Carlin and Evan 1: Front Hugging Before Courting

[Seculardaisy]

22 minutes ago, VineHeart137 said:

Carlin's man wrote her a song, y'all. 

Who's gonna take one for the team and give it a listen? I would but I have an Android... Darn...

I did. He has a funny lyric where he says “I prayed as a boy since I was like seven that god would send me a girl straight out of heaven.”

Definietly a fundie Bieber, he reminds me of 2000s Jesse McCartney.

It’s LONG, five minutes. If his courtship proposal song was five minutes long, imagine how long the song he inevitably sings at the wedding will be.

Luckily I had an odd balance left on an iTunes gift card lol.

[HereticHick]

18 minutes ago, Seculardaisy said:

I did. He has a funny lyric where he says “I prayed as a boy since I was like seven that god would send me a girl straight out of heaven” in it.

Luckily I had an odd balance left on an iTunes gift card lol.

Thank you for taking one for the team. Totally counts as a ministry, in my heathen eyes.

[Andrea]

Watching the episode now and my annoyance level is through the roof!!!! Yet i cant change the channel :/

[Mayluka]

The more I see of Carlin and Evan, the more it's cemented for me how immature and unready for marriage they are. Carlin is so egocentric and all about her own relationship. I saw a repeat episode from last season where they go to the adventure place in VA and all Carlin kept repeating was how her boyfriend was going and none of the others were. She also wrote that she was jealous on her sister's wedding day, as if that's a normal comment to make. During tonight's livestream, someone commented that the Tori/Bobby wedding was the best wedding ever, and Carlin interrupted "Until our wedding!" And if I hear Carlin refer to Evan as "my man" one more time, Rufus help me...

[Andrea]

All this is a bit much for a courtship, how in the heck do you top this if they get engaged?!?!?!?!?!  Ridiculous!

[nausicaa]

15 minutes ago, Mayluka said:

The more I see of Carlin and Evan, the more it's cemented for me how immature and unready for marriage they are. Carlin is so egocentric and all about her own relationship. I saw a repeat episode from last season where they go to the adventure place in VA and all Carlin kept repeating was how her boyfriend was going and none of the others were. She also wrote that she was jealous on her sister's wedding day, as if that's a normal comment to make. During tonight's livestream, someone commented that the Tori/Bobby wedding was the best wedding ever, and Carlin interrupted "Until our wedding!" And if I hear Carlin refer to Evan as "my man" one more time, Rufus help me...

All of this. Carlin is just so immature for her age. I do wonder if Kelly and Gil worry. I certainly worry about how they are going to be once the razzle dazzle of the wedding has faded and they have to settle into more spartan circumstances than they lived under when living at home. And I really can't imagine them dealing with a newborn. 

[WiseGirl]

Wait, so now there will be another wannabe musician in the family?

[VineHeart137]

11 minutes ago, WiseGirl said:

Wait, so now there will be another wannabe musician in the family?

In the live video leghumpers were already requesting that Lawson and Evan do a collaboration. 

[erunerune]

If BUB were Pride and Prejudice, Carlin would be Lydia.

[JermajestyDuggar]

23 minutes ago, erunerune said:

If BUB were Pride and Prejudice, Carlin would be Lydia.

So I guess that means Evan is Wickham? Seems about right. 

[just_ordinary]

I wonder how Gil and Kelly deal with this. Courtship means an engagement is not far away. Do they secretly hope it ends like Nathan’s? Did they decide not to interfere because they didn’t want to deal with Carlin’s disappointment? Do they hope, once she is married she isn’t their problem anymore? Her behaviour is not painting the picture of the humble daughter those fundies are desperate to raise.

[JordynDarby5]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

So I guess that means Evan is Wickham? Seems about right. 

Maybe for now. But I could see them both ending up more like Mrs. Bennet. Loud, dramatic, I could even see both dramatically taking to their room too.   

[Hisey]

13 hours ago, HereticHick said:

Like, Carlin, like, sounds so, like, mature in that video. Like, OMG.

It's sad the way their network is basically using these young kids, who are far too immature to know what's happening.

From the network's perspective, the marriage of two pretty young people is great for ratings. The Bates have a slew of young adults, one after the other, anxious to get married. It's a great setup for the network. Carlin is just the next in line. 

If BUB did not exist, I think Gil and Kelly would find it much easier to tell Carlin to wait. But since there is a show, there are staged, elaborate courtship proposals, episodes involving cake shopping and dresses, and tons of other things that are enormously exciting to an immature girl like Carlin. She is chomping at the bit to get these things, especially since she's watched her sisters experience them.

It goes without saying that a courtship would begin with a lot less fanfare if there was no show. It would be more like Evan asking Gil if it was OK, and then checking with Carlin. "Scavenger hunt courtship proposals" are clearly something designed by the producers. They sound stupid anyway. Why would anyone think they are romantic?

So the show is starting to have a toxic effect on the Bates family, as it did for the Duggars. While I detest the beliefs of both these families, I can see how within their circles, some couples can lead relatively happy lives. I think JB and Michelle were happy in their early years, for example. However, reality tv seems to be a toxic drug that is very damaging to families.

[OhNoNike]

Is there a thread on the Stewarts somewhere?  I can tell the ages of his sisters.  Are just two married?

[3SecondSideHugger]

6 hours ago, Hisey said:

It's sad the way their network is basically using these young kids, who are far too immature to know what's happening.

From the network's perspective, the marriage of two pretty young people is great for ratings. The Bates have a slew of young adults, one after the other, anxious to get married. It's a great setup for the network. Carlin is just the next in line. 

If BUB did not exist, I think Gil and Kelly would find it much easier to tell Carlin to wait. But since there is a show, there are staged, elaborate courtship proposals, episodes involving cake shopping and dresses, and tons of other things that are enormously exciting to an immature girl like Carlin. She is chomping at the bit to get these things, especially since she's watched her sisters experience them.

It goes without saying that a courtship would begin with a lot less fanfare if there was no show. It would be more like Evan asking Gil if it was OK, and then checking with Carlin. "Scavenger hunt courtship proposals" are clearly something designed by the producers. They sound stupid anyway. Why would anyone think they are romantic?

So the show is starting to have a toxic effect on the Bates family, as it did for the Duggars. While I detest the beliefs of both these families, I can see how within their circles, some couples can lead relatively happy lives. I think JB and Michelle were happy in their early years, for example. However, reality tv seems to be a toxic drug that is very damaging to families.

IDK I am in my 20s and the amount of over the top, cheesy wedding proposals amongst people I know I pretty frequent.  I’m talking-fly to Europe with a secret code in a lock and hunting for a key to meet at a location where your entire family is waiting and BS like that. I always wonder that now, if people do it more because of social media? And these are normal people, not celebs 

[Marly]

I just read this on the Bates' family blog, regarding Evan's courship proposal:
""I kind of was thinking that it should have ended as an engagement," says Kelly. "It was so special, I'm thinking, 'Give her the ring, we'll just all cry right now.'" Gil, on the other hand, isn't so excited about that idea." 
It doesn't say why Gil wouldn't like the idea of engagement, but I did think it was striking that they mentioned that Gil doesn't want them engaged yet.
I thought it had been mentioned before in this thread or in another Bates' thread that Evan had asked Gil for permission to court Carlin somewhere earlier last year, and that Gil had said that Carlin wasn't ready for that yet? I think it is possible that Gil thinks Carlin isn't ready for marriage and everything that would entail. And considering their notions of marriage, procreation, and gender roles, I can definitely understand that. It would be so much better for Carlin if she was allowed to have alone time with Evan, if they would be allowed to live together without being married so they can get a real idea of what it is like to live together and have responsibilities towards each other, if they would be allowed to use contraception so they can experience living with each other and the responsibilities that come along with that before they add a much bigger responsibility into the mix ( - a baby). I think Carlin is very ready to move out, and considering her age that isn’t weird. I’d actually think it’d be good for her, and help her grow as a person. And if Carlin and Evan were a non-fundy couple, I could totally see them moving in together.
I can also imagine that Gil might not want them engaged to be married yet because he’s afraid Carlin is not be able to resist all the temptations of the outside world yet.

[Feministe9000]

49 minutes ago, 3SecondSideHugger said:

IDK I am in my 20s and the amount of over the top, cheesy wedding proposals amongst people I know I pretty frequent.  I’m talking-fly to Europe with a secret code in a lock and hunting for a key to meet at a location where your entire family is waiting and BS like that. I always wonder that now, if people do it more because of social media? And these are normal people, not celebs 

Agreed. I'm 26 and have seen a number of people I know the past few years stage crazy lavish over the top proposals, weddings, engagement parties, etc, gender baby reveals, baby showers, etc.
So honestly? It's the social media age, it's this generation and the one that comes right after (teenagers now).

But I have to say, watching Evan sing AT Carlin with audio turned off, is amazingly hilarious!!!!  I had a good chuckle. I wonder if he will do a song for the wedding, and then the first anniversary, and so on. It's gonna get old, especially with those chipmunk cheeks of his and cheesy grin ahahahahahahahha

Whatever we say about them though, Carlin was displaying real emotions in this moment. I saw her chin wobbling, genuine tears, and smiling and very happy eyes. For a girl who has never had a boyfriend before, this must be an absolute dream. I think about my previous relationships so far, and I had a guy sing me a song for homecoming when we were dating in highschool, that was almost 4 years before Carlin's age now. AND I had been "in the world", not tucked away surrounded by my mega family in the hills of TN in the Bible Belt. So I have to say....I feel for these girls in a way. Their overzealous behavior surrounding relationships and marriage, is understandable. They are like pressure cookers ready to pop off, ESPECIALLY when all their sisters around them are doing it in quick succession! In a group of siblings that size, adding strict upbringing and restrictions and supervision at all times, there has to be some jealousy and competition, comparison and wanting to reach the same milestones as each other. I think these dynamics are inevitable, particularly when you add a bit of extra money and TV/social media semi-fame.

But still, Carlin you sound like an immature brat congratulating your sister on her wedding day and then adding you are jealous.....keep your thoughts to yourself! Christ on a cracker!

 

[Seculardaisy]

36 minutes ago, Marly said:

I just read this on the Bates' family blog, regarding Evan's courship proposal:
""I kind of was thinking that it should have ended as an engagement," says Kelly. "It was so special, I'm thinking, 'Give her the ring, we'll just all cry right now.'" Gil, on the other hand, isn't so excited about that idea." 
It doesn't say why Gil wouldn't like the idea of engagement, but I did think it was striking that they mentioned that Gil doesn't want them engaged yet.
I thought it had been mentioned before in this thread or in another Bates' thread that Evan had asked Gil for permission to court Carlin somewhere earlier last year, and that Gil had said that Carlin wasn't ready for that yet? I think it is possible that Gil thinks Carlin isn't ready for marriage and everything that would entail. And considering their notions of marriage, procreation, and gender roles, I can definitely understand that. It would be so much better for Carlin if she was allowed to have alone time with Evan, if they would be allowed to live together without being married so they can get a real idea of what it is like to live together and have responsibilities towards each other, if they would be allowed to use contraception so they can experience living with each other and the responsibilities that come along with that before they add a much bigger responsibility into the mix ( - a baby). I think Carlin is very ready to move out, and considering her age that isn’t weird. I’d actually think it’d be good for her, and help her grow as a person. And if Carlin and Evan were a non-fundy couple, I could totally see them moving in together.
I can also imagine that Gil might not want them engaged to be married yet because he’s afraid Carlin is not be able to resist all the temptations of the outside world yet.

It was Bobby and Tori that Gil said weren’t ready to court because Bobby wanted to start courting Tori as soon as he met her.

I think Gil in general wants the girls to court before becoming engaged, I don’t necessarily think it’s a Carlin and Evan thing that he was against. He just likes playing up that whole “dad protecting his princesses” persona.

I thought it was super interesting that after Carlin and Evan started courting on last nights episode they said they could now finally hold hands. They’ve been front hugging for a year but hand holding is the problem? No wonder we call it hand sex on FJ.

And you’re right, if Carlin and Evan were allowed to have more agency over their relationship model they would be able to grow together without the rush to get married.

[Tangy Bee]

In the outside world there would be less pressure to get engaged. 

[Seculardaisy]

7 minutes ago, Tangy Bee said:

In the outside world there would be less pressure to get engaged. 

Absolutely, I mean take Josie for example, she JUST turned 18 and she is hoping to be married before the year is up.

It’s insane.

[mydoggoskeeper]

I think Carlin will have a pinstagram heavy blingy wedding but Josie will have one of the more beautiful fundie weddings we have seen a la the Roberts daughters weddings. Casual, little bit country, little bit boho.  

[Hisey]

2 hours ago, 3SecondSideHugger said:

IDK I am in my 20s and the amount of over the top, cheesy wedding proposals amongst people I know I pretty frequent.  I’m talking-fly to Europe with a secret code in a lock and hunting for a key to meet at a location where your entire family is waiting and BS like that. I always wonder that now, if people do it more because of social media? And these are normal people, not celebs 

Maybe, because when I was in my 20s I don't know anyone who did that! I do think it's social media. 

1 hour ago, Seculardaisy said:

Absolutely, I mean take Josie for example, she JUST turned 18 and she is hoping to be married before the year is up.

It’s insane.

It is insane, but really, what else does Josie have to look forward to? I doubt she wants to continue doing her family's laundry and cooking, and I don't think she'd be allowed to work full time in cosmetology. Is it even possible to work full time in that field in rural Tennessee?

[ColeJo]

17 minutes ago, Hisey said:

It is insane, but really, what else does Josie have to look forward to? I doubt she wants to continue doing her family's laundry and cooking, and I don't think she'd be allowed to work full time in cosmetology. Is it even possible to work full time in that field in rural Tennessee?

I think it is definitely possible if you have a good client base. A lady at my church is a cosmetologist and she converted her garage into a salon (well it has the sink, chair, bench, and a handicapped accessible bathroom). Where I live is a bit more rural than Tennessee and she manages to stay busy. If Josie is into that kind of thing she would have more flexibility which is a huge thing in those families.

[Seculardaisy]

1 hour ago, Hisey said:

Maybe, because when I was in my 20s I don't know anyone who did that! I do think it's social media. 

It is insane, but really, what else does Josie have to look forward to? I doubt she wants to continue doing her family's laundry and cooking, and I don't think she'd be allowed to work full time in cosmetology. Is it even possible to work full time in that field in rural Tennessee?

I fully agree with you and even understand why she and the other fundie daughters want to get married. However, it is still maddening. 

If these young adults were allowed agency over their decisions and relationships, they would be able to date a boy without feeling like marriage is the only end game. In order to be alone with, kiss, hold hands, or have sex with a man you have to marry him. Yet those are some of the most essential parts of getting to truly know a person. If you wind up married and realize this person isn’t who they said they were on your chaperoned dates, you’re screwed for life because divorce isn’t allowed.

They meet a person they think is cute and in order to have any intimacy with that person (even just alone time to talk) they have to get married at 18 or 19 years old.

I know I’m really beating a dead horse here but it’s just so heartbreaking that these kids have grown up to think this way.

I mean Lawson and the other grown up children have to live at home until they get married. Nathan may work in a different state but he still considers the Bates home as his main household and home. It’s absurd.

I mean when I was a teen I broke up with a boyfriend simply because he was a bad kisser. Was it frivolous? Of course but I was young and knew I didn’t want to kiss him again.

I’m not saying you can’t meet the love of your life as a teen. I’m now married to the guy who got me pregnant at 17! But nobody told us we had to stay together and we didn’t get married for years after we had our first child. We are together because we are in love and not because it was our only option.

[candygirl200413]

It's honestly so mind blowing to me how they are able to take some of the photos featured in the episode (foreheads together), but omg if we kissed we are basically having sex which is NOT allowed. 

Also I was watching this late ( I try to watch it when my family is asleep or not home) and my mom caught the end and she was just like "if you don't shut this crap off!!" (it was Evan singing) and I was like it's almost over even though it was highly painful!

I just drank two rather large glasses of wine and I'm feeling tipsy but this whole courtship is just highly heartbreaking cause I don't think she'll do well post marriage. I'm actually kind of surprised Gil ended up being like eh eff it because I feel like he can tell she'll be miserable or just not about it when they get married.