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Seewalds 28: Marketing Kids as Deflection


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I just want to chime in here about the Bible. The Bible provides amazing wisdom to those who read it and take time to evaluate it (which I do as part of my small group).  Most of the young people in my small group are well educated (think engineer's). 

I am  well educated (Bachelor's/Master's). For those who think that it is hard to be a person of faith and educated, the more that I learn about this world and how complex we are to me is evidence as something greater is going on.  I believe that the bible is a living thing. Understanding historical context is key.  

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When my son was maybe 11 months old - we were in Florida. He had on some sweatpants (gray, blue, I don't remember) and one of those onesie tshirts with neon orange little crabs on it. (not obnoxious -

It's OK. She'll have a huge stretchy headband with a flower on it. 

Okay, so I don't usually weigh in on Duggar threads because I am super passionate about how shitty fundie life is, and it's all still kind of triggering... but I have firsthand experience with that fe

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Carm_88

Jessa posted an old picture of herself getting caught doing something she's not supposed to be and not caring that she got caught! 

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Mlissmartin
On 11/15/2017 at 4:42 PM, Carm_88 said:

It's hard to believe that once upon a time, Derick was a dorky would be accountant who worked at Walmart and who people could see, eventually leading Jill away from fundamentalism. Ben and Jessa were a fire and brimstone couple who seemed to be stirring up trouble every other week. Now Ben and Jessa are relatively normal and Derick and Jill are the fire and brimstone couple getting in trouble every couple of days. 

Keeps things interesting :)

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Sky with diamonds
14 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

Jessa posted an old picture of herself getting caught doing something she's not supposed to be and not caring that she got caught! 

I never realized before how much Spurgeon looks so much like Jess until now. :pb_surprised:

He is an adorable kid.

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VineHeart137

The family attended a concert that Jackson and Johannah performed in. Jessa posted about it on her IG story. Henry sure is a cutie.

Screenshot_20171119-084802.thumb.png.85368924638d18e19b5ccd8cbb68915f.png

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Carm_88

Henry is so cute! He's after changing so much lately, he looks less like an old man baby now. He's still a chunk though! 

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Glasgowghirl

Henry is adorable. It's nice to see Jackson and Hannie participating in things outside the home. It is probably church related but them mixing with other kids is a good thing.

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justmissedquiver
On 11/17/2017 at 4:54 PM, SapphireSlytherin said:

I wonder how many of those PhDs are honorary? Lol

More likely from unaccredited schools. I know someone who was a "Ph.d" in two years of study and calls himself dr. He also runs a Christian counseling center and advertises as a psychotherapist.

http://m.newburghseminary.com

http://unitedgraduatecollegeandseminaryintl.com/?page_id=360

 

 

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divadivine

Thread drift.... 

The new stove my apartment complex promised me arrived Wednesday night.* I just had the chance to use it today. I toasted some bread for gluten free stuffing this week. Anyhow, I am happy to report I didn’t catch the owner’s manual on fire like Jessa. Mostly because they must have taken the manuals with them, but I did check several times before I preheated the oven. 

 

* this is the stove they promised to deliver when I was on vacation in August/September. I had to get loud & crazy with corporate when it still hadn’t been delivered in November. This along with so many other maintenance requests that hadn’t been done/or done incorrectly/half-assed. Now, I just need to figure out how to get a new refrigerator. Then all my appliances will match. 

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SeekingAdventure

congrats on not setting your owners manual on fire @divadivine :my_biggrin:

 

Good to know it is not a regional thing that things promised for July are still not here in November and the delivery company gets irritated if you ask when it will be finally delivered. it's not like we arranged a July delivery, after all... 

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Flossie
11 hours ago, divadivine said:

The new stove my apartment complex promised me arrived Wednesday night.* I just had the chance to use it today. I toasted some bread for gluten free stuffing this week. Anyhow, I am happy to report I didn’t catch the owner’s manual on fire like Jessa. Mostly because they must have taken the manuals with them, but I did check several times before I preheated the oven. 

Is there a drawer on the bottom of the stove that holds a broiler pan?  The owners manual might be there.  I also knew a woman who was shocked to find the owners manual hidden in a metal pocket installed on the upper back of her washer.  After using trial and error to learn how to use the extra settings, when they removed it to make room for a new washer they found the manual in a dust covered plastic wrapper out of sight, but within reach the entire time they owned the washer.  It's the sort of thing the salesperson or the delivery person might not know to tell you about.

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LookieLoo
On 11/18/2017 at 1:48 PM, bekkah said:

I just want to chime in here about the Bible. The Bible provides amazing wisdom to those who read it and take time to evaluate it (which I do as part of my small group).  Most of the young people in my small group are well educated (think engineer's). 

I am  well educated (Bachelor's/Master's). For those who think that it is hard to be a person of faith and educated, the more that I learn about this world and how complex we are to me is evidence as something greater is going on.  I believe that the bible is a living thing. Understanding historical context is key.  

Yes Yes Yes

It really bothers me that the overarching theme here is that if you are a person of faith, you must be some poor, uncultured, uneducated idiot. I am about to obtain my Bachelors and I would like to think my critical thinking skills are pretty solid. But I am also a person of faith. The two do not have to be mutually exclusive. Our existence in this world is so much more complex than what I believe only science and reason can provide answers for.

I hate that we all have to be lumped in with fundamentalist wackos like the Duggars.

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Carm_88
8 minutes ago, LookieLoo said:

Yes Yes Yes

It really bothers me that the overarching theme here is that if you are a person of faith, you must be some poor, uncultured, uneducated idiot

I don't believe that has ever been stated here. We were talking specifically about the Duggars and their lack of critical thinking skills due to the SOTDRT. Which is completely true, I don't think that anyone said that the general world who reads the bible has none. 

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singsingsing
7 minutes ago, LookieLoo said:

Yes Yes Yes

It really bothers me that the overarching theme here is that if you are a person of faith, you must be some poor, uncultured, uneducated idiot. I am about to obtain my Bachelors and I would like to think my critical thinking skills are pretty solid. But I am also a person of faith. The two do not have to be mutually exclusive. Our existence in this world is so much more complex than what I believe only science and reason can provide answers for.

I hate that we all have to be lumped in with fundamentalist wackos like the Duggars.

Okay, I have to ask - the overarching theme where? Who is perpetuating this myth or stereotype? Did I miss a bunch of posts where people were claiming that you couldn't be a person of faith and also be educated and intelligent? I can only speak for myself, but I was very clearly (I thought) and specifically referring to the Duggar brand of religion: fundamentalist religion which rejects science, rejects critical thinking, and warns its children of the dangers of higher education.

I think the majority of FJers follow some form of religion or spiritual belief system - the majority might even consider themselves Christians. I happen to be one of them. We also have many atheist/agnostic members, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone claim that 'if you are a person of faith, you must be some poor, uncultured, uneducated idiot.' If they did, they were probably downvoted to oblivion.

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Satan'sFortress

We also just had to get a new oven, and no--there was no manual.  I think they are all online now.  I hate that--I just want a freaking paper manual.  I'm a simple woman with simple needs.

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LookieLoo
13 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

I don't believe that has ever been stated here. We were talking specifically about the Duggars and their lack of critical thinking skills due to the SOTDRT. Which is completely true, I don't think that anyone said that the general world who reads the bible has none. 

There's a difference between just reading the Bible as a piece of literature and it being a cornerstone of your faith, to whatever degree that may be (For the Duggars, this means being Biblical literalists). So, my issue is more with the scoffing at how you could believe anything in the Bible as more than just an interesting piece of fiction.

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singsingsing
3 minutes ago, LookieLoo said:

There's a difference between just reading the Bible as a piece of literature and it being a cornerstone of your faith, to whatever degree that may be (For the Duggars, this means being Biblical literalists). So, my issue is more with the scoffing at how you could believe anything in the Bible as more than just an interesting piece of fiction.

Could you give examples of who was saying this, please? There's a huge difference between saying that you have no idea how people can believe that the Bible is the literal, inerrant word of God in the sense that the Duggars believe it, and saying that you think it's nothing more than an interesting piece of fiction. And it's entirely possible to view the Bible as a piece of literature and have it be a cornerstone of your faith.

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VelociRapture

To defend Jessa, the whole “setting the manual on fire” scene may have actually been staged for the show. Just like:

- Jill “not knowing” how much rice to make for three people

- Jinger “not knowing” the names of pasta shapes 

- I’m assuming there was a courting episode or will be a newlywed episode featuring Joy “not knowing” how to cook as well. 

Its a running theme on 19 Kids and Counting On to feature the daughter being inept in the kitchen. Usually she’s shown with a female relative of her beau (Jessa cooking with Ben’s sisters, Jinger with Jeremy’s Grandma, and I believe Joy made cheesecake with Austin’s Mom and sister), but not always (Jana helping Jill cook Nepali food for Derick soon after their wedding - very possibly because Cathy was battling cancer at that time.)

I do honestly believe that Jessa doesn’t like to cook and may not be great at it though. That’s fine as long as she and her family are able to eat somehow. 

5 minutes ago, LookieLoo said:

There's a difference between just reading the Bible as a piece of literature and it being a cornerstone of your faith, to whatever degree that may be (For the Duggars, this means being Biblical literalists). So, my issue is more with the scoffing at how you could believe anything in the Bible as more than just an interesting piece of fiction.

Do you have examples from this thread? The only comments I’ve noticed have been very clearly directed towards people like the Duggars, but I may have missed what you’re talking about. 

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Carm_88
10 minutes ago, LookieLoo said:

There's a difference between just reading the Bible as a piece of literature and it being a cornerstone of your faith, to whatever degree that may be (For the Duggars, this means being Biblical literalists). So, my issue is more with the scoffing at how you could believe anything in the Bible as more than just an interesting piece of fiction.

I haven't seen in this thread where someone said that the bible was a piece of literature. I think it was more so stated that the Duggars do not have critical thinking skills. 

Their use of the bible, as cornerstone of their faith or not, gives them some radical thinking. I'm not cool with people trying to bring the world back instead of forward. There's no place for that. If you use your faith to infringe on the rights of other human beings who are doing nothing to you, then your faith shouldn't have a leg to stand on. 

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Four is Enough
On 11/17/2017 at 9:49 PM, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

i seriously doubt a bunch of evangelicals would make anything as close to funny as Mel Brooks.

Not on purpose, for sure. But their "research" could prove hilarious.

 

 

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LookieLoo

To be fair, I can't say that any of the comments in this thread were "scoffing" at anybody besides the Duggars, but the discussion definitely triggered something because it's a theme that I sense sometimes as I read through different threads on this site. So, no, I'm not calling anyone out specifically.

I will say that I do feel for some of the Duggar adult offspring, because I can identify with them to a point. I was raised in a similar environment and had what many would consider a sub-par education that did not promote critical thinking skills. As an adult, I have not completely abandoned my faith, but as I've developed my critical thinking skills, I have rejected a lot of the beliefs I was raised with. So, I think that Jessa and Ben may come to think differently about certain aspects of the beliefs they were indocrinated with. But I don't think it should be automatically assumed that because they have not abandoned their faith entirely that they are still brainwashed and not thinking for themselves.

21 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Their use of the bible, as cornerstone of their faith or not, gives them some radical thinking. I'm not cool with people trying to bring the world back instead of forward. There's no place for that. If you use your faith to infringe on the rights of other human beings who are doing nothing to you, then your faith shouldn't have a leg to stand on. 

I agree. This is not what my posts are addressing.

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Just now, LookieLoo said:

To be fair, I can't say that any of the comments in this thread were "scoffing" at anybody besides the Duggars, but the discussion definitely triggered something because it's a theme that I sense sometimes as I read through different threads on this site. So, no, I'm not calling anyone out specifically.

I will say that I do feel for some of the Duggar adult offspring, because I can identify with them to a point. I was raised in a similar environment and had what many would consider a sub-par education that did not promote critical thinking skills. As an adult, I have not completely abandoned my faith, but as I've developed my critical thinking skills, I have rejected a lot of the beliefs I was raised with. So, I think that Jessa and Ben may come to think differently about certain aspects of the beliefs they were indocrinated with. But I don't think it should be automatically assumed that because they have not abandoned their faith entirely that they are still brainwashed and not thinking for themselves.

And how about people who are educated who came to faith in their adulthood?  Difference between Jim Bob and Michelle, they both came into their faith as teenagers. 

 

A lot of people I know have come into their faith in late 20s/early 30s, completely different outlook on their life and experiences. 

 

I currently go to a church where we talk about poverty pretty much every week and we have honest conversations about race/#metoo campaign. Most FJers would think I go to a conservative church. My point is that the Duggar education is not equal to most Christians. Most Christians go to public education and university. Things that they have never been afforded.  A good thing is that Ben is pursuing education (he does have an associate degree from a community college even though he is going to a bible college, that is better than his in-laws). Ben and Jessa have more of a shot than Jill and Derick to change their beliefs. Even if they move into a conservative tradition, Jessa is likely to experience new beliefs or ideas outside of the church she grew up in. 

 

 

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Flossie

Is it really making memories when you're just hanging out at your parents house and you do that several times a week, and there's nothing really unusual going on?

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