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Denonner

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Hi @Denonner. Thankyou so much for talking to us with such good grace - I know I would have very mixed feelings about FJ if I were you.

Do you feel strange that your childhood was publicised the way it was, and used to promote ideals you no longer believe in?

You may not want to answer this, but have any of your siblings pushed back as your parents have (seemingly) become more liberal/less legalistic? Are any super conservative and invested in the Christian Patriarchy they grew up with?

Also, I'm so glad your little brother is ok - that must have been a terrifying time for you all.

Oh, and congratulations on the baby!

Im not trying to be a bitch, but I'm remembering a post you wrote soon after marriage denouncing women who have sex outside of marriage. Is it uncomfortable knowing that many around you still hold those sorts of views?

Edited by lilith
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I have a question. It may be too personal, though.  Do you feel your mother and father are happier now than when Perry was working for VF?

 

I really hope so, especially for your mother.  Their Amazon business seems more lucrative, anyhow.

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Thank you @Denonner.  I don't know of you family, only a little of the Tool.  Regardless, I appreciate you wanting to voice yourself and humanizing the people discussed here.  You are a strong woman and I wish you the best.  I'm really happy you are free to think for yourself and discover you are not strange for not liking the fundie lifestyle completely.   Here's to women everywhere being themselves as we should be.  Patriarchy sucks.

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2 hours ago, Denonner said:

eeewwww lol 

guys, I used to have the biggest crush on the bowman kid. Thanks for ruining it forever.

:pb_lol:  Sorry if I grossed you out, @Denonner! Tool-O-Ween resulted in some pretty creative LOLDougs - this was one of the most epic.

- Thanks for your answer about the Botkins. 

- The VF caste system/"royalty" you refer to just pisses me off. Then, and now. Karma's a bitch, and she will catch up with Dougie one day.

- "Turns out, the guys I thought were buttholes, actually are buttholes. I'm not crazy, whaddya know." This statement is worthy of fine embroidery on a very fancy pillow.

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My question: do you like reading about any of the other people (unrelated to Vision Forum) that we discuss here? Which ones, and why? Thanks so much for answering our questions.

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13 minutes ago, StacyW said:

My question: do you like reading about any of the other people (unrelated to Vision Forum) that we discuss here? Which ones, and why? Thanks so much for answering our questions.

Oh that's a great question. Really curious to read the answer.

@Denonner, how do you expect your family to respond to your participation here? Especially Lydia, who has been vocal about her dislike of FJ? 

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Deanna,

Your experience of growing up and finding out that you were not rebellious, but actually quite reasonable--that experience is quite common. It's not just children of fundamentalist Christians. In lots of secular homes with abuse, kids grow up with quite damaging beliefs about themselves, only to grow up and find out that the rest of the world thinks they're fine.

I understand you don't want to criticize your family. Within those constraints, could you tell us something about your relationship with your parents and sisters now? Are some of them able to accept your choices? Will you be invited to Thanksgiving? Are you able to see your younger siblings? 

How well is your family doing with its Amazon business? Your parents seem delighted with it, so I'm thinking things are going well. Is their standard of living different now than when you were little? 

As a child, did you enjoy having so many younger brothers and sisters? Were you thrilled each time your mom had another baby, or did it  mean more work for you? Did you and your sisters ever feel that your workload was excessive for a child or was it just all fun and games working together? Did you feel that boys were treated specially or valued more in your household (I kinda get that feeling, no offense).

Thanks.

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@Denonner, a thousand million thanks for offering stories. I love listening to them!

Any observations/opinions on Jordan Niednagel & Melissa? On his father the Brain Not Doctor? On his FIL the tall skinny guy? 

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6 minutes ago, Hisey said:

 

Did you feel that boys were treated specially or valued more in your household (I kinda get that feeling, no offense).

Thanks.

In the Coghlans defence here, they did have a LOT of girls before they got their little boys at the end. And the boys are the "babies" and born in more prosperous times. So even without the patriarchy aspect I can see why the boys were very welcome and doted upon - my whole family was thrilled when I had a little girl after my middle two kids (and my sisters two youngest kids) were all boys.

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2 hours ago, Hisey said:

Deanna,

Your experience of growing up and finding out that you were not rebellious, but actually quite reasonable--that experience is quite common. It's not just children of fundamentalist Christians. In lots of secular homes with abuse, kids grow up with quite damaging beliefs about themselves, only to grow up and find out that the rest of the world thinks they're fine.

I understand you don't want to criticize your family. Within those constraints, could you tell us something about your relationship with your parents and sisters now? Are some of them able to accept your choices? Will you be invited to Thanksgiving? Are you able to see your younger siblings? 

How well is your family doing with its Amazon business? Your parents seem delighted with it, so I'm thinking things are going well. Is their standard of living different now than when you were little? 

As a child, did you enjoy having so many younger brothers and sisters? Were you thrilled each time your mom had another baby, or did it  mean more work for you? Did you and your sisters ever feel that your workload was excessive for a child or was it just all fun and games working together? Did you feel that boys were treated specially or valued more in your household (I kinda get that feeling, no offense).

Thanks.

Rereading this, it sounds like I am saying that there was abuse in the Coghlan family. That was not what I was trying to say at all! I simply meant that in secular, but dysfunctional families, a dynamic exists that similar to what you describe. Sorry.

2 hours ago, lilith said:

In the Coghlans defence here, they did have a LOT of girls before they got their little boys at the end. And the boys are the "babies" and born in more prosperous times. So even without the patriarchy aspect I can see why the boys were very welcome and doted upon - my whole family was thrilled when I had a little girl after my middle two kids (and my sisters two youngest kids) were all boys.

Yeah, I know, I did think of that. But I still think there are an awful lot of pictures and cute stories about the boys. Maybe it is because they are little. . . 

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5 hours ago, lilith said:

In the Coghlans defence here, they did have a LOT of girls before they got their little boys at the end. And the boys are the "babies" and born in more prosperous times. So even without the patriarchy aspect I can see why the boys were very welcome and doted upon - my whole family was thrilled when I had a little girl after my middle two kids (and my sisters two youngest kids) were all boys.

^ this. The boys are our babies, there was never really an issue with gender preference.

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5 hours ago, lilith said:

Oh that's a great question. Really curious to read the answer.

@Denonner, how do you expect your family to respond to your participation here? Especially Lydia, who has been vocal about her dislike of FJ? 

Who knows. They might get mad, or since I'm being discreet about family details they might not care. Lydia was trolling y'all though lol. She was really irritated at all the people telling her she was too young to have kids and she knew y'all would take the bait and argue with her about it.

6 hours ago, StacyW said:

My question: do you like reading about any of the other people (unrelated to Vision Forum) that we discuss here? Which ones, and why? Thanks so much for answering our questions.

Sorry, not really. I only care about the things I care about lol. 

I do follow some of the things about doug wilson on here, mostly because it makes me happy that someone outside of his church circles knows how shitty he's been at handling sex abuse and how harmful his teachings on women have become.

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9 hours ago, Denonner said:

And this was before any of us had smartphones, so a lot of the time we were reading over each other's shoulders

Were your parents aware that you read FJ or was it something you did in secret? 

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11 hours ago, Marian the Librarian said:

Wow - we're approaching the fourth anniversary of Tool-O-Ween. It hardly seems possible; time flies when you're having fun. In honor of same, here's one of my favorite LOL Dougs. Enjoy this blast from the past...

Screen Shot 2017-10-24 at 5.17.00 PM.png

Great shot. Send it to Flo!

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11 hours ago, nausicaa said:

What was your take on the Phillips kids who are close to your age?

Were they elitist? Entitled? Did they have a good education and work ethic? How do you think they'll fare now that VF has fallen?

How do you think the Bradrick divorce has affected the community? Are people sympathetic with Kelly?

I also wondered about your thoughts on the Phillips' kids. Specifically if you thought any might break away? Dont name names if you don't want to as it might jinx the chances of escape!!

Do you know anything about the remaining Phillips in San Antonio?  How they live?  Who lives there?  

And I also wondered if you had any inkling about Peter Bradrick and a "double life"--whatever that means. 

Finally--Lourdes. We're you surprised about that episode?  Was her marriage to Nolan also surprising to the "flock?"

Thanks for stopping by. 

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2 hours ago, Denonner said:

Who knows. They might get mad, or since I'm being discreet about family details they might not care. Lydia was trolling y'all though lol. She was really irritated at all the people telling her she was too young to have kids and she knew y'all would take the bait and argue with her about it.

Sorry, not really. I only care about the things I care about lol. 

I do follow some of the things about doug wilson on here, mostly because it makes me happy that someone outside of his church circles knows how shitty he's been at handling sex abuse and how harmful his teachings on women have become.

Thanks for your response - I thought I might miss out on interacting with you cause of time zones (I'm in Australia). If my toddler stays settled and partner stays engrossed in his computer game I'll stay online for a while. I've always been interested in your family - the combination of legalism/VF/you mum's openness on her blog/your fathers libertarian politics/Calvinism/the fact that your family is WAY more well read than most of the families we follow..... all of it grabs my interest in a way the Duggars never will. Though I'd be interested to know what your family thought of the Duggars. Did you run into them at VF events? I've always thought that they must be considered a bit gauche and working class by Doug Phillips et al, even though it was probably politic to include them and their vast fan base in the cause/on the mailing list.

One more thing (this will probably be auto merged with my last post) - do you think the Phillips kids are having trouble finding marriage partners cause of their father's toolishness? I'm surprised none are married yet.

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So how about the Phillips Girls Dolls? Were there lots of them in the warehouse? Any background conversations about those lovelies???

 

And how about all the cosplay? Not really typical or to necessarily be expected just because someone is fundie? Was that something that people started to "take on" once they were "in" or did people mock it? Could/did people refuse to play?

Did the Phillips have pool parties at their free house?

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@Denonner

I know this is going to be a weird question.....

It's always stuck in my mind that you found Interview With The Vampire on your parents bookshelf. It's such a non fundie title - apart from all the general worldliness and sex, its incredibly homoerotic. And the Christian themes are heavily Roman Catholic.

So, as one fan to another, have you read  the latest book about Prince Lestat and the Realms of Atlantis? What do you think of Anne Rice messing with the mythology she has built up for so long? And what are your expectations of the televisation of The Vampire Chronicles that Anne Rice is writing with her son? I'm cautiously optimistic - she does like creating complex worlds then taking a dramatic turn away from them (Realms of Atlantis, Taltos). Anyway, that's a lighter, non personal question that I wanted to ask you. The image of the sheltered homeschooled fundamentalist girl discovering The Vampire Chronicles has always stuck with me, maybe cause I discovered and loved them in my own adolescence as a very unsheltered hippie child.

Edited by lilith
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48 minutes ago, lilith said:

@Denonner

I know this is going to be a weird question.....

It's always stuck in my mind that you found Interview With The Vampire on your parents bookshelf. It's such a non fundie title - apart from all the general worldliness and sex, its incredibly homoerotic. And the Christian themes are heavily Roman Catholic.

So, as one fan to another, have you read  the latest book about Prince Lestat and the Realms of Atlantis? What do you think of Anne Rice messing with the mythology she has built up for so long? And what are your expectations of the televisation of The Vampire Chronicles that Anne Rice is writing with her son? I'm cautiously optimistic - she does like creating complex worlds then taking a dramatic turn away from them (Realms of Atlantis, Taltos). Anyway, that's a lighter, non personal question that I wanted to ask you. The image of the sheltered homeschooled fundamentalist girl discovering The Vampire Chronicles has always stuck with me, maybe cause I discovered and loved them in my own adolescence as a very unsheltered hippie child.

I haven't read the new one yet, but I love the vampire chronicles and the mayfair witch chronicles. And I'm super excited to see what happens with the show. 

I wasn't a fan of Memnoch the Devil or the Vampire Armand, but I love the way Anne Rice portrayed the love of God and how she portrays salvation through faith for several of her characters. 

As far as finding the book lol. It was Dad's book and I had been allowed to watch the movie since I was a toddler, so despite the boring cover, I already knew I liked it. It was one of my favorites. I called it The Blood Man Movie. 

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12 hours ago, lilith said:

Since you say everyone at VF knew about/read FJ, was this the inside joke we always suspected?

 

IMG_5042.PNG

Lol I don't know. I always saw the design guys as being a bit daft, and they sent out some silly looking banners and CD album art over the years.  

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12 hours ago, lilith said:

Hi @Denonner. Thankyou so much for talking to us with such good grace - I know I would have very mixed feelings about FJ if I were you.

Do you feel strange that your childhood was publicised the way it was, and used to promote ideals you no longer believe in?

You may not want to answer this, but have any of your siblings pushed back as your parents have (seemingly) become more liberal/less legalistic? Are any super conservative and invested in the Christian Patriarchy they grew 

Im not trying to be a bitch, but I'm remembering a post you wrote soon after marriage denouncing women who have sex outside of marriage. Is it uncomfortable knowing that many around you still hold those sorts of views?

I remember the post you're talking about lol. I was trolling you guys. I was bored and I wanted to make all of you mad. You took the post exactly how I wanted you to and I had a good laugh about it. 

I don't go out of my way to worry about other people's convictions, I believe that being faithful is the crucial part of any relationship, but I try to focus on what I have going on, because a lot of my own misery over the years was caused by busybodies picking on me when I needed a friend. I give advice if asked, but I don't stress when people have more stringent convictions than I do. Bless their hearts, I say. 

2 hours ago, Quinquagenarian said:

So how about the Phillips Girls Dolls? Were there lots of them in the warehouse? Any background conversations about those lovelies???

 

And how about all the cosplay? Not really typical or to necessarily be expected just because someone is fundie? Was that something that people started to "take on" once they were "in" or did people mock it? Could/did people refuse to play?

Did the Phillips have pool parties at their free house?

We always thought that anyone who would pay full price for one of those dolls was a sucker. Which is why we grabbed up all of the "damaged" dolls and sold them ourselves. It was a great source of pocket money. There were hundreds, sometimes thousands of dolls in the warehouse when it was fully stocked. 

The cosplay was fun. Seriously, the costumes were so extravagant, and my dad got so excited about being Oliver Cromwell. It was optional, but in a culture where you don't get to dress up on Halloween, who wants to skip the costume party?

And I never heard of a pool party. I heard rumors that the interns got to play water polo in that pool but it was never open for sharing and a lot of the time when I saw it it was green and slimy. 

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3 hours ago, Quinquagenarian said:

I also wondered about your thoughts on the Phillips' kids. Specifically if you thought any might break away? Dont name names if you don't want to as it might jinx the chances of escape!!

Do you know anything about the remaining Phillips in San Antonio?  How they live?  Who lives there?  

And I also wondered if you had any inkling about Peter Bradrick and a "double life"--whatever that means. 

Finally--Lourdes. We're you surprised about that episode?  Was her marriage to Nolan also surprising to the "flock?"

Thanks for stopping by. 

I don't know what the Phillips kids are up to. I don't keep in touch with any of them.

I don't know what to say about Peter. He was the first intern I ever made friends with, i was like 10. I adored him, and I loved helping Kelly out when their second baby was born. I thought he was arrogant, and sometimes overly sanctimonious, but so were pretty much all of the men around me so it never set off any warning bells. Its just fucking heartbreaking, the whole mess he's made. 

And for Lourdes, she deserved better. She deserved so much better than what she got. I think she's doing well now, and that makes me really happy for her. I hope Doug answers for that crime over and over and over. 

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The Witch series is my absolute fav!  Blackwood Farm and Blood Canticle are great too!  Best of both worlds!!  I agree on Memnoch, it was just too much, imo.  Same with Armand.  I just love Anne Rice.  She definitely helped me sort out some religious stuff.  

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It makes me happy that you are finding your own way in this world and doing what you think is best for yourself. I'm always interested in what makes people change and leave the lifestyle and beliefs that they are raised with. Was the changes that you made leaving that lifestyle a sudden decision or something that came about gradually?

Were Doug and the others in the higher up positions people that you were suppose to look up to an copy and was there the idea that you may be able to get into their higher position at some point? Or was it something like there are defined classes and their lifestyle was not for people "like you"?

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