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Zach and Whitney Bates - part 4


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Look...I locked up my brakes going 10 fucking miles an hour on a back country road in bumfuck Indiana to teach my kid a lesson about seatbelts. He didn't take any other hints...so...it was like this..

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QuiverDance

Cannot believe the parenting judgment/pile-on going on here. WTactualF? Parenting WAS different and more lax in the 70s and 80s. I was born in 72 with a brother born in 81. Car seats and seat belts were NOT strictly enforced. I would not retroactively cry child abuse. Good gravy. We have better standards now, but there is no excuse for trashing another poster or calling her a liar for her recollection of the way things were decades ago. 

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backyard sylph

I think in Missouri, the mandatory seat belt law began in 84 or so. When I had my daughter in 87, the car seat was required, but it was a big heavy metal and vinyl contraption that no one would put an infant in now. She has a baby and his car seat is awesome and probably a thousand times safer. Things are always changing, and understanding life and people always requires a look at context. Each state's laws were slightly different then and now, and we can reflect on all that with horror or positive nostalgia, but objectivity suggests both are valid.

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VelociRapture
5 hours ago, backyard sylph said:

I think in Missouri, the mandatory seat belt law began in 84 or so. When I had my daughter in 87, the car seat was required, but it was a big heavy metal and vinyl contraption that no one would put an infant in now. She has a baby and his car seat is awesome and probably a thousand times safer. Things are always changing, and understanding life and people always requires a look at context. Each state's laws were slightly different then and now, and we can reflect on all that with horror or positive nostalgia, but objectivity suggests both are valid.

I took a look out of curiosity. Tennessee had the first safety seat law in 1979 and every state had some sort of law on the books by 1985.

https://saferide4kids.com/blog/the-general-history-of-car-seats/

(I don’t know specifics for each state though.)

Not everyone used car seats, even though it was illegal not to. Only 80% of children used car seats by 1987. Which makes sense to me because it takes time for implementation to catch up to recommendations sometimes. I know my parents used seats for us - I have photos of my grandparents and Aunt trying to get my sister into her seat so they could bring her to meet me for the first time in 1988. She would have been 21 months.

The car seat use rate still isn’t 100% yet - 57% of deaths for children between 0-15 were because the child wasn’t restrained (I’m guessing this includes booster seats and seat belts as well) and 75% of seats aren’t installed correctly. So outreach regarding proper car seat safety is still very important, as is informing people where they can have their seat inspected to be sure it’s installed right.

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fluffernutter

I was born in 72. I grew up riding in the back of my dad's pick up truck, unless it was raining or super cold. I cringe now, would never condone it, but it was fun at the time. Windy. We did also have one of those huge station wagons with the wood panels on the side. I remember hanging out in the back part looking at the cars behind me. Never wore a seat belt then either. Of course my hippie parents also smoked weed in said cars too. Different times. 

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spelling, always spelling.
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VineHeart137
17 hours ago, QuiverDance said:

Cannot believe the parenting judgment/pile-on going on here. WTactualF? Parenting WAS different and more lax in the 70s and 80s. I was born in 72 with a brother born in 81. Car seats and seat belts were NOT strictly enforced. I would not retroactively cry child abuse. Good gravy. We have better standards now, but there is no excuse for trashing another poster or calling her a liar for her recollection of the way things were decades ago. 

I'm not seeing much of a pile-on. The child abuse and liar accusations came from one person. Pretty much everyone else has been respectful in  sharing their opinions and experiences, unless I missed something. The poster who started all this basically said that parents of today are coddling their kids because we baby proof and use car seats past a year. Most people are just explaining that yes, we understand that's how it was done in the 70's but there are scientific reasons that we do things differently today and it does not make us overprotective.

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VelociRapture
2 hours ago, VineHeart137 said:

I'm not seeing much of a pile-on. The child abuse and liar accusations came from one person. Pretty much everyone else has been respectful in  sharing their opinions and experiences, unless I missed something. The poster who started all this basically said that parents of today are coddling their kids because we baby proof and use car seats past a year. Most people are just explaining that yes, we understand that's how it was done in the 70's but there are scientific reasons that we do things differently today and it does not make us overprotective.

Not to mention that the poster who called her out had children around the same time as her and was reacting based off information available at that time and her own personal experiences as a parent back then. Not nearly the same as a parent of young kids today imposing modern safety recommendations on past generations.

ETA: Forgot to mention before hitting submit, but the poster calling her out appeared to be far more concerned about the fact that she once purposely caused her toddler’s head to “smash” into the seat in front of him. That was what she said would have been considered child abuse by the people she knew in the early 1980s in Virginia, where both posters lived at one point. So, again, she was basing her opinion off of her personal experience and information relevant to raising children in the same time and place as the other poster.

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QuiverDance

Fair enough.  I think we can be pretty hard in one another as parents, and sometimes that's because of our own resentment of our own parents' shortcomings. I get a little protective of people when I perceive they are being accused unfairly.  We can be more constructive. 

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JesusCampSongs

I did a lot of damnfool things as a kid (along with my cousins) because we were pretty thinly supervised. Example: holding contests to see who could touch the electric fence (our grandmother had horses) the longest. And while electrical fences are designed not to kill or hurt people who accidentally brush up against them, that's pretty different from hanging on to one to prove your ten-year-old mettle. Had any of us had a heart issue, or perhaps done it at just the wrong moment, we could have died.

You're not going to see me running around saying that's an okay thing to do. It was a bad idea, and had we been appropriately supervised, an adult would have been around to tell is to knock it off before we maimed or killed ourselves. Fortunately, nothing bad ever happened from us doing that-- but that was the luck of the draw in that none of us had undiagnosed heart issues or extremely unlucky timing.

Also, the people who did unsafe things and then died from them aren't exactly around to brag about their Danger Prowess now.

 

(ETA: I grew up in the 90's and remember tons of kids getting hurt playing on trampolines without a net. I don't know anyone who died, but I definitely recall sprains, broken bones, cuts/pinch wounds from springs, and concussions, though we didn't call them that back then. You see a lot of people complaining about the netting requirement, but I don't hear nearly as much about injuries as I did back then.)

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clarification and eta
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formergothardite
27 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

I think we can be pretty hard in one another as parents, and sometimes that's because of our own resentment of our own parents' shortcomings. I get a little protective of people when I perceive they are being accused unfairly.  We can be more constructive. 

I think parents can be hard on each other, but I'm going to give the side eye to any parent who thinks it is okay to smash their child's head into a seat to teach them a lesson. Even in the 70's and 80's people knew that wasn't a great thing to do.  It wasn't like she admitted she now realizes this isn't the proper way to deal with the situation, she seems to think it was okay. That was not okay. And it wasn't okay then either. 

 

 

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VelociRapture
1 hour ago, QuiverDance said:

Fair enough.  I think we can be pretty hard in one another as parents, and sometimes that's because of our own resentment of our own parents' shortcomings. I get a little protective of people when I perceive they are being accused unfairly.  We can be more constructive. 

I agree, but that’s definitely not what I thought was going on this time. If it was I would have been calling them out for being unfair too.

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QuiverDance
3 hours ago, formergothardite said:

I think parents can be hard on each other, but I'm going to give the side eye to any parent who thinks it is okay to smash their child's head into a seat to teach them a lesson. Even in the 70's and 80's people knew that wasn't a great thing to do.  It wasn't like she admitted she now realizes this isn't the proper way to deal with the situation, she seems to think it was okay. That was not okay. And it wasn't okay then either. 

 

 

That wasn't the way I read what she wrote. At all. We obviously have different interpretations there. 

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nausicaa
30 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

That wasn't the way I read what she wrote. At all. We obviously have different interpretations there. 

Just want to make sure we're talking about the same post? She said:

Quote

 

Taught one of my kids about the seat belt thing by locking the brakes up and letting him slam his face into the seat in front of him. He's 30 years old and won't start a car until he has his seat belt on. No anti-lock brakes in 1992.

...

Personally, I think kids are being way too coddled anymore. Let them get boo-boos, let them learn that if they raise hell in the car, mom will pull over and tell them to get out until they can behave (did that on a stretch of I-64 somewhere in West Virginia once). 

 

The tone seems to be one of pride. Her saying her son now always wears a seatbelt implies that she sees her method as effective and useful. It certainly doesn't come off as if she sees any of her methods as shortcomings.

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formergothardite
2 hours ago, QuiverDance said:

Yeah I guess I read some hyperbole into that.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Except she made it pretty clear that is exactly what she did:

Quote

. So...I backed out of the driveway on my way to take him to school and could see he was WAY too wiggly for having his seatbelt on...so...I told him again to put his seatbelt on. He claimed he had it on...I told him that I knew he didn't and was going to show him what would happen if I had to stop quickly or get in an accident if he didn't have it on, slammed on the brakes, he went forward into the middle seat and....lesson learned. Never had another problem. 

We are not talking about even the 70's or 80's here. This took place in the 90's and yes, people in the 90's understood that you shouldn't do stuff like this. 

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Personally, I think kids are being way too coddled anymore. Let them get boo-boos, let them learn that if they raise hell in the car, mom will pull over and tell them to get out until they can behave (did that on a stretch of I-64 somewhere in West Virginia once). 

Let them get boo boos? Some of those kids who got boo boos are lying in nursing homes right now, paralyzed from the neck down. Some of those kids with boos boos have chronic arthritis in the joints that were damaged when they were 10. Some of those kids with boo boos are lying six feet under. They are unable to argue with the OP and tell her that bike helmets, trampoline nets, booster seats and rubber playground tiling are good things that keep kids out of hospitals, nursing homes, rehabs, and graveyards.

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QuiverDance

 

For the record I'm not arguing that anyone should eschew seat belts or child restraints. The decrease in child death rates related to the rise of car safety restraints is STAGGERING. 

 

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Outlet covers and cabinet locks - never used them. Took the time to teach the kid not to open the cabinet or touch whatever it was. 

You don't like it? Well...it worked. It was NOT child abuse when I stopped the car. He told his teacher at pre-school that mommy taught him what would happen if he didn't wear his seatbelt. His teacher laughed and said "good for mommy". 

Yes, because toddlers are known for obeying their parents consistently and understanding danger and abstract concepts like electricity.

The problem lies with lazy parents who don't take the time to explain electricity to their 16-month olds. Those parents need outlet covers. Same with sharp knives. Explain and your one year old will understand!

When my kids didn't buckle up, I "took the time" to pull over. And then got  out of the car. Took away the toy they were playing with. Told them to buckle up. Waited for them to buckle up. Returned the toy. Told them that next time they wouldn't be getting the toy back. That took more time than smashing my kids' head against the seat, but whatever. If the preschool teacher says it's fine, then of course that settles everything!

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Kangaroo

I feel like everyone gets a puppy but me! It's certainly a very cute little beagle.

One day I'll get a dog, just need more financial security and the ability to care and look after it properly on a long term basis.

 

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VelociRapture
45 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

 


They have obtained a puppy.

I cringe whenever an animal is given as a birthday or Christmas gift to a kid. At the very least they didn’t give him the puppy on the actual day though. 

Beagles are fantastic family dogs. My sister has a purebred beagle and I have a beagle mix - they absolutely adore the kids. My dog actually seems to think she’s my baby’s mom and that I’m the hired help - she’s very strict about what games are acceptable (no raspberries on the tummy for instance) and she loves kissing the baby all over her face (I just wish the baby wouldn’t purposely open her mouth so she gets french kissed. :pb_rollseyes:)

Beagles can be pretty energetic though and can get into a lot of mischief if not trained well. That may not be an issue as ZachNey seem to be pretty active people, so fingers crossed the little puppy is a good fit. 

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samurai_sarah
12 hours ago, QuiverDance said:

 

For the record I'm not arguing that anyone should eschew seat belts or child restraints. The decrease in child death rates related to the rise of car safety restraints is STAGGERING. 

 

I didn't think you were saying that at all. And a lot of posters have pointed out that it is futile to judge previous generations on today's safety standards. Each generation acts to the best of their knowledge, and the next generation learns.

39 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I cringe whenever an animal is given as a birthday or Christmas gift to a kid.

(snip)

You and me both. Our second dog, when I was a kid entered our home shortly after Christmas.. Their previous owner had just abandoned him, tied to a tree no less, at the side of a motorway. Dad took the dog home, and we adopted him (the dog, not dad). Dog liked us, but kept on running away. We presume he wanted to find his previous owner and just go home.

Heartbreakingly, during one such attempt the dog got run over. I still loathe his previous owner for doing that to the poor fellow.

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ophelia

I really hope that Whitney and Zach already have some experience in training a puppy. Beagles can be wonderful dogs, but they require a lot a dedication and training from their owners and I'm not sure that those two are able to provide them. Damn, they live in circles in which most parents won't even let their kiddos get the education or "training" there need to be functional individuals in this world. And getting a puppy with two little kids at home and Whitney starting working again doesn't sound like such a good idea to me. Not generally speaking - I love puppies and I love babies and I'd love to have one of these things (or both!), but a dog just adds more responsibility and I don't the same handling that well.

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JordynDarby5

You can add my mom to the list of people who hate when people give pets for birthday or Christmas presents. One of her friends gave my brother a puppy for his first birthday. They couldn't give it back and didn't want to give him to the pound. Both my parents talk about how hard it was to take care and train a puppy while also raising a one year old. 

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