Spanky Sproul 2: WTF is Happening, In More Ways than One

[laPapessaGiovanna]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Agreed.  I'm also going to go out on another limb and suggest that the reason the adults children object to their known reprobate of a father's remarriage is that it is to batshit Lisa.  Not that they would necessarily have objected to his remarrying in principle. 

I'm technologically challenged, but I have put the full text of Saint Lisa of the Holy Pile of Malicious and Spiteful Codswallop's post under the spoiler below.  No need to keep giving her hits.

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I fully expect she will take the post down soon.  If someone else can get screenshots they would be appreciated as a cut and paste isn't enough proof of the batshit malice and bald-faced skewing of the facts.

Lisa, thou art a distempered clapper-clawed canker-blossom. 

And, guess what.  We don't believe you.

 

 

Done. Under spoiler.

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Boy she's verbose! I cut short the Bible quotes at the end.

ETA notice how, according to her, once she called his family in Florida to tell them, they apologised TO HER. Wtf? Spanky didn't apologise, why should the rest of the family have apologised, to her of all the people?

[punkiepie]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

I fully expect she will take the post down soon.  If someone else can get screenshots they would be appreciated as a cut and paste isn't enough proof of the batshit malice and bald-faced skewing of the facts.

Lisa, thou art a distempered clapper-clawed canker-blossom. 

And, guess what.  We don't believe you.

Screen shots

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Hope I did this right!  Feel free to edit it if I didn't

[mountaineer]

One more relevant memory of my arms-length association with Jr's Virginia church:

About a decade ago, two moms-of-many from his church were killed in an accident.  One widower remarried very soon after, and the other did not.  He was quite broken for much, much longer, and apparently this was a problem.  Several people told me that he was approached and chastised by some elders for crying openly in church services something like a year (maybe two) after his wife's death.  It was not appropriate, the elders reportedly said, for a man and head of household to be acting this way, especially in front of the rest of the congregation, and he needed to move on.  I can't remember if this was before or after the departure of the Sprouls, so he may have been one of those elders or not.

Eventually the widower did remarry a young woman from another church, changed to her denomination, and seems to be doing great.  And every year on the anniversary of his first wife's passing, he writes something beautiful about how special and beloved she was. 

[Banyan]

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Enduring these things threw my new husband into deeper depression and despair. He confessed he had spent a life living in his head. He had not been happy for most of his adult life and longed for the day when he could be alone. He began to pour all the things that burdened his heart and felt safe to admit and express them, but thought the only way out was to die... My new husband, who was facing suicidal thoughts, agreed that on the 26th he would sign into a behavior hospital.

But, but, but... Lisa you're obviously not "safe." A safe person would never blog such intimate things about her husband for the whole world to see. It doesn't get any more personal and confidential than to have someone confess they're struggling with suicidal ideation -- that "the only way out was to die."

What an awful woman you are. Yes, your husband is awful too but in some ways you're even more awful. Parading such intimate things out in public, when they should only be shared with a licensed professional, leads me to believe you're just trying to make yourself out to be some kind of hero -- saving your husband from suicide. Oh, good for you Lisa. You got him checked in to the mental hospital just in time. But don't forget to let the whole world know about it.

Not that I find any of this surprising. You reap what you sow. I can recollect a number of accounts posted online of people confiding in RC Jr that their marriage was in trouble, they were depressed, suicidal, etc. I've never seen an account where he showed them any compassion. Always just the opposite -- heaping judgment and condemnation on the already deeply wounded. He also often took what was shared in confidence and started whispering campaigns against them. He caused many who were depressed and suicidal to come away even more depressed and suicidal. What goes around comes around.

[MamaJunebug]

@mountaineer, the WTF emoji is in response to the callous treatment of the windowed. Could I do two, there would also be a heart to celebrate his situation now. 

[BobJonesBabe]

Meanwhile, there’s another guy in fundy leadership who married a girl at least 15 years younger than his first wife or himself...less than a year after his wife died. ? He has 5 kids. It was a bit “off,” but he honors his first wife often; and he’s over the moon for his second wife. They’ve been married for almost five years, and he praises both wives, and includes his first wife in throwback posts of birthday collages for his kids.

there’s a little bit of financial scandal surrounding his family, and he just got inexplicably booted from his “high position” (the WILDS Christian Camp). But he does a great job of honoring both wives, even if he got remarried quite quickly. 

[Banyan]

17 minutes ago, mountaineer said:

I can't remember if this was before or after the departure of the Sprouls, so he may have been one of those elders or not.

Sproul Jr was not only there he led the charge on the "just get over it" campaign. That's been his M.O. for many years. Never one to empathize or show compassion in real life, but he's often gushed with it in hypothetical terms -- in his sermons and publications. I can recall he even wrote about that particular tragedy in his Every Thought Captive publication. But once it was written about it was time for everyone to move on. He rushed the two families through the grieving process. He expected everyone to grieve as he grieved -- let's get this over with quickly and move on. Numbing the pain with cases of booze? Perfectly acceptable conduct at St. Peter. But tears in church? Impermissible and subject to a scary visit from the elders.

That's also how Sproul dealt with the loss of Denise and how he treated his children with the loss of their mother. He wrote a little about it, spoke at Ligonier conferences and occasionally made mention of grieving, sometimes even tearing up a little in a show of sincerity, but it was always just to gain sympathy. Any genuine grieving took a back seat to making bank off it. Any mention of his children's grieving was also to make bank off it. Once that objective was accomplished it was time for everyone to "move on," especially the Sproul children.

I found this interesting related comment:

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GNL rj • a year ago

Thanks for your willingness to say something that I'm sure many of us who've personally known RC have seen too, "I believe God is disciplining him." RC believes in and teaches the sovereignty of God. So one has to wonder how so many tragedies could befall him, and even on some of those who've enabled him, and yet he fails to see it as the hand of God? That situation with the two mothers (15 children between them) killed by a falling tree as they were driving home to Mendota surely was not just a freak accident. St. Peter Presbyterian Church had many months before been publicly exposed for the cult that it was (and still is). Some families got out, but most clung on to their fantasy of living in home school full quiver denim jumper utopia. Especially after his defrocking it became more and more hazardous staying too close to RC (and I'm not just talking about getting in his car with him behind the wheel). In spite of all the years of one tragedy after another RC has never repented for the devastation he's caused. But then what cult leader ever has? God is not mocked though.

 

[older than allosaurs]

12 hours ago, punkiepie said:

Definitely agree with this.  For the Sproul kids, in the span of less than five years, their mom dies, their sister dies, their dad is named in the Ashley Madison scandal, their dad gets remarried, their dad is arrested for a DUI while driving with the two younger brothers, their new step-mom tries to erase the memory of their mom, and then their grandfather dies. I mean, holy shit that’s a lot to process. Especially for kids raised the way they were.

I keep focusing on the youngest boys, because they're the youngest, and because they are adopted, meaning their lives are grounded in separation and loss, and because it's a cross-racial adoption, meaning that they attract extra comment and scrutiny wherever they go. 

If you are going to sweep in to that situation and establish yourself as Queen, there is going to be trouble. Even if you aren't an entitled attention-whore, there is likely to be trouble. Those kids need lots and lots of space to be angry and worried, to sort out their feelings, to build trust slowly. They need black people in their lives as mentors and sounding boards. They need the reassurance of their older siblings' love. They don't need the message that living with them made their dad unhappy.

In those aspects, our families are similar. Also, my former husband is a diagnosed narcissist and substance abuser, and amazingly enough, every single layer of complexity in our family was a conspiracy by me and our kids to hold him back from his grand destiny. We've been divorced nearly 20 years and he's still on about it. He boycotts college graduations, grandchildren events, family get-togethers. Every now and then he checks in berate someone, and that's just about his only contact with his children. If Lisa gets tired of R.C., perhaps she'd like to give my ex a whirl. She'd have to drop all that God stuff, as he's an anti-theist, but I doubt it goes very deep with her anyway.

 

[hoipolloi]

Just following on @Banyan's comment above with a link to the source of that former associate or parishioner of Spanky's. It's worth clicking over to read the article and the rest of the comments.

 

[BobJonesBabe]

1 hour ago, Banyan said:

That situation with the two mothers (15 children between them) killed by a falling tree as they were driving home to Mendota surely was not just a freak accident.

Yikes!! What is that supposed to mean?! That he's merely affirming the taste of Spanky's "God is sovereign..." or, something more nefarious?!  

[mountaineer]

1 hour ago, Banyan said:

Never one to empathize or show compassion in real life, but he's often gushed with it in hypothetical terms -- in his sermons and publications.

He's a performer.  And he must have been good at it at one point.  Like Phillips, like all of them; ministry is a decent place for a born performer to make a living, it seems.

[thoughtful]

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They asked if I knew any reason if he could be impaired. I knew he was on meds for his blood pressure, but nothing else- and no reason why he would be impaired.

Good thing it isn't physically possible to ROFL, eyeroll, snort, vomit, yell "Liar!" and give a two-handed bird to my computer screen at the same time -- I'd be a mess.

[Lisafer]

Oh my...those long-winded posts...the way she talks about RC's children is so vicious and hateful. I don't know much about this family, but I feel so bad for those kids! 

[Flyinthesoup]

16 hours ago, punkiepie said:

In my search to find the answer to @MamaJunebug s question- I came across this post made by Lisa:

https://thepurposedrivenwife.com/hearing-god/f/his-sovereign-plan-glory-and-grace

Have we discussed this here?!! Because it is terrible!  She writes “ While going through her phone we discovered a texting group all my new children were involved in- it was disheartening, diabolically evil (as my father in law put it.) That discovery led my husband to remove his blessing upon his daughter’s upcoming wedding.”

Based on the timing, it seems like it would be Delaney’s wedding. Which, if I’m not mistaken, RC Sproul, Sr., officiated, right?  So he probably didn’t think Delaney was diabolically evil if he still officiated her wedding. Also, she writes about how Jr., wasn’t allowed to officiate Sr’s funeral because of his “scandals.” She said that Jr. did a graveside service before the actual funeral, but from what she wrote, it makes it sound like they left as soon as the graveside service was over and they didn’t attend the big funeral. If I’m reading that incorrectly, let me know. Lisa has a very odd writing style. 

To the underlined and bold text, if that's true (I'm not doubting it), and given the photo of the wedding with the Tool there, that would mean the two men are likely at odds.  To have one support the marriage and one not, that is probably causing more rift than we know.  Obviously Beall has been in full support, so.......the two women are likely not best buds. 

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, BobJonesBabe said:

Yikes!! What is that supposed to mean?! That he's merely affirming the taste of Spanky's "God is sovereign..." or, something more nefarious?!  

I rather interpreted it as the writer advising no-one get close to Spanky - because the next lightning bolt God smites him with will also take out everyone, however innocent, within miles.

Not a theological perspective I agree with, but still.

And what @hoipolloi, said in her mini-exegesis here:

12 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

A mini-exegesis of some of Lisa's blog entries:

IOW, she had eye on him for years before they married. ??

Lisa, your new husband was fucking blackout drunk. That's why he couldn't remember anything. That's also why you didn't have your extended honeymoon -- your new husband got arrested for drunken driving with minor children in the vehicle. Please -- put blame where it's deserved, and that isn't on the children of your new husband's prior marriage.

Perhaps, Lisa, this episode of drunken driving was the last straw for "the children" since their father had also endangered their beloved siblings' lives with his reckless behavior. Hardly an "assault of character" -- more like righteous anger, and something that everyone except the drunkard and his enabler(s) could see. 

Nice try, Lisa, but actual dates and things like photographs seem to tell a different story.

This photo of the bride's and groom's families from the Sep 2017 wedding -- you know, the one your husband "removed his blessing" from -- would suggest that you and Spanky were the real personae non gratae. Note that to the bride's left are Vesta Sproul (her husband, RC Sr, officiated), the bride's paternal grandmother, and the Rockleins, parents of Denise Sproul and the bride's maternal grandparents. You and RC Jr are not there but it looks like nearly everyone else is. 

Not to be redundant, but we learn from this that Lisa had her eye on RCJr during her last marriage.  Great.  Once she divorced, they basically eloped with a civil wedding and the felony drunk driving happened two days later.  And I call bullshit on her not knowing the Spankster was a drunk.  Heck, we've been talking about it for years.

The only reason I can think of for her new in-laws to apologise to her would be:  "So sorry, Lisa.  If we had known you two were actually getting married we would have told you never to let him drive with the kids in the car."

Also all those supposed quotes from her dear father-in-law.  Senior can't actually contradict her from the grave can he, poor man.

That whole vicious rant by Schmoopy Lisa,  and the possessiveness towards that sorry specimen RCJr, makes me think of this.  It was his parent's nickname for him after all.

Spoiler

 

So which kids are still minors and in the clutches of Gollum and her Precious.  Erin Claire has presumably turned 18 and escaped to live with Darby, so that leaves Maili, Reilly, and Donovan.  Poor things.  Do we know how old they are now? 

[Howl]

I think I'm getting a better idea of what happened when RC and Lisa got married, but a lot of speculation here.   Correct me if I'm wrong on which kids were living with RC when.   

RC had a houseful of kids (older daughter(s), younger sons and at least one daughter  was still at home running the household, taking care of her siblings, taking up the slack and keeping the mom role covered.  Then Lisa shows up suddenly.  So even in a much better adjusted family, this is a recipe for disaster.   In this situation (alcoholic dad, mom deceased) it was a disaster.  RC's kids did not have a chance to get to know her before she suddenly became their mom. 

Several things going on here.  First, alcoholic dad.  As noted above, usual in these family dynamics for the oldest kid on the scene to assume a parental role, and especially so since the mom had passed away.  So yes, the daughter(s) at home who had been running things would terrifically resent the abrupt intrusion of a new wife for many, many reasons.  And in one regard, Lisa is correct.  It was an absolute disaster that no one was in family counseling before they tried to blend families.  Let me just say that Dr. Phil would have shit a brick over this. 

It's also apparent that she didn't realize that RC was an alcoholic. And again, in that incredible wall o' text SHE DOESN'T MENTION IT.  

And one more thing that's a huge red flag: she says that RC has no memory of his arrest and the next few days.  None, zip, zero.  Lisa, this is called an alcoholic blackout.  When you're having alcoholic blackouts lasting for days, you're way the hell down the line on the alcohol abuse spectrum. 

Blargh.  

[AnnaSofia]

According to Lisa, she began contact with Spanky in August 2013, I believe they had their civil wedding in October of 2016, and the one with Sr. officiating was November 2016. *If* Spanky had introduced the families beforehand, it shouldn't have been completely sudden. (Note: I'm not sure how much exposure the families had to each other prior, I can't get through much of Lisa's writing style).

By the time Spanky and LIsa married, Darby would have already been married (I'm thinking with at least one kid?), and Delaney would have been at RBC and seeing (maybe already engaged to?) JT Phillips. I'm sure they were still helping to bring up their siblings, but I doubt either necessarily wanted to run the home indefinitely.

Re: Erin Claire, I found a post where Spanky mentions her birthday, and I believe she'll be 18 next month (a bit younger than I thought she was). I can't find ages for the other three younger kids.

[Palimpsest]

@AnnaSofia beat me too it, 

• Denise went to be with the Lord:  Dec 18, 2011
• Shannon died (RIP, sweetie): October 3, 2012
• Lisa started slinging her hooks at Spanky, by own admission: 2013
• Darby married Chris Stouffer:  March 22, 2014
• R. Campbell married Hannah Knapp: Jan, 2015
• Spanky confesses to Ashley Madison: August 2015
• Lisa Carol Ringel and David Neil Ringel filed for divorce (can't find the date the divorce was final): March 16, 2016
• Spanky married Lisa (civil ceremony): October 14, 2016
• Ecclesiastical wedding performed by RCSn: November 19, 2016
• Precious arrested:  November 29, 2016
• Delaney married JTits:  September 29th, 2017

I wonder whether Spanky ever got the oil in the car changed.

I would estimate Lisa's divorce took a minimum of 6 months to go through so it was a quick remarriage.

 

[AnnaSofia]

Yikes, I didn't realize just how close Lisa's last divorce was to her wedding with Spanky. If that's the case, maybe she wasn't introduced to the kids until the last minute.

[BobJonesBabe]

4 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

 

• Lisa started slinging her hooks at Spanky, by own admission: 2013
• Lisa Carol Ringel and David Neil Ringel filed for divorce (can't find the date the divorce was final): March 16, 2016
• Spanky married Lisa (civil ceremony): October 14, 2016

 

I mean...he'd already admitted to Ashley Madison...but again, some highly questionable stuff for a man in his world? 

Well, for him just *more* highly questionable to add onto the steaming pile.

[refugee]

3 hours ago, BobJonesBabe said:

Yikes!! What is that supposed to mean?! That he's merely affirming the taste of Spanky's "God is sovereign..." or, something more nefarious?!  

Sounded to me like it was claiming “god was punishing RC Jr by killing these two mothers of many, bereaving their families, etc.” Really f...ed up thinking.

[Leftitinmysnood]

Drop-in degreed medical professional to point out that gallstones can be caused by alcoholism, although that is an awful lot of procedures for one gallbladder. Biliary drains in and out, liver biopsy and gallbladder removal? Is she counting CT scans? Did he have liver problems, too? Also, alcohol withdrawals can include depression, anxiety, and irritability (like "suicidal thoughts" or however Lisa said it). This drunk driving was is not a rare occurance of drinking. Everything she discloses says otherwise. 

Not to defend Lisa, but one wonders how much he told her about dynamics before the wedding, and how much he just thought he needed a magic nanny/postulate/manic pixie dream girl to fix everything. After all, unless the emotion is triumph or rage, emotions are women's work there. Real men bury theirs with scotch (I'm looking at you, Doug Wilson!)

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, AnnaSofia said:

Yikes, I didn't realize just how close Lisa's last divorce was to her wedding with Spanky. If that's the case, maybe she wasn't introduced to the kids until the last minute.

Well, it was probably an awkward introduction.  Whether it was before or after the civil wedding was over.  Spanky was still in disgrace and on leave from Ligonier after the Ashley Madison thing.

If it was before the divorce was final, something along the lines of:

Mom and Dad, beloved children of my first marriage, relatives, friends, and the rest of Ligonier Ministries.  This is Lisa - my Eve, my Ruth, my voice of Jesus calling me out of the grave.  I swear I didn't find her on Ashley Madison.  We've been emailing since 2013.

She's still married to a real life Jewish person but is ever so Christian herself.  He's a doctor accused of a felony, but it is quite OK; they are getting a divorce.  She's very experienced at marriage and divorce having done it a couple of other times.  As for mothering; she's a genius.  She'll have you all whipped into shape in no time.  Just don't give her any "To Do" lists.  She knows it all. 

And to lighten the mood a little, I remembered @Salty1 was not very keen on Lisa.  Her posts are quite instructive - and she also gave us Spanky and Lisa's wedding photo for posterity.  Lisa's wedding dress was ... quite exceptional.

 

 

[hoipolloi]

Went to check on Ligonier Ministries, and the latest IRS 990 available is for 2016. Here's a screenshot of the BOD.

Note that Spanky's tenure as a Director (for over $120K + nearly $50K in other compensation) ended December 9, 2016. That was quite a nice salary -- for what? On December 12, 2016, Ligonier issued a statement saying that Spanky had "resigned."

Will be interesting to see the 2017 & 2018 990s whenever they come to light.

[mountaineer]

20 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Mom and Dad, beloved children of my first marriage, relatives, friends, and the rest of Ligonier Ministries.  This is Lisa - my Eve, my Ruth, my voice of Jesus calling me out of the grave.  I swear I didn't find her on Ashley Madison.  We've been emailing since 2013.

She's still married to a real life Jewish person but is ever so Christian herself.  He's a doctor accused of a felony, but it is quite OK; they are getting a divorce.  She's very experienced at marriage and divorce having done it a couple of other times.  As for mothering; she's a genius.  She'll have you all whipped into shape in no time.  Just don't give her any "To Do" lists.  She knows it all.

I find myself hoping fervently that Delaney and JT's courtship involved a healthy degree of "Holy shit, both of our fathers are kind of awful, as it turns out. I guess we better sort that out before we get married, huh?"