Jon and Kate fight over Hannah

[fridge111]

Has anyone been reading about Jon and Kate's fight over Hannah?

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/kate-gosselin-jon-gosselin-custody-police-daughter-140042

http://hollywoodlife.com/2017/08/23/jon-kate-gosselin-custody-battle-violent-fight-hannah-hospital/

[Seculardaisy]

1 hour ago, fridge111 said:

Has anyone been reading about Jon and Kate's fight over Hannah?

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/kate-gosselin-jon-gosselin-custody-police-daughter-140042

http://hollywoodlife.com/2017/08/23/jon-kate-gosselin-custody-battle-violent-fight-hannah-hospital/

Holy moly that was depressing to read. 

[Mela99]

People had the story up yesterday about the orthodontist incident.

I've said it before, but neither of those two is fit to be a co-parent. I feel so damned bad for the kids. 

 

[Jess]

Didn't they have a fight over Hannah, where she wanted to live with Jon then, a couple of years ago? Neither of them should have kids, but it's to late now. At least the kids are starting to get to an age where they have more say in the matter and express their feelings more.

[nssherlock]

14 minutes ago, Jess said:

Didn't they have a fight over Hannah, where she wanted to live with Jon then, a couple of years ago? Neither of them should have kids, but it's to late now. At least the kids are starting to get to an age where they have more say in the matter and express their feelings more.

How is this slimy loser going to support any of the kids???   He pays no child support or alimony, fine, but he also has no steady job and goes from dump to dump and woman to woman.

Kate is no joy, BUT she has kept her kids safe, clean, educated.    Her girls are teens now, hormones amuck and somehow fantasizing about an absentee father who literally left them saying he was "too young" to have so many kids.   His history is horrible, grifting, scamming, trying to be a celebrity - all of which failed.   He stole the kids' trust fund, a judge had to order him to return it.

He's scum, in every way and obviously even less fit than Kate to take care of the kids he was "too young" to stay and raise.   I have no respect or sympathy for him at all.

 

Poor kids - they really haven't got much of a chance.

 

[fridge111]

48 minutes ago, Jess said:

Didn't they have a fight over Hannah, where she wanted to live with Jon then, a couple of years ago? Neither of them should have kids, but it's to late now. At least the kids are starting to get to an age where they have more say in the matter and express their feelings more.

I think Jon tried to get sole custody of her a few years ago but failed

[JermajestyDuggar]

If the second link is true, the police fucked up royally. They told Kate to pull the child out? WTF? I've been trained in restraining kids and I can't believe they just told her to grab her daughter. She's not 5! She's probably the size of many adults. No wonder Hannah was hurt! Although the parents are awful, I blame the police too.

[Gobsmacked]

Kate needs a good talking to by someone neutral but who knows the history. She really needs a good strong verbal slapping. As has been expressed already, John is useless over all but probably loves his kids. He has to grow up and not use the kids as pawns in his and Kate's power battle. Kate could have called an adult who Hannah trusts to help diffuse the situation. Ideally someone who could have invited Hannah over for the night to let everyone calm down.

The planets were surely misaligned the night John and Kate met. 

[Carm_88]

Those poor kids, Kate is a banshee so I don't doubt that she would hurt Hannah trying to get her out of the car. 

[JenniferJuniper]

37 minutes ago, Gobsmacked said:

The planets were surely misaligned the night John and Kate met. 

Maybe.  Or maybe it's the Curse of the Reality Show once again.

"Television ate my family."  Lance Loud

[Fluffy14]

I have seen it where kids want to go with the parent who is more lenient.  Personally, I think Kate is condescending , sarcastic, plays a victim, and is extremely manipulative. This is only what I see when the cameras are rolling. What kind of demon parent is she went the cameras are not there?

She may be able to send them to school, feed them, get them to bed, get them to do homework, but there is so much lacking in her parenting and personal self she is ruining those kids. 

She is emotionally abusing these kids. Jon might not be a saint but her might be a better emotional parent. We don't know because he has not had them.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I believe a 13 year old is old enough to choose for themselves. 

[Escadora]

I have no cock in this fight* but I do think that Jon was in the wrong here. Whether or not Hannah wanted to go home, a court-sanctioned custody agreement dictated that she had to. That he encouraged her to fight her mother on the issue to the point where she was injured enough to need to go to the hospital was irresponsible and shows that he cared more about making Kate look unreasonable (like she needs any help with that) than he did about Hannah's feelings and well-being. 

If Jon was that worried about Hannah he could have phoned the police with his worries and asked them for help with keeping Hannah with him past the arranged time period of his custody. I know this is possible because this is how my aunt was finally able to win back custody of her daughter from her father, by being calm and rational, and contacting the proper authorities to get the best help before it turned into an all-out war. 

I have no trouble believing that Jon orchestrated it to get one over on Kate at all.  Not that Kate should have tried to physically remove Hannah from the car. That's why you get police escorts, to make sure everything goes smoothly and with no harm to any party.

I just don't see it that Jon is a better emotional parent at all, in fact he seems very easily bored. His in-and-out relationships since the divorce, his inability to find a permanent, stable home, etc...  The fact that he might scream at them less than Kate does isn't enough to convince me that the children would be better off with him. She, at the very least, cared enough to practically beg the network for the continued source of income that sustains the family (ethical issues about kids growing up under the watchful eye of a nation aside, she does see to it that the kids don't go hungry and that they have a stable, familiar roof under their heads). I've watched the entire series twice through (barring the past two seasons because I have a life that involves  having no free time now), and have done a fair bit of reading on this family and what always struck me about Jon as that he never seemed to give a shit about the kids apart from when it was convenient for him to, or when it gave him an opportunity to shit all over Kate. 

I very much do believe that if he ever got sole custody of any of them, even for a while, he'd get bored very quickly and be just as bad, if not worse, than Kate.

Now, Kate, she's manipulative, angry, a chronic over-reactor, and I imagine she has quite the nasty streak when provoked. She needs so much in the way of help it's not even funny. I don't doubt at all that there is some serious emotional abuse and manipulation going on in that house. She truly does act appallingly at times. The kids are going to be extremely hard off emotionally if she doesn't get it together and start trying to encourage a healthier relationship with their father (the whole messing about she did with only letting half of them visit at a time, for example, was awful of her), but I've always seen that she cares about the kids in a way that doesn't look like she sees them only as extensions of herself. 

I know that 'at least' is an awful thing to have to say when it comes to the rock and the hard place some children end up stuck between, but - as outsiders - we can never really know for sure what happens when the cameras are switched off. 

Jon was right, they were too young to have had that many kids at once. But then, I think it would be difficult for just about anyone to be the best parents they could be if they had that many children at once (or at all, tbh). Kudos to him, actually, for having the emotional maturity to admit to that. But they should have thought about that long, long ago (not that I'd wish any of the kids away, it's just y'know tragic in the same neglect-abuse-kinda-way having 19 kids is, at a certain point people should just stop, you feel me?)

I tend to think I have a pretty good gut when it comes to - I don't wanna say 'judging', but essentially that's what it is - sensing/feeling how capable and good a parent is for their children, and whilst Kate sets off a lot, lot, lot of alarm bells, there's something in the back of my mind about Jon that tells me that he's worse. 

But, of course, we don't know for sure, and I could be totally wrong. In any case I certainly do hope that I'm wrong and that Jon is a good, supportive, loving influence in their lives and if that's the case I hope he can get to see more of them...

I can try and be fair and logical in this or I can go with my gut. Thankfully, it's not up to me to make a decision on this. I guess I just hope that the kids do alright and that neither of their parents have any more children. 

*as the owner of a Staffie who'd probably lick someone to death before she ever even thought to bite them, the thought of dog fights and the hatred shown towards those breeds of pitbull by idiots who think it's bad dog rather than bad owner makes me feel ill. I have less of an emotional attachment to chickens. Both are morally wrong. I'm gonna go ahead, step off my soapbox, and be quiet now.

[SassyPants]

I think the Gosselins, particularly Kate, are just trying to keep their name in the media in order to remain relevant.

Get jobs, you 2 losers!

[mstee]

It's ironic that it's Hannah, since Kate always seemed to favor her over the other kids. I always thought she treated Alexis the worst; im surprised it wasn't her. Those poor kids. They must be so torn. 

[December]

What a depressing read. I feel bad for those poor kids. At least they'll all be old enough to move out in a few more years...

[Grimalkin]

     I would be heartbroken if my kid chose to live with my husband if we were divorced. It I would let her live with him, unless her safety were compromised. Especially at 12. Jon might get his act together if she did. I don't know. 

      I cannot imagine law enforcement just standing there watching.

 

[Palimpsest]

 I used to follow the Gosselins years ago but it got too depressing.  The family is so fucked up.  There was another incident of Hannah refusing to go home to Kate months ago, so it isn't the first time.

I did a bit of digging on this latest incident last night though.  I waded through far too many articles to link but Google is your friend too.  

Jon's lawyer has made a careful statement quoted here. http://hollywoodlife.com/2017/08/24/jon-gosselin-fighting-for-kids-kate-legal-custody-battle/

Quote

 

Jon is making a full-fledged effort to “do what is right,” according to his attorney, Kristen Doleva-Lecher, who spoke to E! News. 

While Kristen couldn’t share details on past or future court hearings, per a “Gag Order,” the attorney did express her client’s intentions in fighting Kate on the matter. “It should be known Jon has been aggressively and relentlessly fighting for his kids,” Kristen told the publication. “Jon is frustrated by recent events but will not be derailed in his efforts to do what is right.” The legal representative added, “The ability to co-parent is desirous in all custody matters, unfortunately in this case, it remains a theory, not a reality.”

 

It looks as though there were two separate incidents after an emergency meeting and order by the judge changing the custody over Hannah (not sure about any of the others) in early August.  Jon was assigned 50% physical custody pending yet another hearing.  

It seems that Jon is asking for full custody of Hannah (and possibly others) and Hannah wants to live with Jon.  Hannah is now 13 and is old enough to be allowed both to express her opinion about where she wants to live and to have the judge take her wishes under serious consideration.  

The judge will make the decision in the best interest of the child(ren).  And that has more to do with parenting skills, emotional support of the child, and willingness to cooperate with the other parent than the wealth and employment, or lack thereof, of either parent.  

The first incident was on August 15th.  Hannah refused to leave Jon's car and suffered an injury requiring a trip to the hospital when Kate tried to remove her physically.  Hannah went home with Kate. 

The second incident was Aug. 22 at an orthodontics office.  The police officers escorted Kate out of the building because she was being loud and disruptive.  Hannah went home with Jon.

At some point in the second incident the officers called the DA's office to clarify who had custody of Hannah on that day.  Apparently it was Jon.

Kate apparently objects to the new 50% custody arrangement.  She also seems to have been the one causing the second massive public argument which, if true, will not play well for her in court.  

I expect Kate is shit scared of losing physical (or legal) custody over Hannah or over any of her other little money makers.  It would really screw up her filming schedule.

Her show may or may not be on the brink of cancellation anyway.  I was really surprised that it even continued after it turned into Kate Plus Eight Minus One.

No news on poor Collin that I can see.  It is really unusual for a child to be in residential care for this long.  I hope he is OK.

I am biased on this one.  I think Kate is a raging and abusive mother dedicated to exploiting her children.  I think Jon is an irresponsible twit, but he always seemed the better more involved parent before the shit hit the fan and Kate filed for divorce.  Jon went off the rails back then (not unusual for an abused spouse) but seems relatively stable now.  He has had a series of relationships with other women over the years.  Big deal, he is divorced.  Kate has been unable to find a new partner.  Why are we not surprised.  Jon's had a series of jobs but keeps employed.  Not unusual given the recession.  Kate has pimped the children to TLC but hasn't found another job to support them herself.   

I hope to goodness all the children have good GALs assigned to them.  It is a mess.

 

 

 

 

[mstee]

I wonder what the dynamics are in the family that is making Hannah fight to live with her dad while the other kids either don't seem to want to or don't even have a relationship with him. 

[Jess]

I hate how some of the articles have quotes from an unnamed source saying it's not fair to Kate that Jon wants to swoop in for shared. It doesn't matter what's fair to Kate about the child(ren) and what's fair to them. With Colin out of the house maybe Kate has focused on a Hannah and Hannah wants. It's not uncommon for abusers to focus their abuse on one child. I am not saying that is the case here but it might be and there could be any number of reasons why it would best if Hannah and kate had space. 

[Seculardaisy]

Jon Gosselin has a gofundme page, he's raising money to battle Kate in court. So there's that...

http://www.theashleysrealityroundup.com/2017/09/12/jon-gosselin-sets-up-gofundme-page-to-raise-money-to-fight-against-ex-kate-for-custody-of-eight-kids/

[Gillyweed]

Personally, I feel like Jon would be the better parent to live with. Kate is crazy. Even on the show, when she knows she's being filmed, she is rude and obnoxious. Although Jon might seem "immature", he is at least trying to make a living and is dedicated to fighting for his kids. Additionally, to those saying that Jon jumps from woman to woman,when people are in the dating pool, it's pretty common to go on a few dates here and there. Besides, he's been dating a woman named Colleen for at least a year or two now.

[SilverBeach]

On 8/23/2017 at 5:45 PM, Escadora said:

I've always seen that she cares about the kids in a way that doesn't look like she sees them only as extensions of herself.

I don't know what show you were looking at, but I never saw this.

[Chocolatedefrauded]

Has anyone seen the articles about the McCoy (spelling?) kids turning 18 in the last year or so? Most are in college and I think 1 son joined the military. They kept out of the spotlight as much as possible & Dad worked a regular job. The kids had jobs as teens. Parents stayed married & focused on raising their kids to be decent people.

it can be done, just not by Jon and Kate!

[Escadora]

9 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

I don't know what show you were looking at, but I never saw this.

Perhaps I would have benefitted from being a tad more clear in my wording. What I meant was that after watching the episodes and reading discussions about the family, I formed the opinion that I had. It's entirely possible that my opinion was influenced heavily by people who just don't like Kate, but it's been over a year since I made that post and I haven't been keeping up to date with the Gosselins so I really don't have a strong opinion on anything to do with them anymore.  

That said, though, I do hope that I was wrong. All children deserve to have parents who love and cherish them.