to-raise children, too.  She's certainly conformed to the happy fundie wife lifestyle, but I wonder what that means for later stubborn children.  Jessa would have gotten the full Pearl treatment growing up, and she still maintained a sense of self.  That gives me some hope for the younger ones. I'm always waiting for someone to break free, but maybe I just need a bit more patience.

It might be that they won't break away the way we hope they will - there won't be a definitive exit or a dramatic exposé, and who knows what they might defect to in terms of politics or religion. I do think that there will be a general drift away as the years go by and the TV show ends and the influence wanes and it just becomes less materially rewarding to toe the line.

You're right, the kids from the howlers down probably haven't been subjected to as much Pearlism, and they've also been generally neglected: I don't think they are as invested in the programme since they've always been overlooked, plus have experienced the pain and confusion of losing their sister-moms as they go off to get married. I can see any number of them defecting in one way or another, but by that time it might not even matter so much. There's a general move to reject Gothardism - it's not fashionable or politic any more, and the older girls are already showing non-Jim-Bob thinking in terms of piercings and pant-wearing.  It's little - and it's a mistake to equate clothing changes with spiritual shifts - but it IS an incremental normalisation. The littles have grown up frumper-free, seeing men in shorts and beards, and perhaps not being hit with a wooden spoon in infancy; depending how their older siblings' marriages evolve, they'll be exposed to more interpretations of Christianity.

I can see them growing quietly away, but I can also see Jenni getting out to educate herself at 17, and raising merry hell 

Jessa and Ben I think have the potential to drift into more mainstream conservative Christianity, but even if she never leaves,  Jessa's strong will has served her well - she seems mentally healthier and happier than Jill. She made some smart choices looking out for number one, but I don't think she's self-absorbed - she seems to do a good job with her kids. She's definitely not full J-Rod bu any stretch of the imagination.

[artdecades]

WTF is the deal with Derick's most recent tweet. If he had any self awareness I'd say it was about himself but we all know he doesn't

 

[Rachel333]

Re: Moore: Apparently his brother said that people who voted for Jones are going to have to answer to God for what they did. 

It's just mind-boggling that Derick, whose wife was herself molested, either has no problem backing a molester or doesn't believe the many people who have either accused Moore of molestation and other inappropriate behavior or have backed up those accounts.

[Georgiana]

36 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

Re: Moore: Apparently his brother said that people who voted for Jones are going to have to answer to God for what they did. 

 

This is how I imagine that going down:

God: Did you say mean things about this man?

Gee: You know I did.

God: Were they untrue things?

Gee: You know they were not.

God: Were they unkind things?

Gee: Your son said unkind things to the moneychangers sullying the temple.  I felt it was justified to say  unkind things about a man who is preying on children.  No offense, but I feel like that is worse.

God: It is.  I'm pretty fond of kids.  Pretty sure I put that somewhere in the Bible.  Anyways, welcome to heaven and here is a smoothie.  

~~MEANWHILE~~

God: Did you sexually exploit and prey on young women?

Roy Moore: Yes, but--

God: GET THE HELL OUT.

[justoneoftwo]

1 minute ago, Georgiana said:

This is how I imagine that going down:

God: Did you say mean things about this man?

Gee: You know I did.

God: Were they untrue things?

Gee: You know they were not.

God: Were they unkind things?

Gee: Your son said unkind things to the moneychangers sullying the temple.  I felt it was justified to say  unkind things about a man who is preying on children.  No offense, but I feel like that is worse.

God: It is.  I'm pretty fond of kids.  Pretty sure I put that somewhere in the Bible.  Anyways, welcome to heaven and here is a smoothie.  

~~MEANWHILE~~

God: Did you sexually exploit and prey on young women?

Roy Moore: Yes, but--

God: GET THE HELL OUT.

The thing I find interesting is I don't think Moore would say yes to that.  He honestly doesn't seem to think he preyed on them. I don't know how he thinks like that but he does.  

[SapphireSlytherin]

59 minutes ago, AprilQuilt said:

You're right, the kids from the howlers down probably haven't been subjected to as much Pearlism, and they've also been generally neglected

They also have ZERO education. I wonder how many of them can actually read, not even mentioning reading comprehension...

With no education and no understanding of self-preservation or the need for critical thinking, there's no way they'll leave the cult.

[FleeJanaFree]

Regarding past candidates pulling out because of 'scandals'-real or exaggerated, let's remember Howard Deans campaign essentially ended because he screamed oddly at a rally. It's astounding in light of that Moore got so far. 

On another subject (I've avoided commenting in this in the past because I didn't want to start an argument. I've now seen it too many times that I HAVE to say something, at least once) I think people simply arent thinking (not intentionally being cruel, just flippant) but have you actually considered what you're saying when you use the term 'butt hurt'? It's whining about rape, /or a put-down of being homosexual. 

We can do better. I know we can.