Counting On, Season 4 Part 2: Still Far Behind Real Life

[Lurky]

5 hours ago, griffin said:

If Austin has half a brain, he is going to be bored to death with her very soon. She has nothing to offer. That can be cutesy for a guy for awhile, but it gets old fast.

Oh, I disagree.  Joy loves being in the outdoors, and hiking, and doing practical things with her hands, we've seen that all the way through.  She has a ton of interests, and just because she's not performing femininity like you think she should be, that doesn't mean she has NOTHING to offer.  What a cruel thing to say about a person!

The fact Joy and Austin love doing outdoorsy things together, and working on the house flipping, and at the camp etc is a far better indication of compatibility than the fact she doesn't want a big wedding.

5 hours ago, griffin said:

How does someone NOT have a flavor of cake they like??

Jessa didn't, either.  I wish Joy could have opted out of cake like her sister was allowed to, but the Duggar brand has moved on, and I think forcing Joy to have this princess day (rather than an outdoor wedding, or one in a barn full of twinkly lights) seems like it's some kind of punishment to her.  She's being told this will be the best day of her life, but she's not allowed any real choices, just options within a set pattern she clearly hates.

[Jana814]

If I was to ever get married. At this point probably a slim to none chance. I would want to take my sister, mother and possibly aunt to go dress shopping. The reason for my aunt is that my cousin is a selfish bitch and refused to have her mother go dress shopping with her. My aunt was really upset about it. 

[Feministe9000]

11 minutes ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

I see what you're saying that it's pretty common. I was just feeling like we are seeing so much of Derick's personality but not Israel's. And we get enough of Derick as it is.

This is what I'm saying. I didn't realize that this was so common, and if so, whatever, but in this specific instance, given what we have witnessed with Derick as a father, this is pretty self centered. Especially, given that they are all the way in Sintral America, where 'OSU Cowboys" couldn't be less relevant. Not really necessary to "rep" your college? I'm all for being a proud alumni (VCU Rams over here!), but Derick seems to take it to a bit of an obsessive level, to the point where it infiltrates his son's already pretty sad birthday celebration.

 

[SapphireSlytherin]

1 hour ago, Iokaste said:

I cringe when I see otherwise reasonable and intelligent people participate in sport culture.    

Um. OK. Not sure why anyone participating in "sport culture" should be cringe-worthy. So they decorate their homes with their university/pro team's mascot, go to university/high school/professional games, wear sports-appropriate "fan" clothing, cheer for their team - what's wrong with that?

It's not like they're acting (most times) like the notorious football hooligans.

[Eternalbluepearl]

40 minutes ago, Irene said:

OMG, that as a bbboring episode.

Which one? 

6 hours ago, griffin said:

 How does someone NOT have a flavor of cake they like?? 

I don't like cake. I really love ice cream cake though and asked for that at our wedding. Not instead of a regular cake, but just in addition to so I was represented. I was told no by my family, that would be too hard to do at an indoor restaurant brunch that definitely had freezers. Sigh. I have asked again for an ice cream cake at my upcoming baby shower and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it happens. My family all LOVE cake and when I say I don't, I'm just told "you haven't had the cake from such and such bakery....you'll love it." I've felt this way about cake my whole life and I'm in my early 30's. The message hasn't gotten through yet. 

[Irene]

18 minutes ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

Which one? 

 

The lattest.

[sunshine]

I wanted to see Joy in a skirt for her wedding. 

[NotQuiteMotY]

9 hours ago, candygirl200413 said:

NFL wise though if I have kids I already know they're going home in a flyeaglesfly onesie

So far my son's had Phillies onesies and an Eagles sweatsuit. We're still working on a Flyers orange piece of clothing for their next season. 

[Eternalbluepearl]

I thought it was interesting how much Jessa was trying to help Joy and how Michelle was more of a background character. I am glad that the sisters have each other. I wonder if it's common for the mom of a large fundie family to kind of check out after so many years. Just because you can physically have babies from your teenage years through your 40's doesn't mean you necessarily have that many active parenting years in you. If that made sense at all. 

[Carm_88]

There is a big difference between the average kid having a university sports themed cake and Izzy having one; Izzy is likely to be schooled at the SOTDRT, he's not going to go to university. He'll be learning bible verses and how to do the basics, not calculus and Catcher in the Rye/Old Man and the Sea/Macbeth. 

It's different for me because I was never pushed toward any team as a kid. My Dad, brother, and I all cheer for completely different hockey teams. The only time we can come together is it's Team Canada, there was no push either way. 

[nst]

I think it's just their version of wanting to be connected to something from the states and not feel that they aren't connected.   For Jill it's Derick's way of life.   For Derick it's holding onto something from his father. 

It's never going to occur that Izzy or Sam go there - but for now it's a storyline 

[Greendoor]

3 hours ago, Iokaste said:

The intimate relationship between sport and higher education in the US, is so weird to me. Seriously why and how did this happen?
I get that now there is a lot of money and prestige tied up in it, but shouldn't university be about education and research and knowledge? 
It's probably just my deep skepsis and distrust in the benefits of professional sport overall, but I cringe when I see otherwise reasonable and intelligent people participate in sport culture.    
 

I thnk most athletes are there for there athletic ability and the education is a side benefit as the focus is on getting to pro sports where the money is.  Most countries do similar things with at least a little reserve -   Oxford and Cambridge have a 8's competition.

Most academics like to watch the athletes, as they are the reverse, the focus is on education, with a side of vacarious athleticism.  Arm chair quarterbacking is a sport.  Soccer hooligans are a less evolved witness to the same phenomena.  The Romans did much the same at colesseums.   The Greeks invented the Olympic Games - nice to watch bodies doing things (safe to say no philosopher ever did the marathon).  

[HereticHick]

4 hours ago, Iokaste said:

It's probably just my deep skepsis and distrust in the benefits of professional sport overall, but I cringe when I see otherwise reasonable and intelligent people participate in sport culture.    
 

It is possible to to be both "reasonable and intelligent" and to participate in "sport culture". Humans are capable of not being pigeonholed.

I see you are in Scandinavia--I guess you never watch ski jumping? or the Winter Olympics?

For a nice example of a person who is capable of doing multiple things, consider perusing some of the writings of a very thoughtful American who used to be an excellent athlete: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

 

[Gillyweed]

15 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

Big 10 Schools:

You forgot Maryland!!! Our football team sucks, but our basketball team is pretty good! 

Go terps!

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

Yeah, doesn't he Big Ten now have something like 14 schools?  The Big 12 is down to 8, it is so confusing now.

[griffin]

My rant about the cake tasting was because of was Lurky explained. They forced Joy to have the "princess day" experiences that she had NO interest in. They made her suffer through the cake thing and the dress thing for the show/brand. They had to know she didn't care about any of it.

 

[Four is Enough]

3 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Um. OK. Not sure why anyone participating in "sport culture" should be cringe-worthy. So they decorate their homes with their university/pro team's mascot, go to university/high school/professional games, wear sports-appropriate "fan" clothing, cheer for their team - what's wrong with that?

It's not like they're acting (most times) like the notorious football hooligans.

Like all those people sitting in the stands have anything whatsoever to do with what goes on at field level.... except to watch. The level of involved-ness is very strange to me... why my neighbor paid an exorbitant amount of money for his PSLs, then gets up at oh dark thirty on "game days" to pack his grill, food, alcohol, etc, to go sit in the parking lot of the football stadium for hours, waiting for the doors to open,  then attends the game, comes out, packs up all that stuff, and makes the trek back here... to watch a bunch of men throw around a ball and knock each other down for it.

He doesn't go to church. He doesn't belong to a lodge or social club. This is what he chooses to involve himself with. I'm not even sure he votes.  I don't understand it, but I will say, I cringe when I hear my own family talking about how "we" won.. no, THEY won. YOU watched.

But I find it stupid, not entertaining or edifying. Many people's mileage will vary on this point.

[Maggie Mae]

35 minutes ago, Gillyweed said:

You forgot Maryland!!! Our football team sucks, but our basketball team is pretty good! 

Go terps!

Sorry! My point still stands that the majority of teams in the conference that I can name (what I thought was) all of the teams have major sports teams in the state. Obviously you guys have the Ravens and the Orioles and maybe a nba team? (I really don't follow enough basketball. I can name like four teams and they are all in the Midwest and/or don't exist anymore (Seattle Supersonics!).  

I think I'm missing one more, actually. There are 14 teams in the Big Ten; my list upthread now has 13. (I can't edit Maryland back in)  so under the spoiler I C&Ped it. 

Spoiler

Big 10 Schools: 

• Michigan - Michigan has an NFL Team (lions), NBA Team(Pistons), NHL Team (Red Wings), and MLB (tigers)
• Michigan State - See above
• Penn State - NFL (Eagles), NBA, NHL (Flyers?), MLB (Phillies)  
• Rutgers - It's in New Jersey so IDK. 
• Illinois - Bears, Black Hawks, Bulls, White Sox, Cubs
• Iowa - 
• Minnesota - Vikings, Twins, Timberwolves, Wild
• Nebraska - 
• Northwestern - It's in Illinois, so same as IU
• Perdue - Indiana - Colts, Pacers
• Wisconsin - GB Packers, Brewers, and I think they have a basketball team 
• Oh, and Ohio - who cares. (Reds, Browns, Indians, Bengals, Cavaliers, and I think they have a hockey team) 
• Maryland - Ravens (NFL), Orioles (MLB) 

 

[singsingsing]

Why do people do anything? Spend all kinds of time and money going to the opera, going on vacations, fixing up old cars, competing in chess tournaments, cosplaying anime characters at conventions, blogging about makeup? Because they enjoy it, and often because it gives them a sense of community and belonging. I don't understand the appeal of half of what other people do, but unless they're hurting themselves or someone else, I couldn't care less. I have enough weird interests and hobbies of my own. I don't care if someone wants to fly around the country following their favourite sports team, as long as they don't try to force me to come along, or stop me from spending hours meticulously tracing my family tree instead.  

[Maggie Mae]

49 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

Like all those people sitting in the stands have anything whatsoever to do with what goes on at field level.... except to watch. The level of involved-ness is very strange to me... why my neighbor paid an exorbitant amount of money for his PSLs, then gets up at oh dark thirty on "game days" to pack his grill, food, alcohol, etc, to go sit in the parking lot of the football stadium for hours, waiting for the doors to open,  then attends the game, comes out, packs up all that stuff, and makes the trek back here... to watch a bunch of men throw around a ball and knock each other down for it.

People go to church - they are asked to spend 10% of their income to some guy who reads to them from a book. It doesn't enrich my life at all to waste half a day with people who don't like me, being told to give them more money so they can tell more people to give them money. 

People follow celebrity culture - I don't understand that all all. Or cosplaying - that's a waste of money. Why should we do anything for entertainment at all then? People have watch parties for shows like Game of Thrones - does that fit your idea of an appropriate way to spend money and time? 

People like football. Football has some problems, but the idea of people watching something isn't the problem. 

[Rachel333]

I do wonder how long football will last now that there are mountains of evidence on how dangerous it is.

[Knight of Ni]

My daughter is turning two soon. She really likes cats so she will get a cat cake. (She gets adorably excited when she sees pictures of cats at the store and her first word was cat.) I didn't ask her what she wants because I doubt she'll be able to tell me because her favorite word is dada right now. Unless I specifically have her repeat words it's always dada. Maybe when she gets older she will get a cake of either of my husband's or mine alma mater. 

[JesusCampSongs]

27 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

I do wonder how long football will last now that there are mountains of evidence on how dangerous it is.

I have been wondering that myself. Most of my friends don't have kids who are old enough to play yet, but thus far, they have all posted things on facebook or said things to the effect that they won't allow their kids to play (US) football. I do know a few people and have some family members whose kids are already involved in the sport, and they've reluctantly allowed them to continue playing. None of their kids are very athletically gifted, though, so I think they're hoping their kids' levels of interest wane on their own so they don't have to be the bad guy once their kids hit high school and the game becomes more dangerous.

This could be the circles that I run in, though; most of the people I associate with are medical professionals, attorneys, teachers/academics, and are definitely not representative of mainstream American society. That said, I've heard through the grapevine that the local youth football league is having to reduce the number of teams and travel more for games because enrollment has dropped like a rock the past few years. So while I think a lot of people still like to watch football and participate in football culture-- and will probably continue to do so-- they don't want their kids playing and getting CTE. 

Personally, I'm not into sports culture at all and have ethical objections to it--mainly in terms of how exploitative the NCAA and pro leagues are, which will likely only escalate as the middle and upper classes withdraw from participating in sports but continue to support them financially by watching the games and participating in the sports culture. I'm not going to shame or look down on people who enjoy it, but I do take the opportunity to educate others about these issues when it presents itself. 

[Maggie Mae]

4 minutes ago, JesusCampSongs said:

I'm not going to shame or look down on people who enjoy it, but I do take the opportunity to educate others about these issues when it presents itself. 

I understand this; I have the same objections. However, I do still support it, at least a little by watching it on internet tv and playing fantasy sports. 

I do, however, hate the idea that if someone is interested in watching sports with their family/playing fantasy at work, that someone they aren't also artistic/musical/intellectual. Lots of people participate in adult league sports in their community and manage to be engineers, work in academia, work as doctors and lawyers and designers. It doesn't have to be an either/or thing, and i think that continuing to perpetuate these stereotypes are harmful.  People can both like the NFL (a lot of us grew up watching football with our parents) and be smart/academic. 

[cascarones]

44 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

I do, however, hate the idea that if someone is interested in watching sports with their family/playing fantasy at work, that someone they aren't also artistic/musical/intellectual. Lots of people participate in adult league sports in their community and manage to be engineers, work in academia, work as doctors and lawyers and designers. It doesn't have to be an either/or thing, and i think that continuing to perpetuate these stereotypes are harmful.  People can both like the NFL (a lot of us grew up watching football with our parents) and be smart/academic. 

This exactly. I was no less of a stellar data scientist when I was playing Flag football on Mon,volley on Tues,  soccer on Wed, kickball on Thurs. I enjoy physical activity and dislike the treadmill, why not have fun and be social doing it? A lot of smart people are attracted to the odds games in sports, it's very statistics heavy and when you think of the number of plays the football players have memorized it's really quite impressive. 

Dress shopping? Eh, my parents were visiting so I took them, called ahead to let them know my mom's short term memory is going and that she might get confused as to why she was there in case she was looking by herself. It was fine, she loves her bright eyeshadow and rhinestones, so I did the fake smile and try on dresses that would be perfect for a Vegas wedding officiated by Elvis for her.

Trying to get my parents to understand that wedding dress sizing has no correlation to either US, UK or EU sizes was completely futile. Did I have the moment? No, not really, but I'm not that type of person anyway. I would have struggled like Joy had there been more opinions in trying to take it all in and it probably would have brought out my indecisive side.

Heck, I like to read the menu before I go to restaurants so I don't flail about when ordering, panic and order whatever is directly in the middle of the page. I know some people don't like when their date orders for them, but I actually really love it. There's a certain amount of trust in how well they know you, a thoughtfulness in the discussion of food and quite often the guy ends up ordering your other choice in case he messed up so you can share! 

As far as Joy? I get the impression her indecisiveness is compartmentalized. She's perfectly capable of making decisions and issuing orders for the younger ones, it's just new territory making decisions for herself. Purchasing things that aren't second hand or off the sale rack directly in front of her, it is hard to imagine how it all comes together. It's the curse of online shopping!