Real Life Fundie Encounters - Part 4

[EowynW]

My fundie wedding updates. I need alcohol. 

 Y'all know our dresses got approved. They are almost identical to the very first dress we bought and tried on. They saw the pictures and approved it. So, bless him, my scatterbrained brother forgot to tell the mother of the bride that this was a third type of dress and we didn't just rebuy the first dress. So it came out accidentally when my mom was there for the shower and the mother of the bride got really angry and said how they didn't appreciate us "intentionally deceiving them like that." 

The parents of the bride are complete assholes and my mom is seriously wondering if one of them doesn't have a personality disorder. They had her in tears multiple times. 

The bride is very shy, and completely overshadowed by her mother. From sweet from what I've seen. I hope she won't turn into her mother  

I'm seriously considering having a talk with my brother and reminding him that while it's okay to want to make the bride happy, and cater to her family, he really cannot sit there while our mother is railroaded by the brides family either. 

Wedding is in TWO WEEKS I asked my brother about birth control last night and he says "oh she's going to just learn charting and do that." Now I have nothing against charting or NFP done PROPERLY because it does work for many women that I know, but dear God NO NO NO NO  you don't just "learn charting" in two weeks!!! It takes several months atleast to get the swing of things down, with qualified help overseeing your charts + it's always advised to use protection at first! Plus, for myself and many women I know, the stress of getting married and moving threw our cycles off anyways making charting impossible for several months if we had been using that method. It was useless to bring those facts up because "well it's what she wants to do." Imma gonna start looking at baby blanket patterns now because they'll be a pregnancy announcement before the end of the year  a

 

 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

@EowynW  i'm gonna throw this out there having seen it waaaay too many times and it never, ever ends well. 

Talk to your brother. Do. It. Now.

Your brother needs to stand up for your all's family now and always going forward. He should never ever let his bride or her family rag on/ trash talk you all.  He absolutely should NOT let them make your mother cry several times in one conversation.  That is being disrespectful to your mother/family and by extension if he lets it happen he's agreeing with and giving them permission to do it.  If it's bad now, imagine what it  will be like after the wedding and people are no longer on their best behavior.

Use fundie logic and reasoning for this:  Talk to your brother and tell him that as a Man and head of his house -- the bride's headship as it were --  he has to politely and nicely, but firmly, tell her that that behavior will not be tolerated ever.  That as head of their little family he expects her and her family to be as gracious to you all as your family is to hers.  That this issue is not up for discussion and if it happens again and he sees it or even hears about it, he'll have words with the person who did it.

IME I've seen the rudeness, put-downs and trash talk ratchet up to horrible levels and morph into isolating the person  (usually an easy going man like your brother) from his family.  Every holiday/ birthday/ special occasion/ anniversary/ Sunday dinner, etc, etc. etc is spent with the bride's family.  The bride's mother is regarded as the only grandmother and monopolizes the grandchildren. The bride's family intervenes in the marriage, relationship, child raising, etc.

This almost always happens when the bride's mother is a very.....um....forceful woman who used to getting her own way in everything. Unfortunately I cannot think of a single instance where the bride didn't become like her mother -- because that was the example she had for being a  wife.

You might also talk to your brother about NFP/charting -- and let him know that there is absolutely no way the bride can have all that in place in 2 weeks.  And that unless he wants, and is prepared for a baby in 9 months and 1 day.  He should consider using BC temporarily  (or for as long as he wants).  He is after all the head of the house and as such he gets to decide.  Lori always says a wife has to do what the hub says even if she doesn't agree.

Personally, instinct tells me the bride doesn't intend to use NFP, charting or anything at all.  That her goal is a baybee a year, starting now.  She is young -- think 10-12 children.

Has she quit her teaching job so she can be a SAHW in anticipation of getting pregnant immediately?

Edited to add:  You're his older sister who loves him and wants the best for his life.  I know you don't want him mired in financial struggle with too many children to support, too many bills and working 2-3 jobs trying to make ends meet and make it work.

If you don't look out for him, no one else is going to.

[EowynW]

@Red Hair, Black Dress I have had the talk about cycles and birth control and etc but since charting is "what she's most comfortable with that's what it's going to be." So oh well. I did try. It is also hard to be an influence there because my fundie family is all "god gives every woman the desire to be a mom so don't you dare take that away from her and an oops baby won't be bad at all in the confines of marriage" so it's incredibly frustrating. 

The bride doesn't trash my family, I do think she's not bad, just painfully shy. But her parents are freaking steamrollers so I am going to have that talk. 

[clueliss]

So I work (but do not live) in a small town.  Last week on a 10 am walk (I leave the office, walk ~ 1.5 blocks to 'downtown' go around the square (twice) and come back to the office.  Takes me about 15 minutes.  I noticed in front of one of the junk thrift stores that I pass the signs below.  Someone wants to save our souls rather than pander the wares inside.  Because previously the store had items for sale in the window.  (making me wonder if it changed owners).

So I took photos for FJ Show & Tell enjoyment.

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

sorry the wording on this one didn't come out.  

1

 

 

[SoSoNosy]

What does the bride's mother care, if it's the first or fourteenth dress?  How is that deceiving anybody?  I'm confused.

[Audrey2]

On May 6, 2018 at 8:19 AM, EowynW said:

Y'all know our dresses got approved. They are almost identical to the very first dress we bought and tried on. They saw the pictures and approved it. So, bless him, my scatterbrained brother forgot to tell the mother of the bride that this was a third type of dress and we didn't just rebuy the first dress. So it came out Wedding is in TWO WEEKS I asked my brother about birth control last night and he says "oh she's going to just learn charting and do that." Now I have nothing against charting or NFP done PROPERLY because it does work for many women that I know, but dear God NO NO NO NO  you don't just "learn charting" in two weeks!!! It takes several months atleast to get the swing of things down, with qualified help overseeing your charts + it's always advised to use protection at first! Plus, for myself and many women I know, the stress of getting married and moving threw our cycles off anyways making charting impossible for several months if we had been using that method. It was useless to bring those facts up because "well it's what she wants to do." Imma gonna start looking at baby blanket patterns now because they'll be a pregnancy announcement before the end of the year.

 

 

I know I'm mixing threads here, but I wonder if not being 100% on her charting or having a wonkier schedule is what led to Alyssa Bates Webster's baby number 3. I wonder if the Bates (and Duggar daughters, for that matter) learn how to accurately chart to avoid having babies, or how explicitly their moms taught them to chart in order to have the maximum number of pregnancies. I vaguely remember hearing about a calendar on an early 19 Kids and Counting...

And, @Red Hair, Black Dress, I loved your response and wish I could love it many, many times!

[EowynW]

46 minutes ago, Audrey2 said:

I know I'm mixing threads here, but I wonder if not being 100% on her charting or having a wonkier schedule is what led to Alyssa Bates Webster's baby number 3. I wonder if the Bates (and Duggar daughters, for that matter) learn how to accurately chart to avoid having babies, or how explicitly their moms taught them to chart in order to have the maximum number of pregnancies. I vaguely remember hearing about a calendar on an early 19 Kids and Counting...

And, @Red Hair, Black Dress, I loved your response and wish I could love it many, many times!

It is much harder to chart if you are having a wonky cycle or if you aren't consistent. So yes.  I have a cousin who got pregnant that way.

The best way to learn NFP is to take a class by someone qualified (moms don't count IMO) and have THEM go over your charts with you for a few months, which many teachers will do with you. 

1 hour ago, SoSoNosy said:

What does the bride's mother care, if it's the first or fourteenth dress?  How is that deceiving anybody?  I'm confused.

Because she is a raging steamroller of a bitch and control freak + a stuck up hardcore fundie. 

[Audrey2]

1 minute ago, EowynW said:

It is much harder to chart if you are having a wonky cycle or if you aren't consistent. So yes.  I have a cousin who got pregnant that way.

The best way to learn NFP is to take a class by someone qualified (moms don't count IMO) and have THEM go over your charts with you for a few months, which many teachers will do with you. 

Thank you, @EowynW. Your brother is so lucky to have you as a sister, and I appreciate your insightful posts here. Truthfully, I don't know much about charting, so I found your response quite informative. 

[AliceInFundyland]

Charting sounds so incredibly complicated. TMI, but, I take the pill because it’s the only way I don’t get cystic breakouts. I can’t use iuds because my uterus is inverse. Norplant (in the arm) made me bleed a month straight.

My gynecologist is a wonderful man who looks like Hugh Jackman. He wants me to have a hysterectomy in the next few years. Yay. Meanwhile I have a ridiculous cycle. Like one week of the four I don’t bleed. It’d probably be clearer if I went off the pill, But then I have zits. I take the psychological benefits of skin over the ridiculous bleeding.

That poster who keeps popping off about how simple it all is just really gets me riled up. i’m glad your bro has you @EowynW

[EmainMacha]

Re NFP - back in the day the Catholic church in my town used to give nfp classes. Due to the Troubles Catholic wives of police officers and prison officers weren't safe to attend the normal classes. My mum is in the medical profession and was asked to teach the nfp class in our house for these women. Rather than tell the priests that, 1. It really wasn't her area of expertise and 2. She was utterly exhausted at the end of each day, she agreed to host and teach the class. 

Even now she feels guilty. Apparently a startling number of those women had children in the year after she "taught" them nfp. 

 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

18 hours ago, EowynW said:

Because she is a raging steamroller of a bitch and control freak + a stuck up hardcore fundie. 

This is why your brother needs to let his bride know in a polite, nice but firm way that her mother doesn't get to do that to their marriage and to your all's family -- especially not to your mother.  Tell him to reference the making her cry 4 times in one conversation.

I know the bride is dominated by her mother, but once she's married she has the perfect fundie excuse to ignore mom:  She has to obey her husband, her headship

[Briefly]

20 hours ago, EowynW said:

It is much harder to chart if you are having a wonky cycle or if you aren't consistent. So yes.  I have a cousin who got pregnant that way.

The family legend is that I am here because my mom couldn't count very well.  Not that I mind being here and I certainly don't doubt that my parents loved me! But they were pretty sure they were done with 2, I am # 3 and it explains the large gap between my older brother & sister and me.

[EowynW]

3 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

This is why your brother needs to let his bride know in a polite, nice but firm way that her mother doesn't get to do that to their marriage and to your all's family -- especially not to your mother.  Tell him to reference the making her cry 4 times in one conversation.

I know the bride is dominated by her mother, but once she's married she has the perfect fundie excuse to ignore mom:  She has to obey her husband, her headship

I did talk to him tonight. I think he heard me, but still just doesn't want to "rock the boat" with anything. :-/ Oh well, I did try. I know my parents are fundie,  and lord knows they can be a handful some days, but they are nothing compared to the insanity that is my future SIL's family. Mr. EW have already decided though, we will not let my parents be steamrollered at the wedding and will be saying something if anything comes up, even if it does make people mad. 

Also, I've been asked to find clean family friendly batchelor party ideas that can be done just at their home the night before. Oh help lol 

[Bethella]

2 hours ago, EowynW said:

Also, I've been asked to find clean family friendly batchelor party ideas that can be done just at their home the night before. Oh help lol 

How about a backyard BBQ? They could do hot dogs or burgers on the grill. After that they can play pickup sports in the yard (shoot hoops, toss a football around, etc) or even have a water balloon fight if it's warm enough. If they want to be really fundy, I found this suggestion on the internet:

Quote

Have an advice and blessing party. The friends get together at someones house and help him fill a book of marriage and child rearing advice – personal and scriptural advice. Things that could be covered are:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080226133834AAFA1Wx

[Themanda Duggar]

15 hours ago, EowynW said:

Also, I've been asked to find clean family friendly batchelor party ideas that can be done just at their home the night before. Oh help lol 

What about some kind of work party?  Are there any basic house projects that a group could accomplish in a day?   What about putting in a flower garden, or something like that?

[Briefly]

20 hours ago, EowynW said:

I did talk to him tonight. I think he heard me, but still just doesn't want to "rock the boat" with anything. :-/ Oh well, I did try. I know my parents are fundie,  and lord knows they can be a handful some days, but they are nothing compared to the insanity that is my future SIL's family. Mr. EW have already decided though, we will not let my parents be steamrollered at the wedding and will be saying something if anything comes up, even if it does make people mad. 

Also, I've been asked to find clean family friendly batchelor party ideas that can be done just at their home the night before. Oh help lol 

I hope that they will be happy. But I can't help but think of Jessica and Ronnie Brown (I think that's the last name, Kristina's brother) and it sounds like he was pretty miserable with extremely overbearing in-laws. I'm not excusing his actions, just expressing an opinion

[newyorkgirl52]

Did anyone see the virtual discussion groups Duggar friend Krista is starting to discuss the Handmaid's Tale? I think it could be interesting...especially with the Duggar-circle friends I'm sure will be in the group. I decided to sign up for one and put this here in case anyone else was interested. 

[Tangy Bee]

Can someone explain to me why fundies push Essential Oils?? Are they really worth the hype? A local lady has been saling something called, NingXia Red. Might  be spelled wrong. If anyone has a testimony about this product, I would like to know.

[MarblesMom]

Marbles almost had herself a JW snicky-snack.... Why these people feel the need to explore their way down into my property is beyond me... 

[SoSoNosy]

On 5/16/2018 at 9:37 PM, Tangy Bee said:

Can someone explain to me why fundies push Essential Oils?? Are they really worth the hype? A local lady has been saling something called, NingXia Red. Might  be spelled wrong. If anyone has a testimony about this product, I would like to know.

I took/drank it for a while; at first, I fooled myself into thinking it was doing some good.  Then I kept forgetting it, and I never felt worse, so I don't think it really did anything positive.  My daughter was caught up in the brand, she got disillusioned and quit.  It is a Young Living product.

[HereticHick]

Focus on the Family is having a meeting in my building today; I've got to pop up to that floor and check out what the ladies are wearing.

 

In other news, I have a college friend who is quite evangelical & has self-published a couple of Christian fiction books. I just finished her last one, which features a dream fantasy sequence with Jesus that I can only describe as... erotic.  

 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

@EowynW  Any interesting stories from your brother's wedding?

[EowynW]

15 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

@EowynW  Any interesting stories from your brother's wedding?

Oooooo I do have a couple interesting stories to tell. Her parents are insane. But I will say all drama was them, not her. She is very sweet and very overshadowed by that Mom of hers. Is she carrying  baggage and hampered by her fundie life? Absolutely. But so was I. And I got through it, so I have hope she will too. 

I will write an update post tomorrow. Right now I am out the door for my anniversary dinner with Mr. EW. 

[Beermeet]

On 5/23/2018 at 6:58 AM, HereticHick said:

 

 

In other news, I have a college friend who is quite evangelical & has self-published a couple of Christian fiction books. I just finished her last one, which features a dream fantasy sequence with Jesus that I can only describe as... erotic.  

 

Naughty Jesus fiction?!  Oh, dear. O.O

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

5 hours ago, EowynW said:

Right now I am out the door for my anniversary dinner with Mr. EW. 

Happy Anniversary to you both!