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Rachel333

45! The Dillards seem to inspire a lot of discussion. I think our current president has kind of ruined that number for me, unfortunately.

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NakedKnees

Errr I haven't figured out how to quote from previous threads yet! 

I agree with @RubyRei- pointing out the cases isn't very "helpful or constructive." I always say that I think it's absurd that the catholic freakin' church did away with the position of Devil's Advocate, and yet we still treat it like a legitimate argumentation method (although it's not far off from socratic in some ways, I admit).

Anyway, something that I think is often ignored when folks want to clarify that cases of X oppressed group doing Y bad thing is justice. Were these individuals (who happen to be in an oppressed group) punished appropriately for their actions? I never hear about trans people (or black, or LBGT+, or mentally ill, or muslim, or whatever) get away with their crimes the way privileged groups do, particularly when the victim of the crim is from that privileged group. Perhaps the conversation should focus on that rather than the on the probably unrealistic concept that no trans person has ever committed a sex crime in a public bathroom.

After all, the movement is called "Social Justice," not "Socially Oppressed People Never Commit Crimes."

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Rachel333
2 minutes ago, NakedKnees said:

Anyway, something that I think is often ignored when folks want to clarify that cases of X oppressed group doing Y bad thing is justice. Were these individuals (who happen to be in an oppressed group) punished appropriately for their actions? I never hear about trans people (or black, or LBGT+, or mentally ill, or muslim, or whatever) get away with their crimes the way privileged groups do, particularly when the victim of the crim is from that privileged group. Perhaps the conversation should focus on that rather than the on the probably unrealistic concept that no trans person has ever committed a sex crime in a public bathroom.

I think that's a great point. If you want to worry about people getting away with crimes it's white men, especially rich white men, who you need to look at.

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Georgiana

The grift goes on, the grift goes on
Fans keep pouring dollars to our bank
La de da de de, la de da de da

Working jobs was once the rage, uh huh
History has turned the page, uh huh
The "mission trips", the current thing, uh huh
Getting paid to "serve the King", uh huh

The grift goes on, the grift goes on
Fans keep pouring dollars to our bank
La de da de de, la de da de da

No paychecks when you crowdfund, uh huh
Working life's for those who leg hump, uh huh
And men still keep on marching off to work
While I'll sit here online and be a jerk

The grift goes on, the grift goes on
 

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VelociRapture

I agree. That is a fantastic point @NakedKnees!

@Rachel333I do see your point, but I almost think it doesn’t matter. Are people like Derick and Jill Dillard going to feel safe and relaxed knowing that only X number of Transgender individuals harassed or harmed people in bathrooms? No. All they’ll care about is that even one Transgender individual committed a crime and they’ll wave it around as proof that their bigoted views are right. 

I read the transcript of a Ted talk a Transgender man gave recently. I can’t remember the man's full name, but his first name was Jack. One thing he said is that more Congresspeople have been found guilty of committing sexually based crimes in bathrooms than Transgender individuals. Maybe that’s a better argument or defense than simply stating that there are no cases at all.

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Lurky

I don't understand who is meant to be saying "Trans people don't commit crimes" at all, as literally no one has in these threads.

ETA I also this it's completely fair that when @Rachel333 specifically said several Trans people have been caught committing sexual/violent crimes in public bathrooms, to ask for citations.   If it's "not constructive" to ask for citations for that, then it's also not constructive to state it in the first place if the opinion can't/won't be backed up with reputable sources.  (And changing rooms/homeless shelters are not public bathrooms).

Anyway, I get that we disagree on this, and I'm done arguing about it, because it's exhausting.  

Edited by Lurky

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SuchABlessing

Poor Jill is promoting derecks fundraiser on Instagram and the comments are brutal. I hope they take the hint. There's even a trending hashtag #getajobdereck

I wonder if anyone has reported his fundraiser to gofundme for fraud since we know he uses the proceeds of any donation to go on vacations and not work?

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thinandfit

It's just sad to see her publicly support him in this when he's basically doing it so he doesn't have to work- why not get a real job and go help out on missions trips each year using your holiday time?

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NakedKnees
48 minutes ago, Lurky said:

I don't understand who is meant to be saying "Trans people don't commit crimes" at all, as literally no one has in these threads.

ETA I also this it's completely fair that when @Rachel333 specifically said several Trans people have been caught committing sexual/violent crimes in public bathrooms, to ask for citations.   If it's "not constructive" to ask for citations for that, then it's also not constructive to state it in the first place if the opinion can't/won't be backed up with reputable sources.  (And changing rooms/homeless shelters are not public bathrooms).

Anyway, I get that we disagree on this, and I'm done arguing about it, because it's exhausting.  

I want to be clear that I don't expect you to argue this and I understand why it's exhausting and why being exhausted by it shouldn't be necessary for anyone. I'm really sorry if I made that experience worse for you.

I don't think there's anything wrong with you asking for citations. I really meant for my comment to be critical of bringing up the subject in the first place, which is what you were being critical of in a different way by asking for citations, in my opinion. It is a totally valid and useful thing for you to ask.

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Tatar-tot

You little Jingers are little Devils! Yuza Grifter and company:  love it!  You added at least $5 in humor to my day!

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onekidanddone
2 minutes ago, Tatar-tot said:

You little Jingers are little Devils! Yuza Grifter and company:  love it!  You added at least $5 in humor to my day!

I don't know what you're talking about. :my_rolleyes:

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Desertrose

Isn't this the second GFM that has been created to Derick to go to school?

i agree with several of the posters. Get a job like the rest of us!

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llg1234

Jill needs PR training from Jessa (or the Bates). Posting a blurry photo of your husband's failing fundraiser is not a good way to win people over. Nothing about this looks appealing. 

 

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Rachel333
1 hour ago, Lurky said:

I don't understand who is meant to be saying "Trans people don't commit crimes" at all, as literally no one has in these threads.

ETA I also this it's completely fair that when @Rachel333 specifically said several Trans people have been caught committing sexual/violent crimes in public bathrooms, to ask for citations.   If it's "not constructive" to ask for citations for that, then it's also not constructive to state it in the first place if the opinion can't/won't be backed up with reputable sources.  (And changing rooms/homeless shelters are not public bathrooms).

Anyway, I get that we disagree on this, and I'm done arguing about it, because it's exhausting.  

For the record, there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking for citations, I agree. That's fair and if I really didn't want to give any sources I shouldn't have brought it up in the first place, and I did give a bathroom specific example. I agree that the homeless shelter incidents weren't the same thing, I just liked what the blog had to say about it. Some other sites reported it as a bathroom incident, but looking into it shows that only one of those incidents happened in a bathroom.

No one said no trans people commit crimes, but several people did indeed say (or quote someone saying) that trans people have literally never committed any bathroom crimes. That was a common talking point that seems to be used less these days. I got hung up on that statement completely accurate (not the first time I've gotten hung up on that kind of thing when I should just let it go) and I wish I had never brought it up in  the first place.

Edited by Rachel333

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Giddy
Carm_88

How about no? I have much better things to do with my time then read Derick's come to Jesus and give me money spiel. At first you don't succeed try, try again doesn't always work. Derick needs to go to plan B or C or any other letter in the alphabet. 

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Rachel333

It really isn't a good photo of Derick. Surely they have better ones of him looking like a missionary.

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Waffle Time
mango_fandango

@Georgiana that exact song popped into my head when I saw the title!! Sadly I've only heard a modern cover of it but I still love it :D 

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Wine time!
BlondeIdol

Are we even sure that is Derick there in the picture? It's so blurry it could be Republican Jesus for all we know.

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Rachel333
2 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I agree. That is a fantastic point @NakedKnees!

@Rachel333I do see your point, but I almost think it doesn’t matter. Are people like Derick and Jill Dillard going to feel safe and relaxed knowing that only X number of Transgender individuals harassed or harmed people in bathrooms? No. All they’ll care about is that even one Transgender individual committed a crime and they’ll wave it around as proof that their bigoted views are right. 

I read the transcript of a Ted talk a Transgender man gave recently. I can’t remember the man's full name, but his first name was Jack. One thing he said is that more Congresspeople have been found guilty of committing sexually based crimes in bathrooms than Transgender individuals. Maybe that’s a better argument or defense than simply stating that there are no cases at all.

Thank you for seeing where I was coming from!

I agree that it's not really going to matter to someone like Derick. That's a good point about Congress people, and I'm sure there are more cases we don't even know about considering the recent reports about sexual harassment in Congress, and you can't really argue with a point like that the way someone can with the "no cases at all" argument.

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Georgiana
22 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

@Georgiana that exact song popped into my head when I saw the title!! Sadly I've only heard a modern cover of it but I still love it :D 

I think it is PARTICULARLY appropriate since I can think of no celebrity with a longer and stronger history of LGBTQ+ advocacy than Cher.  She's overcome a lot in her life, worked hard, and STILL finds time to advocate to make the world a better place.

Derick could learn a lot from her.  But she'd probably tear him to shreds first.  

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Meh
Dandruff
2 hours ago, SuchABlessing said:

Poor Jill is promoting derecks fundraiser on Instagram and the comments are brutal. I hope they take the hint.

From what I can tell they take money, not hints.  Leghumpers - come to the rescue!  Bet the large, odd, anonymous amount was from his mother.  I don't think anyone would really scrounge and donate their last dollar to a "cause" like his.

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Sad
feministxtian
3 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

What a person's anatomy looks like under their clothing is of ZERO interest to me. If a person goes into the women's bathroom, I just assume she's female and go on with my life. I give less than zero shits about who's in the next stall in the bathroom - as long as they flush, don't pee all over the seat, and wash their hands.

Mah GIRL!!! You and me! Just don't pee on the seat, flush (and make sure the TP goes down), wash your hands and that's all!!!! Otherwise, I don't give a DAYMN who or what you are...

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aurora_boo

This bathroom/trans business:

I'm guessing that the anti-trans people would be fine with Buck Angel in the ladies' bathroom then?

Pffff.

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