Duggars by the Dozen 31: Dicky Duggars Do Damage

[Palimpsest]

2 minutes ago, KelseyAnn said:

On the topic of rewards, I tried googling but each state is different and each judge is different so I really can't give a concrete answer without worrying its inaccruate. 

Yep.  Also states that allow the jury to decide damages often results in gigantic amounts of money that are turned over on appeal.

[Fluffy14]

 

 

41 minutes ago, KelseyAnn said:

I swear to God, I feel you're being purposely obtuse. Just the fact that you feel they don't 'deserve money' because they appear happy/unaffected is victim blaming. Tell me, Fluffy, did I deserve to have an entire jury call me a liar about being raped because I couldn't tell them the exact goddam hour it happened? Did I deserve to have my school think I was a whore because I didn't report it right away and because the dickslap lived with me? 

Unto your 're-victimize' remark, how DARE you. A victim does NOT revictimize themselves. Only others do that. If anyone is revictimizing these girls/women- its people like you who dismiss/lessen thier hurts because they're famous and seemingly well-adjusted now. Tell me, Fluffy, did I revictimize myself when I spilled my heart out in a college essay? Was I 'attention-seeking?' 

I feel as if you're a troll or just heartless, without an ounce of sympathy. 

It's not so much what we think as what you've shown to be true...

You are taking your personal horrific unfair situation and injecting into a scenario of reality TV of which we only see in part. My judgements about THEM  and in this situation only reflect my opinion about THEM and certainly not you.

I know how courts work , my daughter was told straight to her face that her brain injury , that was documented by the top doctors in our province was fake. All and every medical procedure was fake. And her monetary award reflected that because in her pictures that were seized she smiled so therefore she wasnt brain injured.

In my own life I have been rejected by every single family member and been cast aside as a liar. My court proceedings did not go through because my mother lied and there was not enough corroborated  evidence, despite all of my physical and mental evidence. 

I have been hunted down, watched,  physically, and mentally threatened  by my abusers because I talked and went to therapy.

No I am not an obtuse , heartless bitch. And not that you will accept or believe that my heart does go out to you and I can feel an immense amount of empathy for you because I too have experienced injustice.

I can separate what has been done to me and look at the TV and based on the history of unethical money history and what they have allowed us to see , and hear what they have to say , and form an opinion about THEM based on that.

Does that opinion mean I am an asshole to others In their own history of personal hell?  No. Others may think differently about that and it is certainly been made clear.

I am and is known as being the biggest sap around when it comes to abused people or animals.  Except when it comes to this particular family. I don't know how more clear I can state that fact. I don't like them,  I don't like that they go on TV and exploit themselves. I don't like that the ADULT WOMEN exploit themselves in spite of being molested and in spite of massive worldwide ridicule . I don't like that they don't protect themselves or their children from future harm from the public , and for all the fury in he'll why they proceed to continuously put their babies and young children in harms way from their brother Josh. My only surmise from that is they are stupid, or maybe they say the truth and it isn't as bad as what we all think.

 

I don't know how clearer I can be that it is not about myself my own injustices against me or anyone else's injustice against them on this forum.

It's only about The Fucking Duggar family.

[Palimpsest]

39 minutes ago, Greendoor said:

Thank you for your gracious comment.

I didn't call you an asshole, but your "question,"  or rather your series of disingenuous, rhetorical, and stupid questions, have now earned you that title in my book.

FFS, you joined FJ in 2015.  And claim to be interested in the Duggars.  It rather boggles the mind that you missed all the discussion about the SOL on Josh Duggar's crimes.  

I took a quick look back on your older posts.  Welcome to my shit list.  It is reserved for the unnecessarily provocative, the pig-ignorant, and the possible trolls.  You can earn your way off it by good behavior though.  I am quite forgiving.

 

[Jess]

My thoughts there are lots of different types of damages awarded. The jury will decided how damaged they were by the invasion of privacy. How much is the world knowing your a sexual assault survivor when you didn't consent to them knowing worth? If it wasn't the Duggars would all you guys saying it's worth nothing still think that? 

By the time it goes to trial, if it does, there will have been more motions and only a couple factual questions for the jury to answer. They will be given a verdict sheet to fill out based on those questions. Sorry, I couldn't find one for invasion of privacy in Arkansas. Jury sheets are behind paywalls this was the best i could do. Jury sheets are basically like this. https://www.nysba.org/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=22147

I would be shocked if they claim lost wages. The show was cancelled because of Josh being a perpetrator not because they were victims. It wouldn't be a good claim, it would be expensive to make, and it would open them up to a lot of discovery they wouldn't like.

Also, as pointed out above large awards are often overturned on appeal and even more often settled for much less while the appeal is pending. On most causes of action in most places there is good appeallate law that lets you know ahead of time what the value range is.  This isn't one of those cases since there isn't great Arkansas case law. 

 

[KelseyAnn]

9 minutes ago, Fluffy14 said:

 

 

You are taking your personal horrific unfair situation and injecting into a scenario of reality TV of which we only see in part. My judgements about THEM  and in this situation only reflect my opinion about THEM and certainly not you.

I don't know how clearer I can be that it is not about myself my own injustices against me or anyone else's injustice against them on this forum.

It's only about The Fucking Duggar family.

1

To address your statement that, "I'm using my personal situation and injecting it into a reality TV family,' I have this to say- That is what YOU were doing. 

To address your statement that, 'It's only about the FUCKING Duggar Family,' NO, its not! When you make a shitty comment that dismisses victims of abuse you tell all victims of abuse that their traumas are not important. If you minimize one person's suffering, you minimize them all. 

Just now, Jess said:

My thoughts there are lots of different types of damages awarded. The jury will decided how damaged they were by the invasion of privacy. How much is the world knowing your a sexual assault survivor when you didn't consent to them knowing worth? If it wasn't the Duggars would all you guys saying it's worth nothing still think that? 

 

 

3

While we cannot put a price on the suffering, I think the amount should at least be enough to 'hurt' or 'inconvenience' the culprits. It shouldn't just be a fine of like 100 dollars or something akin to a parking ticket. It should MEAN something. But the law isn't based on feelings and I have no idea what to hope for. 

[choralcrusader8613]

11 minutes ago, Fluffy14 said:

I don't like that the ADULT WOMEN exploit themselves in spite of being molested and in spite of massive worldwide ridicule

How? How are they doing this? Being on TV isn't exploiting themselves. They have a right to talk or not talk about their stuff as it suits them. This is part of the reason we even had the freaking rule about not discussing the Duggar girls' victim status before they all made their status public (the other being that we don't speculate on victims of abuse in general because that's disgusting).

I'm sorry that they don't work through the trauma they experienced like you would expect them to, but, as the saying goes, "The same water that hardens the egg softens the potato." Nobody is going to respond to even the same experience in exactly the same way, let alone different experiences.

[KelseyAnn]

Yeah, how DARE the Duggar girls aren't locking themselves in their closet crying themselves to sleep every night. How DARE they go about their daily life without falling to pieces. Don't they know that we as their audiences are offending by the fact that they aren't falling apart? 

That's how stupid you sound, Fluffy. 

[Fluffy14]

50 minutes ago, KelseyAnn said:

To address your statement that, "I'm using my personal situation and injecting it into a reality TV family,' I have this to say- That is what YOU were doing. 

To address your statement that, 'It's only about the FUCKING Duggar Family,' NO, its not! When you make a shitty comment that dismisses victims of abuse you tell all victims of abuse that their traumas are not important. If you minimize one person's suffering, you minimize them all. 

Spoiler

Obviously it doesn't matter how much horrific abuse in my own life, which fucking is awful. Let's just say fucking a 2 yr old with any object like beer bottles, pens fireplace pokers, and fucking grown penis's isn't that enough for you?

what about at the age of 8 yrs old having peanut butter smeared on you and having a German Shepherd lick it off for fucking men and their goddam cameras? While they sit around drinking cocktails and beer. What about being tossed into a dirt cold hole after being raped repeatedly by penis and snake heads and dirty old rabbits feet and sticks? 

What about being raped by priests and monks on the hills of a convent while they dump earwigs all over you and the proceed to put you in a coffin in the fucking ground.

What about having your mother and her fucking sorority  sisters poke and prod you and masterbate you while they get off on you after they do their Robert's rules of order, after eating a valentine's cake for my fucking mothers birthday!

you think I don't fucking understand what the fuck if means to be a fucking Victim?   You think I don't know what it is like to have a fucking baby at 12 yrs old by some pervert, who then tries to kill me because if is a girl and not a boy?

You think at 17 yrs old I don't know what it is like to go into labour in a barn while my abusers are yanking at that baby to get it out? You want fucking more I have fucking 16 yrs of fucking being raped, beaten, left outside in holes and boxes and sheds. Being given so much food I barf while being raped and then being made to fucking eat it. Being made to eat shit from my abusers while they rape me. What the fuck do you all want?

 

Fuck everyone on here fuck you all. I can have my fucking opinion about the Goddam fucking Duggars and how much fucking money they want in their fucking lawsuit .

So there you can all fucking sit back and judge me for being a fucking asshole and intersecting my own experiences into the fucking Duggars scenario. Fuck off.

[KelseyAnn]

Yeah, you had a shitty life. That doesn't mean the Duggar's didn't and that their traumas are any less. It isn't a fucking competition. You don't get to be an ass because you had a shitty life, that's not how it works. 

I could be bitter and cruel like my mother but I'm not. I chose to break the cycle. 

A shitty childhood isn't a get out of jail free card. 

[singsingsing]

Just now, KelseyAnn said:

Yeah, you had a shitty life. That doesn't mean the Duggar's didn't and that their traumas are any less. It isn't a fucking competition. 

Or maybe their traumas are lesser, but that still doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to seek legal/financial compensation, and it sure as hell doesn't mean that anyone, no matter how traumatic their own past, has the right to sit back and judge that the abuse they suffered obviously 'wasn't that bad' and that they can't possibly be 'that traumatized' because of the fact that they smile, laugh, put themselves on TV, talk about it, don't talk about it, etc.

[Destiny]

Nor do you GET a pass for saying shitty things because you have had a shitty life.

[JillsFlowerHeadband]

Just now, singsingsing said:

it sure as hell doesn't mean that anyone, no matter how traumatic their own past, has the right to sit back and judge that the abuse they suffered obviously 'wasn't that bad' and that they can't possibly be 'that traumatized' because of the fact that they smile, laugh, put themselves on TV, talk about it, don't talk about it, etc.

EXACTLY.

Some people actually find it helpful to talk to others about what happened to them, some don’t. Again, we criticize fundies who try to force people into one size fits all cookie cutter molds, so it’s damn hypocritical to do the EXACT SAME THING. There is no such thing as the Sexual Abuse/Assault Oppression Olympics and NO ONE gets to be the final arbiter of whose experiences are valid and whose aren’t. 

[KelseyAnn]

5 minutes ago, Destiny said:

Nor do you GET a pass for saying shitty things because you have had a shitty life.

We're all adults on this site and its 2017 and I cannot believe this needs to be said. 

[Fluffy14]

16 minutes ago, KelseyAnn said:

Yeah, you had a shitty life. That doesn't mean the Duggar's didn't and that their traumas are any less. It isn't a fucking competition. You don't get to be an ass because you had a shitty life, that's not how it works. 

I could be bitter and cruel like my mother but I'm not. I chose to break the cycle. 

A shitty childhood isn't a get out of jail free card. 

Go to hell. I have already spent a lifetime there......you can sit there behind your fucking screen and tell me being touched while you were asleep and had to be told about it is the same thing as being raped when you are two years old? Go to fucking hell.  And look who has no compassion now.

[KelseyAnn]

Just now, Fluffy14 said:

Go to hell. I have already spent a lifetime there......you can sit there behind your fucking screen and tell me being touched while you were asleep is the same thing as being raped when you are two years old? Go to fucking hell.  And look who has no compassion now.

The two-year old is the woman/man who feels she has the right to dictate how people grieve/hurt/heal. 

And I'm gonna say something to you because I feel like you need to hear it and maybe nobody cared enough to say it to you- your bitterness/attitude is going to be your downfall. You have a rotten attitude. It needs fixed. 

And you react to correction/criticism like my mother did. With anger and gaslighting and deflection. Like her, you cannot conceive that you possibly said something/did something you should have. It's not 'your' fault. It's always everyone else's. 

Get therapy. Learn to heal. 

 

 

[apandaaries]

@Fluffy14 While I could be wrong, I don't think arguing this point on the forum will bring you peace.  The experiences you describe sound horrific, but FJ isn't the place where you will find healing, especially in this manner.  Stepping away from the computer can be a beautiful, revitalizing thing, as can some good, long term therapy.  Professionals who've dealt with trauma can help far more than arguing on a fundie forum.  

[KelseyAnn]

And nobody is saying being touched while asleep is the same as being raped. Because it isn't. Just like having cancer isn't the same as having diabetes. 

But the thing we've all been trying to tell you is that just because things aren't the same doesn't mean the suffering they caused isn't comparable.  If I scrape my knee and you get a papercut does that mean I can tell you not to cry because my injury hurts more? 

[Fluffy14]

5 minutes ago, KelseyAnn said:

uThe two-year old is the woman/man who feels she has the right to dictate how people grieve/hurt/heal. 

And I'm gonna say something to you because I feel like you need to hear it and maybe nobody cared enough to say it to you- your bitterness/attitude is going to be your downfall. You have a rotten attitude. It needs fixed. 

And you react to correction/criticism like my mother did. With anger and gaslighting and deflection. Like her, you cannot conceive that you possibly said something/did something you should have. It's not 'your' fault. It's always everyone else's. 

Get therapy. Learn to heal. 

 

 

Thanks I appreciate the fucking effort you fucking hypocritical  woman. You  have more compassion for every fucking one else on here except for me. Nice. Why don't you just keep on victim shaming me, belittling me , calling me names....you are more worried about a rich, family on tv..... than a woman who sits in front of you telling you only a tidbit of the fucking shit and you have the gall to call me an asshole and minimize everything I wrote and expressed.  all the while saying you are a champion for victims.  And then kicking me in the ass saying I need more therapy.  Your true colours are showing.

[JillsFlowerHeadband]

1 minute ago, amandaaries said:

Stepping away from the computer can be a beautiful, revitalizing thing, as can some good therapy.

I cannot stress enough how important therapy is for the healing process as well as a good support system. Mr JFH says that he wouldn’t be where he is today without his therapist and the support of his parents, siblings (and me obviously) along with a really good support group. 

[SilverBeach]

People don't get a pass for saying shitty things because they have had a shitty life.

And the Duggar second generation doesn't get a pass for saying and doing shitty things because they had a shitty life in the Gothard cult.

That said, sexual abuse victims, of which I am one, should always control disclosure of what happened to them. 

This thread has gone totally off the rails, and I'm sure is triggering for some. I'll come back later.

[Palimpsest]

OK, folks, I am going there.  Brace yourselves.

My default is always to believe victim's stories.  Because so many are true and disbelieved.  Horrible, unspeakable things do happen.  I know.

There is also a subset of people who lie.  Like rugs.  Especially on the internet and especially to a community of people whose default is to be caring, compassionate, and sympathetic to victims.  Because some of us have been victims and are now survivors.

@Fluffy14 made an atrocious post.  And then a few more.  Now suddenly they are the victim of terrible abuse and we should all roll over and forgive those atrocious posts.

Ruth and Burris are probably cheering this one on.

I'm sorry.  I am not buying it this time.

If I am wrong, and it is a possibility, @Fluffy14 get more therapy.  You do need more healing before you engage in this sort of internet debate.  You are making survivors look bad.

[Fluffy14]

6 minutes ago, amandaaries said:

@Fluffy14 While I could be wrong, I don't think arguing this point on the forum will bring you peace.  The experiences you describe sound horrific, but FJ isn't the place where you will find healing, especially in this manner.  Stepping away from the computer can be a beautiful, revitalizing thing, as can some good therapy.  

Just like I thought, anyone who really expresses themselves intimately gets told to go away....it's like I said before in an earlier thread, nobody wants to hear it. Thanks for the sentiment.

[KelseyAnn]

5 minutes ago, Fluffy14 said:

Thanks I appreciate the fucking effort you fucking hypocritical  woman. You  have more compassion for every fucking one else on here except for me. Nice. Why don't you just keep on victim shaming me, belittling me , calling me names....you are more worried about a rich, family on tv..... than a woman who sits in front of you telling you only a tidbit of the fucking shit and you have the gall to call me an asshole and minimize everything I wrote and expressed.  all the while saying you are a champion for victims.  And then kicking me in the ass saying I need more therapy.  Your true colours are showing.

4

Believe it or not, I do have compassion for you. You're obviously hurting and lashing out at people. What I don't have compassion for is a victim-blamer- which you are. What I don't have compassion for is someone who belittles me and has said things that remind me of my own childhood of abuse. And I never called you an asshole, but I'll call you one now. And yes, I encourage therapy. I've been in for a a year and a half now am starting to heal. I encourage everyone to have therapy. The world would bea better palce if they did. 

And if my true colors are that of a woman who doesn't stand by while others belittle victims, than so be it. I'll wear that color like a badge of honor. 

In short, I hope you heal, get therapy, and fuck you. In that order. 

[Fluffy14]

See this is exactly why I don't tell people my shit. It is so bad nobody believes you and tells you to your face  or here in written form you are a liar. This is exactly why the reason people like me never come forward and have to keep silent.   It is exactly what every one on here has posted about being all so mercy mercy for the victim and then you have one sitting here and you tell her she is lying, she's the problem, she's the mean girl. 

[KelseyAnn]

3 minutes ago, Fluffy14 said:

Just like I thought, anyone who really expresses themselves intimately gets told to go away....it's like I said before in an earlier thread, nobody wants to hear it. Thanks for the sentiment.

What nobody wants to hear is victim-blaming.