Seewalds 24 - Bought the House from Grandma

[Carm_88]

52 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

This brings up a good question, at what age do kids start having toxic beliefs? At what age would people in this cult start telling me I'm a heathen and going to hell?

I don't know. That's honestly something struggle with. At what age do they become responsible for the shit that they are saying? While they are still under their parents' roof, it's hard to tell what they truly believe. Once they start spewing shit on instagram, I'm pretty much done. But, I don't know if there is a good answer.

[singsingsing]

25 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

I don't know. That's honestly something struggle with. At what age do they become responsible for the shit that they are saying? While they are still under their parents' roof, it's hard to tell what they truly believe. Once they start spewing shit on instagram, I'm pretty much done. But, I don't know if there is a good answer.

I think it depends. Like once they hit an age where they can start more or less articulately expressing these views, they're always responsible to some extent for what they're saying. But depending on how young they are, I have a lot more patience with them. You can always hope they'll grow up and change. The patience slowly ticks down as they enter adulthood and continue to spout the b.s. 

I have much more patience for some of them than others, too, depending on their circumstances. For example, Sarah Maxwell is a woman in her mid-30s but when has she ever had an opportunity to be exposed to differing viewpoints or to think critically about her beliefs? I have a lot less patience with someone like Derick Dillard, who's approaching 30, went to a secular university, traveled and lived abroad, worked outside the home, etc.

[HumbleJillyMuffin]

13 hours ago, Fluffy14 said:

Jeeez I lost interest in the  babies ages ago and don't give two hoots about them. Omg. They are just babies. Everybody and their dog has babies.

I don't think I even know Anna'so kids names. I already honestly forgot Jill's new babies name.

Spurgeon is kinda cute but I have seen cuter, Henry is just there. I have a thought though that Spurgeon while cute now might turn into one of those ugly kids. You know cute baby ugly kid Syndrome? 

As far as Jessa enjoying Motherhood?  Sure. At least she does in front of the camera.  Somebody says up thread she knows how to brand herself and her kids . Yep.

What someone posts online can be far different than reality. She might like them little and then when they become howlers not so much. 

It is beyond me why anyone of those Duggar kids want any kids and actually enjoy them.  

Let's be real here. Trapped in a house with squalling infants , poopy , vomitting , teething infants.  Squealing drooling , whiny snotty , bed wetting fevered toddlers, tattletelling,bored, dirty feet, salami licking,  endlessly joking ,  bickering middles who touch all your stuff ,break  and lose everything.  Know it all, hormonal teenagers,who don't stop complaining yah, why do they want that?

Endless days, of chicken pox, flu's, colds, allergies, braces, periods galore. 

I had 4 kids. I love them so much, but when they were growing up I wondered what did I do this for? I was the youngest of two kids, loved babies and toddlers, and couldn't wait for children.

Jessa surely loves her boys. But come on she knows what's coming down the pipe. And I am sure she has a short fuse. Frick that fuse was burnt out by the time she was 13.

She must have private thoughts that envy others education and freedoms. Money and fame can't fix everything. 

I love how you think. I can tolerate other people's kids, but I don't want any myself and have never been the type to think kids or babies were particularly cute or whatever. My boyfriend's family goes psycho over his 3 year old nephew, and while he's a funny and clever kid, if I never hear another "Roman is such a good dancer" or "Look at Roman's skinny jeans" from my boyfriend's Dad again, it will be too soon. It's just too much for me. I adore my two nephews but we've just never been a family that fawns over small children to the point where others want to hit us over the head with a baseball bat. 

And your list of illnesses and crap makes me thankful to not have to deal with that stuff. My cats are more than enough for me. 

[Drala]

 

What surprises me about the Duggar kids is that there dosn't appear to be an intellectually curious one in the bunch.  Maybe it's the effect of blanket rraining, except not all were subjected to this.  Where's the kid who loves to read?  Even limiting their exposure to the Bible should provoke questions as simple as where did Cain's wife come from?  Yeah, the toxic environment of the Digger cult squelches curiosity, but I've seen bright kids raised in cults push intellectual boundaries at great personal cost because it's in their DNA to question and explore.  The Duggars just seem to be a dull, unremarkable bunch.  

[justoneoftwo]

Is it really that unremarkable?  What percentage of kids raised in cults question like that?  

Also didn't Janna seem to question at one point saying evolution makes sense but its not in the Bible?  That left me with the impression she was trying so hard not to question, and you can force it out of yourself.

[Drala]

37 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

Is it really that unremarkable?  What percentage of kids raised in cults question like that?  

Also didn't Janna seem to question at one point saying evolution makes sense but its not in the Bible?  That left me with the impression she was trying so hard not to question, and you can force it out of yourself.

 An intellectually gifted person can quit questioning only to a point before they must give up fighting against who they are or go crazy.  It's kind of like being predominately homosexual.  Nature in one way or another will eventuality out most, if not all, with a strong disposition to same-sex attraction. 

I often wonder if Jana is smart or of average intelligence. In either case she must repress her natural curiosity, but if she is naturally disposed to a high level of intellectual curiosity, it would take a great deal more psychic energy to repress her mental processes.  

[Nikedagain?]

3 hours ago, Fluffy14 said:

For the Duggar girls I just can't understand how a continuous cycle of infants and children would be something to look forward to. 

There was never a break, ever without a small baby or child in their lives.  

Don't get me wrong I adored and do adore my young/grown kids, but there were days that I never thought the barfing, and diapers would end.

I personally just can't see how a next 20 years of babies would be appealing, after growing up with them 24/7.

That is one of the biggest reason's I am happy Jinger and Jeremy have not had children yet. Life can be so full of things other than an infant and you can do things that you can't do with small children. Right now Jinger has an empty plate and she can fill it and feast off it anyway she desires. 

I just think Michelle was a terrible terrible parent for making her girls responsible for babies. I never got a full night sleep for like 8 years. How can you do that to your kids?  How can Jana have to deal with a brother who pees in her bed every night and be sleeping in the next room without feeling guilty. 

How can Michelle know there is a colicky, teething infant in the next room and have a 12,14, 16 yr old deal with it when she lays in bed sleeping?  IF SHE wanted to care for those babies she would have kept them in her room or made a nursery to house an infant beside her room that was her responsibility.

I was so worried and stressed over my kids. I just don't understand at all the pass-off of responsibility.  And then to cunningly be planning another conception.

These things BOGGLE my mind. If you had a mother strung out on drugs or just plain negligent, who left her babies with the children who were a little older, and that child took on responsibilities day and night, how is THAT any different? Those kids would be swooped up and taken by social services asap. 

So what's the difference aside from the drugs, what's the difference between what Michelle did and a negligent mother in another scenario? This is why I cannot honestly see these Duggar girls enjoying motherhood as much as we like to think they do.

And WHAT THE HELL is WRONG with MICHELLE? She must be one of the MOST SELFISH women alive. Who does that, except for really really really dysfunctional women? Who only think of themselves?  That is the bottom line isn't it?

you can't see me, but I am bowing down to your post. I'm not worthy. Truly!

1 hour ago, HumbleJillyMuffin said:

My boyfriend's family goes psycho over his 3 year old nephew, and while he's a funny and clever kid, if I never hear another "Roman is such a good dancer" or "Look at Roman's skinny jeans" from my boyfriend's Dad again, it will be too soon. It's just too much for me

I must say, I'm totally intrigued by 3 year old Roman and his skinny jeans! 

And yesss! Cats cats cats.

[OyToTheVey]

2 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

I don't know. That's honestly something struggle with. At what age do they become responsible for the shit that they are saying? While they are still under their parents' roof, it's hard to tell what they truly believe. Once they start spewing shit on instagram, I'm pretty much done. But, I don't know if there is a good answer.

I feel like it depends on the child. This is an extreme example but my best friends 5 year old has Aspergers. He's so brutally honest it's scary. It's causing my friend a lot of distress. Plus if something bothers him, he has no problem punching someone or screaming at them. Yes he's still very little and has a disability but it's a really big issue. He's the kind of child that needs repeated reminders that words hurt and we don't hit others. It's hourly with him not even daily. He's super smart too. So he knows the rules and he's academically advanced for his age but can't relate to kids his age.

On a more 'average' basis, my niece is 9. She gets her iPad taken away if she says something. She knows she's responsible for her own actions. Kids are kids but I feel like a lot of them know wrong from right.

On an adult level, I agree with @singsingsing I have more patience with Sarah Maxwell because of her circumstance than someone like Derick Dillard who had all the opportunities to break free. 

[Lizzybet]

17 hours ago, Fluffy14 said:

 

Spurgeon is kinda cute but I have seen cuter, Henry is just there. I have a thought though that Spurgeon while cute now might turn into one of those ugly kids. You know cute baby ugly kid Syndrome? 

As far as Jessa enjoying Motherhood?  Sure. At least she does in front of the camera.  Somebody says up thread she knows how to brand herself and her kids . Yep.

She must have private thoughts that envy others education and freedoms. Money and fame can't fix everything. 

I agree with the quoted- all of it.

I got downvote[s?] for saying Spurgeon wasn't THAT cute. I think he's cuter now, but looks too much like JB, to me, to be adorable. The other baby boy is similar looking, IMO.

 

 

[calimojo]

1 hour ago, Drala said:

 

What surprises me about the Duggar kids is that there dosn't appear to be an intellectually curious one in the bunch.  Maybe it's the effect of blanket rraining, except not all were subjected to this.  Where's the kid who loves to read?  Even limiting their exposure to the Bible should provoke questions as simple as where did Cain's wife come from?  Yeah, the toxic environment of the Digger cult squelches curiosity, but I've seen bright kids raised in cults push intellectual boundaries at great personal cost because it's in their DNA to question and explore.  The Duggars just seem to be a dull, unremarkable bunch.  

I agree with this.  I mean, they certainly haven't allowed that kind of intellectual curiosity be filmed anyway.   Here is what I think:  If one of the kids showed intellectual curiosity about  somethings, it would be ok.  Perhaps that is how JD became a pilot?  And Jill may well have shown intellectual curiosity about  reproduction, child birth, etc.  But I think we all know that if any of those kids had asked any kind of questions that challenges the belief system, even if just asked innocently,  That they are disciplined or squelched in some way.  I do not think that this kind of curiosity would be tolerated, let alone encouraged. 

Not sure if it was on this thread or another one, but I agree that it would be interesting to 'study' the duggars or other fundies.  I think this is why I watch the show, because human behavior, especially when it comes to cults has always fascinated me.  I am always curious about how people get drawn in and how they learn elaborate strategies to rationalize what is clearly  irrational.    The Duggars are especially interesting in this way, because  they  have been influential beyond their cult.  With most other cults,  normal people can look at the cult and realize it is crazy.  But with the Duggars,  people just turn a blind eye to the cultish aspects of their lives. 

(please note that individually the duggars aren't all that interesting.  Their personalities are mostly dull, but it is more the concept of the duggars and their social impact that is interesting.)

 

 

[feministxtian]

I am an only...and I resent it. When I was taking care of my mother, there was nobody to share the load with. Now there's nobody to share the memories with. That's why I knew I wanted more than one. I really wish I'd had a sibling that lived. But, that's now neither here nor there...but that's just my opinion. 

[louisa05]

35 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

I am an only...and I resent it. When I was taking care of my mother, there was nobody to share the load with. Now there's nobody to share the memories with. That's why I knew I wanted more than one. I really wish I'd had a sibling that lived. But, that's now neither here nor there...but that's just my opinion. 

Everyone I've known who has had a parent who needed care due to age or illness has been in a situation where only one of the siblings would do the work anyway. My brother barely helped when our father was ill and never helps my mother now. Mr. 05 and I do it all. A friend of ours had to care for her dying mother while she was pregnant, had a toddler, and was working while her able bodied adult sister who LIVED with her parents did nothing. And I am positive that when the time comes, Mr. 05's sister will devote herself to never lifting a finger for their parents while criticizing how we handle things non-stop. 

A sibling is no guarantee that you can share the caregiving load. 

[HumbleJillyMuffin]

1 hour ago, Nikedagain? said:

 

I must say, I'm totally intrigued by 3 year old Roman and his skinny jeans! 

And yesss! Cats cats cats.

Spoiler

Trying to make this hidden contents from unregistered visitors.

The skinny jeans are orange and purchased at Walmart when the kid was visiting Grandma and Grandpa in Wisconsin over Fourth of July. Grandpa thought they were SO cute he squealed in delight when he pulled them out of the dryer and insisted on showing the jeans off to us. In a similar story, they took Roman to Walmart for the skinny jeans and of course took him to the toy aisle for a toy. Afterward they stopped at Piggly Wiggly to which Roman asked, "Where's the toy aisle?". Yes, I'll be listening to this story for years lol. 

[justoneoftwo]

3 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

Everyone I've known who has had a parent who needed care due to age or illness has been in a situation where only one of the siblings would do the work anyway. My brother barely helped when our father was ill and never helps my mother now. Mr. 05 and I do it all. A friend of ours had to care for her dying mother while she was pregnant, had a toddler, and was working while her able bodied adult sister who LIVED with her parents did nothing. And I am positive that when the time comes, Mr. 05's sister will devote herself to never lifting a finger for their parents while criticizing how we handle things non-stop. 

A sibling is no guarantee that you can share the caregiving load. 

It's not, but not having one is a guarantee of not having help.  My biggest hope is that my sister will be there emotionally for me after the parents are gone. I'm sure I'll end up doing most of the care giving while they are alive.

[victoriasponge]

1 hour ago, feministxtian said:

I am an only...and I resent it. When I was taking care of my mother, there was nobody to share the load with. Now there's nobody to share the memories with. That's why I knew I wanted more than one. I really wish I'd had a sibling that lived. But, that's now neither here nor there...but that's just my opinion. 

I'm an only and so is my boyfriend. There are parts of it I think I 'miss' - being an Aunt would be nice, and having that wider family bond, but I've also come to accept that my version of a sibling bond is an imaginary one. There's no guarantee that it would be so, though obviously I could've hoped and it may well have been the absolute best sibling relationship ever. I know it'll be hard when either of our parents end up sick or injured, especially because they're in totally different parts of the country from one another, but it's also the situation I'm in. Nothing's perfect, I suppose, I'm just trying to be thankful for what I have (which, incidentally, is a mother who is also a friend... the Duggars could only dream), but there are always going to be parts of it I dislike. I know my boyfriend wants multiple for this reason, though I've only ever seen myself having one so it'll be something we really have to discuss.

I'm sorry you had nobody to share the load with, I know it must have been tough. It's so difficult caring for family at the best of times. I send my warmest wishes to you that you remember the good times and are safe and well. Illness, ageing, and loss in families is always difficult - we're going through it with my grandmother at the moment, and having my parents and SO to lean on makes it so much easier, I'd hate to have to do it alone, you're strong in my book.

[JordynDarby5]

42 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

Everyone I've known who has had a parent who needed care due to age or illness has been in a situation where only one of the siblings would do the work anyway. My brother barely helped when our father was ill and never helps my mother now. Mr. 05 and I do it all. A friend of ours had to care for her dying mother while she was pregnant, had a toddler, and was working while her able bodied adult sister who LIVED with her parents did nothing. And I am positive that when the time comes, Mr. 05's sister will devote herself to never lifting a finger for their parents while criticizing how we handle things non-stop. 

A sibling is no guarantee that you can share the caregiving load. 

That has always been the case in my family. Its amazing how relatives disappear when someone is seriously ill and needs to be take care of. There's also the siblings that you really don't want to help because their more likely to not be reachable or go through their parent's pockets and wallet while "helping" and helping themselves other things in the house. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

I'm an only and caring for my dad who lives 200 miles away and refuses to consider moving away from his dangerous, dying, and mostly empty town. There's no way we could uproot ourselves and move there - there are no jobs to be had.

My mother dropped dead completely unexpectedly just over three years ago, and my dad's health has been declining since then. Mr.Slytherin has been an angel and a champ, going to visit/stay with my dad every-other-weekend or so. I'm so very tired of all the travel, but I'm also thankful my dad is still around. I wish I had someone to take over sometimes, but again - I know too many people who do all the parent-care work, even though they have siblings. And having a sibling is no guarantee of a close relationship. Mr.Slytherin and his brother don't speak much, if ever.

[OyToTheVey]

I'm an only. My cousin is also an only. But when our grandmother got sick. He visited her twice in like 3 years. I've learned that having someone there doesn't actually mean they're there. We were raised almost like siblings. Lived in the same building most of my life(he's older). But I know that if I need something, it's my best friend that I can call. My cousin won't show up. My best friend is also an only. We kinda formed a sister bond. Her kids call me Aunt.

[2manyKidzzz]

Family dynamics are quite the thing. I am the oldest of eight. Mental illness, alcoholism and just plain old nastiness. I mean really. Too much fun to describe!!!

[nst]

I am an only and I know it all lands on me when it will. 

It's fine 

I can deal - I will have to 

[WiseGirl]

I'm one of two. Old brother lives five minutes away from my parents. I live two hours away (which involves the delight of NYC area traffic). Guess who has been going to all the doctor appointments/parent-care work? Siblings are no guarantee of splitting parent-care. Thank goodness for friends who help me manage the home front when I have to go to my parents.

[Henk12]

I'm sure there are a few Duggars with questions. But they've been raised in a cult so those questions might actually be an uneasy feeling in their heart that they will either suppress forever or eventually acknowledge. They might not be able to even articulate those questions because of the trauma and neglect they've endured. If you get slapped every time you crawl off the blanket, you're not going to even want to crawl off the blanket eventually. 

[Stormy]

I'll my best friend is and only, who, at 26, is dealing with ailing parents almost on her own. Her parents had her in their late thirties/early forties, but not by choice; they desperately wanted children in their youth, but had given up after numerous miscarriages (and dealing with an unsympathetic fertility doc). Then her mom fell pregnant randomly just before she turned forty (not odd nowadays, I know) and my friend became their miracle child that they doted on.

When my friend was in her early-twenties, her mother sustained brain damage after a serious illness. Her father, who's very stubborn, never really accepted their fate and isn't in a good frame of mind to properly help his wife (he also has a slew of health problems of his own due to smoking and poor diet). My friend and her fiance commute hours every weekend to check in on them; she's frustrated that they're not only refusing to move closer to her, but they're insisting she come live with them in their run-down, isolated small town and take over the house when they're gone (the fiance is welcome to stay, too). What's worse is that they're surrounded by aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. that literally live down the street and who don't do jack squat to help. The only person in the vicinity who does anything is my friend's 90-year-old grandma, who's obviously limited in what kind of help she can give her disabled daughter and her aging son-in-law.

Alternatively, my parents are both one of four children born purposefully (mostly) to young parents and neither of them are close to their siblings, save for my mom and her brother. Some of them aren't on speaking terms. So yeah, it's all a crapshoot.

[2manyKidzzz]

Yes, funny how being family is no insurance of decent relationships. Funny that. 

[SassyPants]

9 hours ago, Fluffy14 said:

Those girls have to be hiding resentment...repressed maybe, but it will bubble to the surface. The more exposure they get to the real world with peers their own age and younger they will soon realize how enslaved they were to Michelle.

When they meet other families with a small ratio of children where a mother can do all the parenting they will realize how unfair/wrong their upbringing was. 

Jinger for sure will be seeing it and hearing it from Jeremy. They are hanging out with regular evangelicals in LA where people are career minded, with small families, etc. Jinger will be exposed to the benefits of small family living.  AND she will see that they can love the LORD, the LORd can be the center of their lives. Women can work, and do ministry, and women are  not only called to be wives and mothers , but ,without the impending doom of making God angry.

IT is NOT the ONLY calling for women.

 

Yep...out of 19 kids, there will be one or more that look around and realize that they can be faithful, good, decent JESUS loving people and hold jobs, believe in education, sports, friends, frontal hugs and dating!!!!