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Rachel333

Hollywood's Next Creep

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Rachel333
1 hour ago, FecundFundieFundus said:

Possibly unpopular opinion: having an affair that is completely consensual (ie no power imbalances, no pressure) is a really shitty thing to do but doesn't necessarily mean you can't be described as a feminist. Some people are bad spouses but good otherwise.  

Even if it's totally consensual between the cheater and the person they're cheating with (and I wouldn't take that for granted with Joss, given that many of the women he had affairs with were women he had significant power over), the cheater is still lying to and manipulating their spouse, which is abuse, not to mention exposing the spouse to potential STIs, which is not something the spouse consented to.

If you support feminist principles but are abusive to women in your own life you are, at the very least, a hypocrite. If Joss wanted to sleep with lots of women then he could have been upfront about it and said he wanted either an open marriage or a divorce, but he wasn't. He chose to lie to and manipulate his wife instead.

44 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

Well crap, another one to cross off my list. :my_sad:

I know, it's sad. I used to like him too but I think it has become clear that he is not a good person. 

Edited by Rachel333
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nausicaa
21 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

My please no list: Obama, John Prine, Keith Olberman, Jamie Raskin, Ray Wylie Hubbard, Joss Whedon, David Simon, Andre Braugher

Posthumously: Steve Goodman, Guy Clark, Wallace Stegner. 

Charles Osgood and Tom Hanks. I really, really need Tom Hanks to be a good person.

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Loveday
21 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Charles Osgood and Tom Hanks. I really, really need Tom Hanks to be a good person.

And newsman Harry Smith. I know not one thing about his personal life, only that he comes across as a kind and thoughtful reporter on TV, and every time I see he's about to do a story, I know I'm not going to want to miss it. If he turns out to be another Matt Lauer or Harvey Weinstein, I'm going to do some serious ugly crying.

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adidas

@Rachel333 ITA regarding affairs and consent.

And while Tom Hanks and affairs are popping up in the same thread - I was so upset when I found out he cheated on his first wife with Rita :(

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VelociRapture

I’m not making a Please No list. I’m convinced every single person listed will be accused of something if I do.

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Rachel333

SNL had a great song about sexual harassment.

 

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VelociRapture
11 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

SNL had a great song about sexual harassment.

 

My favorite part was when Leslie Jones came out. I was fully expecting them to ignore her very valid point about women of color, but they didn’t and it made the entire thing even better. Well played SNL!

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Cleopatra7

James Levine of the Metropolitan Opera was suspended after abuse allegations:

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/12/03/arts/music/james-levine-met-opera.html?_r=0&referer=https://www.google.com/

Granted, this one wasn’t a shock to me, because like with Kevin Spacey, there have been rumors going around for decades. But I had hoped there was nothing to them. However, I read that a former roommate of one of the men who has come forward confirms that he told him about the abuse decades ago when it happened, so I’m inclined to think Levine is a creeper now.

ETA I really shouldn’t have looked at the comments on the link. Lots of victim blaming and excuses. These sorts of comments on the NYT are especially bad because the commenters always think they are so hip and above Puritanical norms when they defend some creep of abuse when all they are are enablers.

Edited by Cleopatra7

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EmmieJ
On 11/29/2017 at 7:53 PM, HarryPotterFan said:

...In other news, Geraldo Rivera is an asshole. 

 

That's not news to me.  Has he ever been anything but a massive asshole?

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EmmieJ
On 12/2/2017 at 1:25 PM, FecundFundieFundus said:

Possibly unpopular opinion: having an affair that is completely consensual (ie no power imbalances, no pressure) is a really shitty thing to do but doesn't necessarily mean you can't be described as a feminist. Some people are bad spouses but good otherwise.  

I think if you truly believe women deserve equal treatment/pay/respect, then you also believe in being honest with your partner.  If you are in a relationship and your partner believes it is monogamous, while you secretly have affair after affair, you are both dishonest and disrespectful.  I have always made it clear to my partners over my life, that if at any point while we are still together they are seriously considering becoming intimate with another person, they should tell me.  At that point in time, before intimacy occurs.  That allows me the opportunity to discuss the situation, we can decide together if we shall part ways (either temporarily or permanently), or if I'm okay with an open relationship.  Cheating on your partner is never okay.

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FecundFundieFundus

don't think cheating is okay. I personally believe in being honest with one's partners and choosing ethical non-monogamy if that's what works for you. 
However, I personally feel that being a crappy boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife doesn't mean someone is necessarily a horrible human being in other aspects of their life. From MLK Jr to that one uncle who's been married five times but still gets invited to holiday dinners, other people's marriages are really their business. 

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VelociRapture

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/time-person-of-the-year-2017-silence-breakers/

Time’s Person of the Year for 2017 has been named. They went with the women and men who made up the viral #metoo movement earlier this year and I think it’s a fantastic choice. Among those interviewed for the article (either extensively or briefly) are:

- Ashley Judd, who was harassed by Harvey Weinstein and helped blow the lid off his secret crimes

- Selma Blair, who was harassed, assaulted, and threatened into silence by James Toback

- Taylor Swift, who was sued by a DJ who groped her several years ago and who won her counter suit for a dollar against him this summer

- Juana Melara, who was subjected to harassment over decades while working as a hotel housekeeper and was nearly assaulted at least once

- Crystal Washington, who worked at the Plaza and was repeatedly subjected to lewd comments and groping by a coworker - including one incident caught on camera to which the hotel failed to appropriately respond

Many other women were either interviewed or named in the article. They also mentioned the international impact the movement had and I was glad to see Time pointed out that the statistics for sexual assault are much higher for women of color and members of the Transgender community as well - a lot of people and groups are getting better about reflecting that fact, but it was still nice to see though. I don’t think that can ever be overstated.

The article also mentioned something I found interesting. Apparently, a majority of Republicans and Democrats believe a Democrat accuses of sexual misconduct should resign  (71% and 74%), but only 54% of Republicans believe the same of the politician accused is a Republican (Democrats were 82%.) So, at least in this case, Republicans are far more likely than Democrats to put party before the health and safety of human beings.

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Rachel333

I love that Trump made it into the Person of the Year article after all, as one of the men accused and one of the catalysts for the movement.

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neurogirl

I saw this on reddit but 2016: the year all your favorite celebrities are dead. 2017: the year all your favorite celebrities are dead to you. 

My no list: Obama, Trudeau, Jon Stewart, LeVar Burton, Jimmy Fallon, Tom Brokaw

Edited by neurogirl

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Rachel333
On 12/4/2017 at 6:45 PM, FecundFundieFundus said:

don't think cheating is okay. I personally believe in being honest with one's partners and choosing ethical non-monogamy if that's what works for you. 
However, I personally feel that being a crappy boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife doesn't mean someone is necessarily a horrible human being in other aspects of their life. From MLK Jr to that one uncle who's been married five times but still gets invited to holiday dinners, other people's marriages are really their business. 

I do get what you're saying, since it's a pretty common argument, and I didn't take it as you saying cheating is okay.

Still, I do think that cheating is at least emotional abuse. Pretty much by definition it involves lying to one's spouse, usually along with gas-lighting and other manipulation, and often exposing them to STI's which is not something they consented to. I have a hard time accepting that someone who is an abusive spouse can be a good person.

I think far too often people accept cheating and other forms of abuse as none of their business. For a long time people made that exact same argument about physical abuse, and even now men who have been physically abusive, like John Lennon or Sean Penn, can still be fairly well regarded in society. I don't buy that what they do in their personal life shouldn't affect how I see them in the rest of their life, and while I don't think cheating is exactly the same, I do think there are parallels.

Now, if someone cheated once when they were young, regrets it, and has been faithful for a long time since then I don't really take that as a negative indictment of their overall character, but habitual cheating (as cheaters often do) is another matter.

It's absolutely true that people can do both bad things and good things, and that's one of the many complexities of human nature. I think people can go way too far excusing the bad things when someone is doing good things, though, and that leads to things like people supporting a president who has abused women because they like his policies (I'm thinking of both Clinton and Trump here), or voting for a child molester because at least he's not a Democrat, so I think you've got to be awfully careful about that sort of thing.

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VelociRapture

I know not everyone here is a Taylor Swift fan (and that’s absolutely fine - she’s done some shitty things over the years), but how big an asshole do you have to be to not only grope someone and sue them because you got fired for doing so, but then turn around and pull something like this?

https://www.google.com/amp/people.com/music/taylor-swift-groper-says-he-paid-her-last-week/amp/

Seriously dude?! The only reason this became a spectacle is because you’re an entitled prick who can’t accept that you got what you deserved. 

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VelociRapture

Al Franken announced he will be resigning from the Senate in the coming weeks:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/amp/al-franken-satirist-turned-senator-resign-amid-sexual-misconduct-allegations-n825576

Democrats have held some of their party members responsible for their actions. When can I expect the Grand Old Party to do the same with Trump and Moore? Never? Because they put party before country? :my_angry:

Edited by VelociRapture

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HarryPotterFan

Dylan Farrow, questions why the #MeToo movement has not brought down Woody Allen and why Hollywood continues to support him. CW since Farrow discusses the assault he endured as a child.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-farrow-woody-allen-me-too-20171207-story.html

Woody Allen has always given me the creeps, even before I knew what a bag of shit he is.

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Cleopatra7
4 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Al Franken announced he will be resigning from the Senate in the coming weeks:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/amp/al-franken-satirist-turned-senator-resign-amid-sexual-misconduct-allegations-n825576

Democrats have held some of their party members responsible for their actions. When can I expect the Grand Old Party to do the same with Trump and Moore? Never? Because they put party before country? :my_angry:

There are a bunch of comments at DailyKos whining about how getting rid of Franken will needlessly eliminate a solid blue senatorial vote while the Republicans stand by their men no matter what. And her I thought liberals were actually supposed to care about things like sexual harassment /s. It reminds me why I’ve soured on Dailykos, the Democratic Party, and the hyper focus on electoral politics.

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VelociRapture
2 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

There are a bunch of comments at DailyKos whining about how getting rid of Franken will needlessly eliminate a solid blue senatorial vote while the Republicans stand by their men no matter what. And her I thought liberals were actually supposed to care about things like sexual harassment /s. It reminds me why I’ve soured on Dailykos, the Democratic Party, and the hyper focus on electoral politics.

I feel like a lot of people are being stupid about Franken. When it was just the first accuser I was on board with waiting for the Ethics Investigation to conclude - mostly because she had said she didn’t want him to be forced out unless others came forward. I felt like if she were ok with him staying then it was ok with me if he stayed... but now there are multiple accusers and I feel the situation has changed. I appreciate Franken’s work over the years and I’m incredibly disappointed we’re losing such a solid blue vote in the current political climate, but he acted disgustingly and I do think he needs to step down. I’m sorry if I wasn’t clearer about that earlier. 

It does still really piss me off though. I’m pissed that Franken is resigning while Trump is still in office and Moore is still being backed by his party. It’s absolutely disgusting in so many ways and I’m so sick of the GOP willingly embracing sexual predators, racists, xenophobes, and religious zealots all while they claim they are the party of moral superiority and patriotism. 

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Terrie

Being from Minnesota and being represented by Franken, I can tell you whoever is appointed to finish out his term will be very blue. There are a lot of good candidates being rumoured as potential appointees, includeing Lt. Gov. Tina Smith and Rep. Keith Ellison.

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VelociRapture
14 minutes ago, Terrie said:

Being from Minnesota and being represented by Franken, I can tell you whoever is appointed to finish out his term will be very blue. There are a lot of good candidates being rumoured as potential appointees, includeing Lt. Gov. Tina Smith and Rep. Keith Ellison.

I thought your current Governor was Republican though. Wouldn’t he be more likely to appoint another Republican until a special election next year?

15 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

Dylan Farrow, questions why the #MeToo movement has not brought down Woody Allen and why Hollywood continues to support him. CW since Farrow discusses the assault he endured as a child.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-farrow-woody-allen-me-too-20171207-story.html

Woody Allen has always given me the creeps, even before I knew what a bag of shit he is.

I feel so bad for Dylan. I believe her claims, but even if I didn’t I’d still feel bad for her being at the center of such a public custody dispute in that way. At the very least she has a very supportive mother and her brother, Rowan, has been incredibly supportive of her as well. 

I’m not sure if I’ve ever seen Woody’s films. I do make an effort to avoid seeing movies that I know he has worked on though. Guy is creepy enough with how his relationship with Soon-Yi began - Dylan’s accusations just make it that much worse. 

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Terrie
Just now, VelociRapture said:

I thought your current Governor was Republican though. Wouldn’t he be more likely to appoint another Republican until a special election next year?

:huh: 

No. Just... Really, really no. Where the heck did you get that idea? Dayton isn't quite Bernie Sanders, but he's very, very DFL.

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VelociRapture
3 minutes ago, Terrie said:

:huh: 

No. Just... Really, really no. Where the heck did you get that idea? Dayton isn't quite Bernie Sanders, but he's very, very DFL.

... I googled Michigan by mistake...

... I swear I can read... :embarrassed::pb_lol:

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