Question- Doug Phillips and VF summary?

[Hufflepuffpride]

Hello! I wanted to start reading the threads on DPIAT but have no idea where this started or where to look. Can anyone help?! Thanks! 

[Destiny]

I don’t think there’s a summary, but we have an archive.
http://www.freejinger.org/forum/257-doug-phillips-vision-forum/

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

@Destiny, I was having a look in that archive to see if we have a summary and I fell down a rabbit hole of an FJer who was a recovering (maybe? hopefully?) racist who might have been posting on S***m F****. Yikes! Every archive is riddled with such interesting rabbit holes! I'm glad @Curious updated our supply of rescue ferrets.  

ETA--I hope you find some useful info there, @Hufflepuffpride. Sometimes, I just start reading the newest threads on a topic. It gives me an idea of how far back I want to read. I think some other posters prefer to deep dive and read everything available. Good luck! 

[Destiny]

Yup. That mess was something. IIRC, and I might not, some of those lovely people followed us home in that mess. I have a bad memory for drama though, so I could be full of crap.

[neurogirl]

@Hufflepuffpride Love the username. I am absolutely NOT the most qualified, as I just jumped in to those threads this year (but went back to some of the earliest). I am missing out on much, but I will attempt to offer a SOTDRT-quality primer on the very basic story.

Doug Phillips (Doug Phillips Is A Tool, DPIAT) was the head of Vision Forum, which wasn't ATI but was fundamentalist, patriarchal, etc. Much was made of the stay-at-home daughter movement (the Botkin daughters and Lourdes Torres were in a big documentary about this), umbrellas of protection, the good old days, etc. The Bradrick!! threads are also from the VF movement, as a VF-royalty marriage gone wrong. Phillips and the upper echelon of VF made a lot of money from selling VF homeschool and character development materials. Phillips is married to Beall and they have a number of kids, the youngest who is about 12 now. Anyway, it was suspected that Phillips was a weird dude. One of his infamous moments is the wide stance (seriously, google "Doug Philipps wide stance") he took at a VF wedding. It was also long suspected that he may be interested in men or even involved with men secretly. 

On Oct 30/31 of 2013 I believe (known as Tool-O-Ween), Phillips shocked-but-not-shocked the community and FJ when he abruptly announced he was stepping down due to indiscretions of the heart with a young lady, but that he did not "know her in the biblical way." The young lady would later come forward as Lourdes Torres, the family nanny. Of course this "affair of the heart" was quite predatory, as Phillips was much older, and the earthly head of Torres' religion. Phillips had told Torres that Beall would die soon (????right) or that he would otherwise be with her. Torres was known as Hero for a while on the threads. She has since married and divorced and appears to have moved away from fundamentalism. Since losing the church and massive amounts of money, Phillips is now galavanting across the globe alone photographing young women (one in particular, Flo) who are vintage-y dancers/burlesque entertainers, and who look shockingly like his daughters. He has changed his name several times and appears to not want to be connected to VF. 

Phillips' family seems to pretend that nothing is wrong. His daughters continue to cosplay as WW2 era ladies and sing to veterans in their Operation Meatball. Beall blogs about turning 50 with almost no mention of her husband abandoning the family. She recently tried to grift for money for her daughter to go abroad. 

And thus ends my knowledge of VF and Doug Phillips. 

[Hufflepuffpride]

@neurogirl Thank you!! You are a saint for doing this haha.

I didn't realize there was a documentary! How weird is this rabbit hole?! 

[Destiny]

Very. Lol.

[unholypoledancer]

So Doug Phillips goes off to be a tool and his family is just like "Nope, nothing to see here!" If that doesn't scream "DYSFUNCTIONAL!" I don't know what does. 

[Destiny]

[mention=24668]neurogirl[/mention] Thank you!! You are a saint for doing this haha.

I didn't realize there was a documentary! How weird is this rabbit hole?! 

The documentary is called Return of the Daughters. Off the top of my head, both Botkin women, Jasmine Bachman (sp?), Lourdes Torres, and Kelly Bradrick are all featured. Sad really, because most of the stories didn’t turn out well, and several of the women featured are no longer married.

ETA: not judging divorce FTR, it’s just an example of how the patriarchy clusterfuck and courting doesn’t lead the the perfect outcomes they try to sell.

[meowfundiecatz]

The Botkins host in RotD. It used to be on YouTube. The Valenti's were in it as well. Here's some fun *wink* reads here. https://botkinsisters.com/2007/08/return-of-the-daughters-update-1

[Hufflepuffpride]

Oh man, I am going to have to watch these after work! 

If you do not hear from me in 12 hours, send help.

[Destiny]

Oh man, I am going to have to watch these after work! 
If you do not hear from me in 12 hours, send help.

I’ll have wine and rescue ferrets too!

[Hufflepuffpride]

Okay, I tried to read their blog and just could not get through it. Are these two for real? I have to stop reading or I will throw my laptop. Did Doug Phillips (is a tool) have a hand in making these women who they are? I know they mention VF a lot. So they must have been raised based on those beliefs. It really is a shame because they write very well and are clearly well spoken and intelligent. SO much potential. 

[Leftitinmysnood]

But also the costumes, the posing, the faux military getups when meeting real veterans, the manly adventures, the Titanic obsession, and how they'll all go to heaven impeccably shaved - by their daughters. Because all girls are good for is shaving dad and cheering for brothers while they go have manly time and playing with American girls doll knockoffs with puritan names. My dad pegged DPIAT as a poser in the first VF catalog we got because he held his fishing rod upside down.

[Hufflepuffpride]

I am so creeped out about the shaving.

[dripcurl]

Awesome summary @neurogirl. I had no idea of his photography endeavors and Flo! And honestly, I always thought Lourdes and Liberty had similar faces. 

[bea]

Awesome summary [mention=24668]neurogirl[/mention]. I had no idea of his photography endeavors and Flo! And honestly, I always thought Lourdes and Liberty had similar faces. 

Oh, that's one of the creepiest recent things - one of the daughters (Liberty?) in sinful NYC with Daddy (but not Beall) dancing and singing outside the theater showing Hamilton for Daddy to film. Pretty sure the performance is locked up now, but it was WEIRD.

[unholypoledancer]

^ WTF, that does sound very weird. I wish I could see it now!

[Palimpsest]

Excellent summary, @neurogirl!

On 10/31/2017 at 11:29 PM, Hufflepuffpride said:

Okay, I tried to read their blog and just could not get through it. Are these two for real? I have to stop reading or I will throw my laptop. Did Doug Phillips (is a tool) have a hand in making these women who they are? I know they mention VF a lot. So they must have been raised based on those beliefs. It really is a shame because they write very well and are clearly well spoken and intelligent. SO much potential. 

Unfortunately the Botkinettes are for real.  They are also sometimes referred to as the Robotkins here.  The whole family is off.  The sons play with guns a lot -- very irresponsibly.  Geoff Botkin's weirdity predates Doug Phillips though.

While Gothard (IBLP and ATI) mostly preys on Baptists, Doug Phillips and the Vision Forum crew mainly prey on Presbyterian Reformed people.  So there are minor differences in doctrine and belief.  The VF crowd seem almost racy compared to Gothardites.  They drink and dance and some of the women wear spaghetti straps.

Doug Phillips was the VF lead, used to work for HSLDA, and was also one of the people behind NCFIC.  Others in that crowd, besides Botkin, are Scott Brown, Voddie Baucham, and the now disgraced R.C. (Spanky) Sproul, Jr.  

So many rabbit holes!

[mango_fandango]

I'm not even going to try and make sense of the Tool, but I'm just popping in to say that Beall is such a bizarre name. 

I nicked this from FJ somewhere (google images, FJ was the source), but this was a photo from the Tool/Beall wedding. Check dem outfits.

[JermajestyDuggar]

It's so early 90s I can't look away! 

[unholypoledancer]

Tool had hair back then!!

I agree, Beall is a weird name. Like how do you say it? I keep wanting to say it Be-All. 

Dat floral print tho.

[Palimpsest]

5 minutes ago, unholypoledancer said:

Beall is a weird name. Like how do you say it? I keep wanting to say it Be-All. 

She pronounces it Bell.  As do most people who have Beall as a surname in the UK.  I know not why.

We call her Be-all here.  As in: ♪♫♬ Be All You Can Be - in Vision Forum ♪♫♬

[JermajestyDuggar]

I've always pronounced it like Jessica Beall's last name. I don't think I can start pronouncing it like Bell. 

[Briefly]

On 10/31/2017 at 2:17 PM, Hufflepuffpride said:

Oh man, I am going to have to watch these after work! 

If you do not hear from me in 12 hours, send help.

I just finished this book in the last couple of days.  I got it at the local library and it's from a few years ago, but it has a great deal about Phillips and VF:  Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement, by Kathryn Joyce.