Zach and Whitney Bates - part 4

[KnittingOwl]

On 10/27/2017 at 5:58 AM, WhoompThereItIs said:

Or the despicable me fart blaster. Granted I do want one for myself, and have gifted it to my 37 yo brother. Yes, our sense of humor is that of a 10 yo boy 

I want to buy one for my 22 year old brother too! Totally get it. 

[VineHeart137]

Kaci Lynn got her first haircut courtesy of her Aunt Josie.

 

[jqlgoblue]

Maybe, I'm just overly sensitive b/c starting in high school and then college (at public and then progressive state University!) I started getting razzed b/c I was going to let other people raise my future potential children b/c the guys I went on dates with wanted their future wives to stay at home... but then why did I go to college and work hard for an engineering degree??  So, I actually think it is rude to ask anyone if their kids are in daycare. It smacks of believing daycare is evil, and people aren't raising their kids, and here I go being progressive... 

On top of that, I see my stay at home friends putting their kids in school a large part of the time because it is better for the kids (make friends, have fun, learn to be with other adults). So, my friends have loss of income plus they spend crazy amounts of money so their kids can go to school, and then their kids aren't actually even in their home most of the day. So, they stay at home and by the daycare logic, someone else is still raising their children!

As for Whitney's realtor job, I might have missed some of the details upthread that changes what I am going to say, but I imagine that she would mostly be helping other fundies in the area. With the show, it will be easy for her to get clients, but even then it can't be a full (or even half) book of business. It's a nice extra thing for her to do though, and I like that she is being 'allowed' to do it. I'd also totally buy that they'd be flexible to her having kids and the times she could take them.

[lilith]

I agree, Whitney’s name and profile has quite a bit of value to a business like a real estate agent, not just among fundie but among young conservative couples in general. I’m sure her employers are very happy to allow her flexibility, especially if they’re paying her mainly or entirely on a commission basis.

[Marly]

Zach and Withney posted a new picture of Kaci Lynn on instagram, and I find her so incredibly cute in this picture! 
 

[Melissa1977]

On 12/11/2017 at 8:55 PM, jqlgoblue said:

Maybe, I'm just overly sensitive b/c starting in high school and then college (at public and then progressive state University!) I started getting razzed b/c I was going to let other people raise my future potential children b/c the guys I went on dates with wanted their future wives to stay at home... but then why did I go to college and work hard for an engineering degree??  So, I actually think it is rude to ask anyone if their kids are in daycare. It smacks of believing daycare is evil, and people aren't raising their kids, and here I go being progressive... 

On top of that, I see my stay at home friends putting their kids in school a large part of the time because it is better for the kids (make friends, have fun, learn to be with other adults). So, my friends have loss of income plus they spend crazy amounts of money so their kids can go to school, and then their kids aren't actually even in their home most of the day. So, they stay at home and by the daycare logic, someone else is still raising their children!

I don't think people asking about daycare are critizising daycare centers themselves. The point here is that Bates preach that mothers cannot work, they have to homeschool etc, while both Whitney and Erin are having jobs that need some kind of babysitting for their kids. If they hadn't a bunch of aunts, they should forget working or actually use a daycare center. So they should stop telling people that being SAHM is the right option because they are not.

[veron1que]

1 hour ago, Melissa1977 said:

I don't think people asking about daycare are critizising daycare centers themselves. The point here is that Bates preach that mothers cannot work, they have to homeschool etc, while both Whitney and Erin are having jobs that need some kind of babysitting for their kids. If they hadn't a bunch of aunts, they should forget working or actually use a daycare center. So they should stop telling people that being SAHM is the right option because they are not.

I don't think I follow. How are Whit and Erin not SAHMs? I can see how Whit might be considered part time, but she's stated that she schedules meeting and things for when Zach is home. And though Erin sells music, I don't really see how she's not a SAHM. Maybe I missed something.

And I don't think that the Bates Have ever professed that women can't work, they've indicted that women should be the primary caregiver of her kids and homeschool. All of the Bates married women do something extra to help with income. Erin sells music and tutors piano, Whitney is doing real estate, Alyssa helps John with his cleaning business a well as brand endorsement on instagram, and Micheal sews and sells homemade goods online. 

Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but it just seems like a vent against the Bates because they have extra hands to watch their kids. I'll grant you that many people do not have this advantage. However, if you follow what the Bates do and claim works. You'd have a large family with plenty of hands to help. Not to mention, many secular families have assistance from family. 

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, veron1que said:

I don't think I follow. How are Whit and Erin not SAHMs? I can see how Whit might be considered part time, but she's stated that she schedules meeting and things for when Zach is home. And though Erin sells music, I don't really see how she's not a SAHM. Maybe I missed something.

And I don't think that the Bates Have ever professed that women can't work, they've indicted that women should be the primary caregiver of her kids and homeschool. All of the Bates married women do something extra to help with income. Erin sells music and tutors piano, Whitney is doing real estate, Alyssa helps John with his cleaning business a well as brand endorsement on instagram, and Micheal sews and sells homemade goods online. 

Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but it just seems like a vent against the Bates because they have extra hands to watch their kids. I'll grant you that many people do not have this advantage. However, if you follow what the Bates do and claim works. You'd have a large family with plenty of hands to help. Not to mention, many secular families have assistance from family. 

Whit stated that she tries to schedule meetings on Zach's free hours, but she also says that sometimes it's not possible.

Erin has tons of pupils (really, lots of them, she posted pictures of them). It's impossible to teach music with 2 toddlers at home. She obviously needs babysitters.

Of course there's nothing wrong when relatives babysit kids. My parents-in-law have done a great job helping me when I'm working and kids are sick or school is closed.

But let's face something. If you really want to be a SAHM, you're a SAHM, not a working mom trying to fake you're not really working. I know some women who used to sew at home for a big clothing company. They claimed they were SAHM but it's not true, they were working hard while kids were with grandma or at school. The fact you're working at home doesn't mean you're not a worker. If you have 5 pupils coming for classes in the afternoon, you have to do these classes no matter what. If you have a meeting with the real state agency boss, you need to attend it no matter what. So you're not a SAHM, you have a job with its responsibilities and obligations and income.

I'm working part timecurrently and in no way I consider my job is less important than my husband's one. Calling it extra-income is downplaying the importance of part-time jobs, like it's just a hobbie. Erin has often stated  that her career is very important for her. I don't know about  Whitney, but if a person with 2 little kids and no economical problems is looking for a job, it's obvious that this person has ambition and staying at home is not enough for him/her (which I absolutely understand).

So that's my point. Bates are working and are trying to somehow hide it. Like if working does not change anything at home and kids don't even notice. It's ridiculous. And I'm telling it as a working mom who think that having a career is the best decision in everybody's life.

[VineHeart137]

1 hour ago, veron1que said:

I don't think I follow. How are Whit and Erin not SAHMs? I can see how Whit might be considered part time, but she's stated that she schedules meeting and things for when Zach is home. And though Erin sells music, I don't really see how she's not a SAHM. Maybe I missed something.

Generally speaking, if you are a mom who works outside the home and someone else besides you needs to care for your kids during that time you're gone, even if it's your husband, most people would not consider you a SAHM. My brother- and sister-in-law both work outside the home but they work opposite shifts, so one of them is always with the kids, but neither of them could really be considered a stay at home parent. However I think it's all very subjective. Whitney might very well consider herself to be a SAHM.

Erin could be considered a work from home mom, assuming her piano lessons take place in her house (I'm not sure that they do though).

[Marly]

55 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

Erin has tons of pupils (really, lots of them, she posted pictures of them). It's impossible to teach music with 2 toddlers at home. She obviously needs babysitters.

Are you sure she teaches piano lessons at her students' homes? It would also be a possibility that she teaches at her own home, for a variety of reasons. (For instance, practicality. Not everyone owns a piano, as it is a rather large and expensive instrument, so it is possible that some of her students practice on a keyboard, and then come to her home to have their lessons on an actual piano. Having two young children would be another reason for it to be practical for Erin to teach at her own home.)
I've had a lot of private music lessons when I was younger, and they were always at the teacher's home, usually because it was just more practical for them to teach at their own home.
And if she does teach at her student's home, it is also a possibility that she brings her kids with her - they are still of an age and numer (i.e. two kids instead of four) that it is possible to bring them with, and I can imagine that within her social circle (I assume most of her students observe a similar kind of Christianity as she does) it is more acceptable for a young mom to bring her children with her.

[VineHeart137]

23 minutes ago, Marly said:

Are you sure she teaches piano lessons at her students' homes? It would also be a possibility that she teaches at her own home, for a variety of reasons.

I don't think @Melissa1977 was saying that Erin doesn't teach at home. I think her point was that she can't teach at home while her two very small children are running around underfoot. Someone else needs to be watching them.

I think it's most likely that while Erin teaches, either Chad or someone in her family takes care of her kids. Carson and Brooklyn are 2 and 1. They are too young to occupy themselves for an hour or however long while Erin teaches piano, and Erin can't stop teaching to tend to them when they need something.  (I mean she could, but it wouldn't be very professional or fair to her student). Whether she's at home or at her students' homes, another adult is most likely in charge of her kids while she is teaching.

[jacduggar]

The daycare question is intrusive, but the Bates have made it their brand to be “family oriented” and made a big to-do about traditional gender roles. It’s an easy thing to question when they’ve built an entire brand around it. I find it the same as people going on and on about fertility and baby watch. It’s an intrusive and rude question to ask, but that’s their brand, so it’s part of the discussion. 

 

I highly doubt the kids go to daycare, though. I’m sure they stay with aunts and uncles when they have to, and Whitney probably does a pretty decent job of scheduling time with her clients and showings when she has help available (either Zach or other family). Her job isn’t necessarily traditional hours, most realtors do the bulk of their client work on evenings and weekends because their clients tend to work during normal business hours. If Zach is on rotating shifts, day shift, or night shift it’d be really easy for her to dedicate 2 evenings and half a Saturday to work. 

[VineHeart137]

Looks like Whit has joined the FabFitFun bandwagon.

 

[Lurky]

6 hours ago, VineHeart137 said:

Generally speaking, if you are a mom who works outside the home and someone else besides you needs to care for your kids during that time you're gone, even if it's your husband, most people would not consider you a SAHM. My brother- and sister-in-law both work outside the home but they work opposite shifts, so one of them is always with the kids, but neither of them could really be considered a stay at home parent. However I think it's all very subjective. Whitney might very well consider herself to be a SAHM.

I agree with you - I don't think that working from home when someone else is providing childcare counts as being a SAHM.   And it wouldn't bother me in the slightest, but so many Fundies are holier-than-thou about women not working for a living, and then do all this rules-lawyering about how their job doesn't count.   My favourite one is Jill Rodrigues, who has spent more of the last year on the road in the RV than she did at home, making her entire family provide entertainment in churches, in exchange for "love offerings", and yet she claims to be a SAHM.  Ridiculous!

[llg1234]

I really hope Whitney didn't pay a lot (or at all) for those highlights/dye job. 

[feministxtian]

Look...I locked up my brakes going 10 fucking miles an hour on a back country road in bumfuck Indiana to teach my kid a lesson about seatbelts. He didn't take any other hints...so...it was like this..."do you want to know what would happen if mommy got in an accident and you didn't have your seatbelt on?"...hit the brakes. His head hit the PADDED back of the middle seat. He got a shocked as fuck look on his face and said "ok mommy, seatbelts". From that moment on he NEVER forgot his seatbelt, even now as a 30 year old man.

So...all of you who have issues with it...fuck off...it was 26+ years ago. The one and only kid who ever got hurt in a car accident was hit by an 87 Cadillac while she was walking across the street. 

As regards "child abuse"...you think you're so fucking holy...yeah, yeah, yeah...you're all such great parents...I find this babyproofing shit still fucking hysterical...TEACH your kid not to fuck with shit...it ain't that hard. Sometimes you have to teach them the "hard" way...but they learned actions have consequences. For over 26 years #1 son has NEVER forgotten his seatbelt, not in the US, not in Iraq...yeah, that "abused" child is a bona fide war hero...guess I wasn't that shitty a mother. 

To the rest of you...fuck off. 

 

[bananabread]

Look, I love that Whitney seems to be a happy, attentive, kind mom and is exploring a career she is interested in, but fundies promoting products (often for $$$) on social media REALLY rubs me the wrong way. Like their whole justification for their "fame" is that it's an opportunity God gave to them for preaching/converting/demonstrating a Godly lifestyle. I don't see how making cash by peddling products to the masses fits into that narrative.

[ColeJo]

1 hour ago, bananabread said:

Look, I love that Whitney seems to be a happy, attentive, kind mom and is exploring a career she is interested in, but fundies promoting products (often for $$$) on social media REALLY rubs me the wrong way. Like their whole justification for their "fame" is that it's an opportunity God gave to them for preaching/converting/demonstrating a Godly lifestyle. I don't see how making cash by peddling products to the masses fits into that narrative.

That's how I feel about people on Facebook promoting products from an MLM. To be frank, a lot of people involved in MLMs are mainly wives and mothers that are a part of the church community.

[jacduggar]

11 hours ago, bananabread said:

Look, I love that Whitney seems to be a happy, attentive, kind mom and is exploring a career she is interested in, but fundies promoting products (often for $$$) on social media REALLY rubs me the wrong way. Like their whole justification for their "fame" is that it's an opportunity God gave to them for preaching/converting/demonstrating a Godly lifestyle. I don't see how making cash by peddling products to the masses fits into that narrative.

Honestly this is a little tired. Using a social media following to make money off of a legitimate product is the same thing as using social media to market a business venture. “Making cash by peddling products” is called business, being a social media influencer fits into that. The fundies can’t win; when they don’t do anything for Work they are poor, helpless, lonely little helpmeets who rely on TV fame to get by. When they do find a way to make money, it’s the wrong way and doesn’t fit the narrative appropriately. I don’t give a shit how they make their money as long as it’s not grifting or taking advantage of others/the system, let them support their freaking families. 

[front hugs > duggs]

I used to get more bothered by it. Someone I follow on Instagram was like a 7th place finisher on the Bachelor a bunch of years ago. She gets asked all the time to promote things, but refuses most offers. She will occasionally promote things she actually loves and uses regularly and things that fit in with the rest of her typical Instagram posts (cooking, fitness, childcare). But won't partner with someone just for the cash and refuses if she doesn't like the product. I thought that was a smart way to go about it. Even if her initial intention of having an Instagram wasn't to promote, she realizes she has a big following and wants her followers to know about the products she loves.

Another TLC family I've seen sponsoring a lot is the Busby family with the all girl quints. They get a lot of shit on their social media about their partnerships and ads. However, the way I see it is that without that opportunity to partner up, they may have struggled a ton financially raising those kids (obviously disregarding TLC pay). I can put up with the social media money making because I can unfollow if it really bothers me and it means some adorable babies are likely better fed, clothed, etc. 

(Let's not get into the whole exploiting your family on national TV thing though...that I don't think I can get behind!).

[HurricaneBells]

Just because it seemed to fit in here...

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/kids/these-women-have-roundthe-clock-nannies-to-help-keep-them-sane/news-story/94757a8dafc92237ff37169d7f7e9534 

And i cannot believe @Feministxian is still copping it over this. Why dont people get that outraged about ACTUAL CHILD ABUSE? Good grief, leave the woman alone! 

[VelociRapture]

22 minutes ago, HurricaneBells said:

Just because it seemed to fit in here...

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/kids/these-women-have-roundthe-clock-nannies-to-help-keep-them-sane/news-story/94757a8dafc92237ff37169d7f7e9534 

And i cannot believe @Feministxian is still copping it over this. Why dont people get that outraged about ACTUAL CHILD ABUSE? Good grief, leave the woman alone! 

Uh... as far as I know that conversation was over for a good amount of time before she responded earlier today (which is fine - she can respond whenever she wants to or has time.) No one has commented back to her and everyone seems perfectly happy to move the conversation elsewhere. So I’m really not sure what the second part of your comment is referring to. 

ETA: And to be clear, I have zero interest in restarting this discussion. I honestly don’t have the energy for it right now. I’m just genuinely confused by what you wrote. 

[VelociRapture]

On 11/15/2017 at 2:33 AM, Marly said:

Zach and Withney posted a new picture of Kaci Lynn on instagram, and I find her so incredibly cute in this picture! 
 

Moving on...

Just went back and saw your post. We actually gave our daughter spaghetti with the family sauce for the first time recently. It was hysterical watching her get it all over her face, though her mess wasn’t as impressive as Kaci’s was. Babies and sauce are always a hysterical combination. 

[llg1234]

Poor Kaci, having to go to Gil for comfort. 

[Percy]

What a cute photo, Kaci looks miserable poor thing.

Gil does seem to be hands on with his younger boys, I guess this photo indicates he may be with the grand babies as well.