Jinger 32: Light into the Darkness According to Jeremy

[Snowless]

On 10/19/2017 at 11:14 PM, Fjrocks said:

    I promise you, Jeremy, one day someone very close to you will be gay and it will change everything.

Sadly, that usually seems to be the catalyst for uber-conservative people to even begin to care about LGBT people.  Otherwise, they just don’t care or they demonize these people.  Part of the reason why I’m such a huge supporter of LGBT rights is because I’ve known a lot of people in the community and I love each and every single one of those people I’ve met like family.  When you befriend somebody in the community, you have a personal investment with that community.  One of my best friends in the world is a bisexual woman (who happens to be married to a bisexual man).  If she found herself wanting to spend her life with a woman, I’d be just as thrilled for her as I was to hear that she was married to a man.  She’s someone who is like family to me; I love her like a sister (I have no biological sisters, but I do have a sister-in-law).

If he wanted to truly emulate Christ, Jeremy would embrace “love your brother” and treat these people with the respect and dignity they deserve.  It seems for every step forward he’s brought Jinger since they married, Jeremy finds a way to take two steps back.

And to @Fjrocks, I am truly saddened and sorry about your loved one.  Suicide amongst people in the LGBT community should be another motivator as to why we should care about their rights as Americans and as human beings.  My best friend is bipolar (actually, she had the nervous breakdown that led to her diagnosis about two weeks after she came out to me), and I don’t know if her questioning her sexuality had a hand in her mental illness, but the fact that people in the community are dealing with depression at higher rates and attempting or committing suicide at higher rates should be a red flag for all of us.

[laikawolf]

22 minutes ago, Snowless said:

Sadly, that usually seems to be the catalyst for uber-conservative people to even begin to care about LGBT people.  Otherwise, they just don’t care or they demonize these people.  

This is how it happened for my parents. They had a 1 Man + 1 Woman = Marriage sign in the yard until my little brother came out of the closet. 2 weeks later my mother was suggesting that he move in with his boyfriend! I was like, "Mom, you don't even want me to live with my boyfriend." Her response? "They could help each other with homework!" 

That being said, the Duggars already have an LGBTQ+ relative (Michelle's sister) and that hasn't seemed to soften them up. 

[Jinder Roles]

I don't think it's for lack of interaction. We all saw Jody (the hair dresser) who was presented as a more feminine/Fay man (we don't actually know his sexual orientation). They were nice to him but Kendra's dad still preaches homophobic vitriol.

Jeremy is deeply into theology. His sermons are expository, he constantly gets into very specific theological theories. Out of all the Duggar and Duggar-related ilk, his posts relate the least back to larger society (unless it has to do with the Church body)

No way interaction with gay people will change his mind. He's extremely invested and believes it's the correct and only way. To him, accepting LGBTQ people and rights is sinful (aka a form of hate). I'd best most of them are like that.

[cascarones]

When I lived in Brooklyn, we often heard one of our neighbors yelling "You better get his ass to church before" various forms of being rotten to the core. Asking what church you go to was normal in Texas, a lot of people would just say their parent's parish if they didn't actively go to church or temple. West Coast nobody has asked me, but it's an apartment. I wear a dove of peace and for the most part, people just think it's part of my more hippie style. I had a cute little dove and got peace sticker on my brightly colored VW bug and was always amused when people would chuckle or take a photo with it.

The first time I met Jeremy he asked where I went to church, maybe a bit personal on the questions of why I was fasting, but I get the curiosity. He at least understood fasting was a thing and I was not just on a crazy diet.  He earns no points for that and I've no clue if his version of Christianity involves fasts.  It's still so weird to see his deeper and hateful beliefs, so I'm hoping he's as bad at learning Spanish as Derick and Jill, to limit his impact.  

[NakedKnees]

20 hours ago, laikawolf said:

That being said, the Duggars already have an LGBTQ+ relative (Michelle's sister) and that hasn't seemed to soften them up. 

 

20 hours ago, Jinder Roles said:

I don't think it's for lack of interaction. We all saw Jody (the hair dresser) who was presented as a more feminine/Fay man (we don't actually know his sexual orientation). They were nice to him but Kendra's dad still preaches homophobic vitriol.

I gotta agree with these. I'm from a so-called "liberal bubble" in the California, and I can't emphasize enough how normal being gay was there. Everyone knew gay people, gay people were open, and every year from the time we were about 12, another few kids would come out. None of this stopped homophobia from existing, or "protect marriage" signs and protests from popping up.

As far as the Duggars go, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the howlers or lost girls grow up to be more accepting of LGBTIQ+ people. I frankly doubt they've had the attention from their parents to be brainwashed about it as much as the older kids, and the public discourse surround LGBTIQ+ rights is different than what it was 15 years ago.

But for the older kids, I'm sure they've interacted with gay people regularly and are fairly set in their ways. I do expect some will change later in life, after the world has continued to change in favor of accepting gay people over the course of decades, just like how some white Christians were about race in the 70s. However, short of drastic "breaking free" actually happening, I can't see a single one of the Duggars being on the front lines for such a change. It'll probably be begrudging, and probably a make-or-break issue for being able to maintain a congregation (which I'd assume is important when your only life calling is "ministry").

[PennySycamore]

I hope you're right, @NakedKnees!  I do hope you're right about the younger Duggar kids.

[Gillyweed]

I remember reading on this forum once that one of the crew members from 19 Kids and Counting was gay, and when Michelle found out about it, TLC moved him to another show. So they've definitely interacted with LGBTQ people. I'd like to think that one of the next generation will be accepting of their child if they came out. When my brother came out as gay, my devout catholic grandmother cried and was really upset, but now he's her favorite grandchild. 

I hope they'd realize that if a family member identifies as LGBTQ, it doesn't mean they're not Christian. My 2nd cousin used to be a Catholic Priest. He's since changed denominations so he could date his boyfriend, but he still preaches the bible.

[VelociRapture]

3 hours ago, Gillyweed said:

I remember reading on this forum once that one of the crew members from 19 Kids and Counting was gay, and when Michelle found out about it, TLC moved him to another show. So they've definitely interacted with LGBTQ people. I'd like to think that one of the next generation will be accepting of their child if they came out. When my brother came out as gay, my devout catholic grandmother cried and was really upset, but now he's her favorite grandchild. 

I hope they'd realize that if a family member identifies as LGBTQ, it doesn't mean they're not Christian. My 2nd cousin used to be a Catholic Priest. He's since changed denominations so he could date his boyfriend, but he still preaches the bible.

As another poster already mentioned, there is a LGBTQ family member. One of Mochelle’s sisters is a Lesbian. It hasn’t stopped any of them from being homophobic or transphobic. 

[Furslippers15]

Any "religion" that discriminates against LBGTQ is a blatant form of racism. Beware of any "religion" that speaks of hate as part of it's doctrine and yet proclaims to be Christian.

[FeministFunPolice]

3 hours ago, Furslippers15 said:

Any "religion" that discriminates against LBGTQ is a blatant form of racism. Beware of any "religion" that speaks of hate as part of it's doctrine and yet proclaims to be Christian.

Would you be able to explain the connection between homophobia and racism?

[singsingsing]

It's not blatant racism, it's blatant homophobia. Of course, more often than not blatant homophobia and blatant racism go hand in hand.

[QuiverDance]

On 10/19/2017 at 5:55 PM, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

My sister just moved to TN and when her husband moved in (she was still in IA waiting for their son to finish his last week of school) their next door neighbor came over introduced herself and was talking to him and, of course she asked "where do you go to church?" My BIL was taken aback, and looked at her and said "I don't" she start to invite them to their church and he stopped her and said "I'm an agnostic", hoping that would scare her off, and it did. LOL! My sister said the neighbors have never ONCE said hi to them talked or anything. But the rest of the neighbors are fine. 

This is why I hate living in TN! 

[awkwardblackchick]

Theres a live video on Jeremy's Facebook page, they're talking about S.W.A.N.

 WAS live, video still on page though.

[SamiKatz]

Jeremy is reading (or has read) a book about Christopher Hitchens.  Perhaps a shared dislike for Mother Theresa?

(Not gonna lie - adding this to my reading list).

 

[llg1234]

That book is written by an evangelical author who claims that Hitchens converted to Christianity towards the end of his life. Several people close to him have denounced the book.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/larry-tauntons-the-faith-of-christopher-hitchens-a-betrayal-to-reader-and-subject/486164/

[nickelodeon]

I suspect Jeremy is the kind of dude who doesn't read non-religious texts, but reads a lot of Christian critiques of non-religious texts, so that he can pretend to be an expert on the subject without ever having to engage with what the author is actually saying. (Like Geoff Botkin, but...uh...less.)

[fluffernutter]

I live in a conservative area. Loads of churches, one on every corner. People here ask all time time what church we go to. I just say we are Unitarian, and I kid you not no one has asked what that even means. They hear "church" and think oh what a good christian, i can be nice to her! If only they knew I went to a church full of HEATHENS!! 

[Antipatriarch]

That Larry Taunton book is a travesty! 

If you want a "glimpse into the life and mind" of Hitchens, then read what he actually wrote, or watch videos of his speeches/debates and hear what he actually said! Don't read the second-hand writing of someone trying to rewrite Hitchens' life to better match the author's worldview, after the subject has died and can't reply. (And believe me, his reply would have been a doozy.)

[Furslippers15]

S Snowflake: the reason I liken homophobia to racism is that I personally view them as systemically being grounded in hate. In making such a statement, I hope that I did not, or do not offend anyone. If religious groups only want members money, or view mental illness as a character fault. That living in poverty is From being lazy. Though not related to one's ethnicity.All of these ideologies are rooted in hate,therefore I view them, as forms of racism. Oh ya, and where there is hate, ignorance is it's handmaiden. IMHO

[Knight of Ni]

I’m not surprised that people claimed that Christopher Hitchens converted to Christianity. They say that Darwin converted to Christianity and renounced his theory of evolution on his death bed. I don’t even know what evidence they base that claim on. They probably just believe that the majority of the people who are offended by these beliefs would not bother to fact check the claims

[singsingsing]

I don't know why these people do that. I want to be charitable and assume that they're just making themselves feel better, because the alternative (in their minds) is that Darwin, Hitchens, etc. are now burning in hell, and they don't actually want to believe that. But I think it's really to score evangelical brownie points and wield them like a weapon: "Ha! Even the terrible Christopher Hitchens eventually saw the light and became a Christian! Checkmate, atheists."

[Furslippers15]

12 hours ago, singsingsing said:

It's not blatant racism, it's blatant homophobia. Of course, more often than not blatant homophobia and blatant racism go hand in hand.

Hopefully you'll see a message I replied to by another member. To add too my homophobia as racism. The GLBTQ often few themselves as a group. Therefore they can be viewed as being looked at with bigotry which is also found in rasism. I am not the only person that see's this community as being viewed with rasism. 

[singsingsing]

1 minute ago, Furslippers15 said:

Hopefully you'll see a message I replied to by another member. To add too my homophobia as racism. The GLBTQ often few themselves as a group. Therefore they can be viewed as being looked at with bigotry which is also found in rasism. I am not the only person that see's this community as being viewed with rasism. 

I did see it, and I respectfully disagree. Racism and homophobia are both forms of bigotry, but are not one in the same. It's entirely accurate to say that they often exist alongside each other, though!

[Furslippers15]

13 hours ago, singsingsing said:

It's not blatant racism, it's blatant homophobia. Of course, more often than not blatant homophobia and blatant racism go hand in hand.

Hopefully you'll see a message I replied to by another member. To add too my homophobia as racism. The GLBTQ often few themselves as a group. Therefore they can be viewed as being looked at with bigotry which is also found in rasism. I am not the only person that see's this community as being viewed with rasism. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/jessica-joseph/homophobia-and-racism-similar-methodologies-of-dehumanization_b_3459204.html

[nausicaa]

36 minutes ago, Knight of Ni said:

I’m not surprised that people claimed that Christopher Hitchens converted to Christianity. They say that Darwin converted to Christianity and renounced his theory of evolution on his death bed. I don’t even know what evidence they base that claim on. They probably just believe that the majority of the people who are offended by these beliefs would not bother to fact check the claims

Dawkins has stated that if he dies in such a way that he has a "death bed" period, he has requested that an audio device be recording at all times to ensure there is evidence to refute any "death bed conversion" claims. 

Those conversion claims are always such a shitty thing to do to the deceased.