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funyuns_and_fundies

Boy Drowns at Fairhaven Baptist

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funyuns_and_fundies

A 12 year old boy just drowned in the pool at Fairhaven Baptist Church while there were 2 adults in the pool. This is the place that CNN covered in there piece about abuse in the name of religous disclipline, along with Hephzibah House. Fairhaven has a connected school and college.

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purjolok84
A 12 year old boy just drowned in the pool at Fairhaven Baptist Church while there were 2 adults in the pool. This is the place that CNN covered in there piece about abuse in the name of religous disclipline, along with Hephzibah House. Fairhaven has a connected school and college.


That this continues to happen sickens me - I was about to ask whether it could have been attributed to anything else when I first looked at the title, but seeing that it's tied up with Hephzibah House and has been in the news before ... people need to find a different way to connect with children who are hurting and aren't behaving in positive ways other than harsh abuse that can lead to death. It's as easy as that.

So let's hope in this case these two idiots are convicted of something and it sticks. And the facility is closed permanently. And a law is passed so crap like this doesn't happen again.

But I might as well hold my breath.

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Marvin Miller

Obviously none of you know the facts and jumped to conclusions before even digging into things.I live a mile away from Fairhaven and this church enjoys a stellar reputation in the community as one of the few churches in the area who does any outreach at all.There has never been ANY child abuse at this facility,

In this unfortunate tragedy the autopsy is still pending but the lad who reportedly drowned was standing in three feet of water.There was no abuse,or punishment involved.

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Petronella

I just don't understand what physically happened. How can someone the height of a twelve-year-old drown in three feet of water? I'm just really confused.

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Kailash

We don't know enough details to understand what happened. It's possible the child was mentally impaired. Also, I read an article once about how drowning doesn't look like drowning. It opened my eyes and I watched a lot more closely than I had before. 

So tragic. 

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Georgiana

Abuse or no, HOW does a child drown in a pool with two adults? As an adult, I cannot imagine being so unaware of any child I was in a pool with (even an older one) that the child is able to drown. What were the adults doing that this happened?

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Griftwood
8 hours ago, Marvin Miller said:

Obviously none of you know the facts and jumped to conclusions before even digging into things.I live a mile away from Fairhaven and this church enjoys a stellar reputation in the community as one of the few churches in the area who does any outreach at all.There has never been ANY child abuse at this facility,

In this unfortunate tragedy the autopsy is still pending but the lad who reportedly drowned was standing in three feet of water.There was no abuse,or punishment involved.

Without commenting on whether this tragic incident was an accident or not, I have say your church's reputation is hardly stellar. Or you guys don't get CNN or go on the internet. 

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nastyhobbitses
4 hours ago, Petronella said:

I just don't understand what physically happened. How can someone the height of a twelve-year-old drown in three feet of water? I'm just really confused.

Fall face-down, can't get yourself back upright/get your head out of the water. Or if someone holds you down.

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Marvin Miller

Definitely am aware of the things said on CNN and the internet.I saw it all and Just a few punk kids blaming everything on their parents and their church background.But that's the culture we live in.NOTHING has ever been true.Not even once.In the 40 years since this church has been around it would have been shut down if these things were true.Show me one shred of real evidence of child abuse and I will fund the legal bills to go after the individual.I own a business in Chesterton and definitely have the resources.

As far as drowning in three feet of water,I remember years ago when we lived in Iowa and my older brother passed away in a farming  accident and my whole family was in shock.One minute he was a happy 9 year old boy and the next minute he was dead from suffocation in a grain bin.It only took a little bit of grain in his throat.My dad blamed himself for years and I have to say it may have been  partly his fault.But to pour salt on the wound by speculating all kinds of wrong doing is not Christian at all.

Accidents are always preventable. That's a fact.But to pass judgement before even hearing all the facts or to say that they were exercising some form of punishment in a swimming pool is dumb.The local sheriffs department has questioned the two adult individuals thoroughly and found no wrong doing and if it comes to that the family of this boy will get their day in court.

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Georgiana

I'm unconvinced. "Nothing has ever been true. Not even once." has got to be up there for ridiculous statement of the year. Are you alleging that there's a massive conspiracy against this church? I don't buy it.

You seem to have misconceptions on how the American legal system works.  Just because charges are never pressed does NOT mean the reports are false, but rather that the state could not collect enough evidence or has otherwise declined to prosecute. Do you think the ONLY major crime Al Capone committed was tax evasion? That's just all they could "make stick". Religious groups, like the mafia, tend to be hard to prosecute because everyone tends to attempt to protect the group. 

And the adults were not arrested YET. Key word there. The investigation is still ongoing, and especially when the charges are serious it is not uncommon for arrests not to be made immediately. 

This doesn't add up for me. Where there is smoke, there's usually fire, and this place has been billowing smoke for a while now. 

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RosyDaisy
Definitely am aware of the things said on CNN and the internet.I saw it all and Just a few punk kids blaming everything on their parents and their church background.But that's the culture we live in.

Classic victim blaming at it's finest. As to the culture we live in, you mean one where abuse isn't covered up and hidden? I kind of like that, but it's not enough. Fuck you and you kind.

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Depressed
polecat
On 7/7/2017 at 9:13 AM, funyuns_and_fundies said:

A 12 year old boy just drowned in the pool at Fairhaven Baptist Church while there were 2 adults in the pool. This is the place that CNN covered in there piece about abuse in the name of religous disclipline, along with Hephzibah House. Fairhaven has a connected school and college.

I went to school/church at Fairhaven. It's hell. 

Marvin Miller -- unless you actually went to school there, you have no business saying no child abuse has ever occurred there. NONE whatsoever. You DO NOT KNOW. And their reputation in the community is shit. So my guess is that you're either an adult who attends church there and are complicit or you are some other church supporter who has no clue what is going on there. I personally know two of the people who are in that CNN report, and I know of an instance of baby abuse (BABY abuse!), reported it, and nothing, to my knowledge, ever came of it. 

There was no lifeguard on duty at the time, and apparently, they didn't have any. A child can drown in just a few inches of water, so yes, he could have drowned in 3 feet of water. The pool I go to has lifeguards -- several of them -- on duty at all times. A couple weeks ago, there was a near-drowning. No one noticed the boy when it happened. I am not even sure people noticed the lifeguard diving in. I only noticed the lifeguard getting out of the pool, which was weird because they never get in the pool, and that's when I noticed she was carrying something. The kid. Another lifeguard was standing right there to help haul the kid out. The kid was fine, but just about no one noticed *anything*, even the people who were right there. Drowning really is silent. And when people are playing in a pool, they're not paying attention to what's going on around them. It's a horrible tragedy, but with a lifeguard, it could have been prevented.

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laPapessaGiovanna

Isn't lifeguard presence mandatory?

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Depressed
polecat
1 minute ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

Isn't lifeguard presence mandatory?

According to Chicago Trib, churches apparently feel they're "exempt" from having lifeguards on duty.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/news/ct-ptb-chesterton-church-dorwning-st-0706-20170705-story.html

 

 

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Marvin Miller

Lifeguard presence is based on the size of the pool.This pool is under the square footage requirements and was approved by the local health department.My guess is they will put lifeguards in place now that this has happened even though its not required.

I've been to Fairhaven and attended school there. Recieved a fine education.Im still waiting for one shred of evidence of abuse...All you can tell me is abuse,abuse,abuse with no facts of what happened.Present me with evidence and Ill drag the person down to the Police department in Chesterton.So if you actually know of baby abuse and reported it but nothing came of it you aren't doing your job very well Sherlock Jesus Holmes.

A lot can be said about who ones  enemies are. Fairhaven's enemies are all people who aren't living for God.

 

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Depressed
polecat
31 minutes ago, Marvin Miller said:

I've been to Fairhaven and attended school there. Recieved a fine education.Im still waiting for one shred of evidence of abuse...All you can tell me is abuse,abuse,abuse with no facts of what happened.Present me with evidence and Ill drag the person down to the Police department in Chesterton.So if you actually know of baby abuse and reported it but nothing came of it you aren't doing your job very well Sherlock Jesus Holmes.Im still waiting for one shred of evidence of abuse...All you can tell me is abuse,abuse,abuse with no facts of what happened.Present me with evidence and Ill drag the person down to the Police department in Chesterton.So if you actually know of baby abuse and reported it but nothing came of it you aren't doing your job very well Sherlock Jesus Holmes.

5

Snipping and bolding by me ... 

No, Mr. Miller, you most certainly did not receive a "fine education" there, if you actually attended Fairhaven. Your writing betrays you -- you sound like someone who is woefully undereducated. For another thing, your online safety skills are terribly lacking. 

You talk about "punk kids," but those people in the video are closer to my age, and I'm nowhere near a "punk kid." So how old are you? You're either far too old to be a Fairhaven student or far too young to know who those people are. I'm betting the former, which makes you a liar about your "former student" status.

But none of it would matter because I have no proof to offer you. You know what else? The statute of limitations is up on everything I witnessed. So it doesn't matter. What hurts we and they suffered DO NOT MATTER.

You can go fuck yourself.

 

eta:  

Quote

Fairhaven's enemies are all people who aren't living for God

You know what? You're so wrong. One of the men in the videos is doing incredible work for God right now. He's ministering to people and singing and doing great work. I'm regularly humbled by him because he IS such a great example for me and many other people. He's not perfect -- no one is -- but how dare you imply that he's satan's tool because he speaks out against child abuse. Talk about satan's tool. 

 

Edited by polecat

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PreciousPantsofDoom

My husband went to a Catholic school. He got a quality education, has good memories of his time there, remembers fondly some of the teachers and Brothers (who made up some of the staff while he was there.) He was completely unaware at the time that one of the Brothers was abusing some of the boys. My husband knew nothing of it until years later when charges were laid and the Brother went to jail.  One of my husband's friends was even in the Brother's class and he was shocked to learn of it. 

Just because you attended the school or go to the church does not mean that you know every single thing that goes on. Stop being a dick about it. 

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Georgiana

@Marvin Miller: TESTIMONY IS EVIDENCE. It is admissible in a court of law. If you received a "fine education", you should know that primary sources and first hand accounts are some of the STRONGEST pieces of evidence to support a claim available.

There IS evidence this is occurring. There is testimony. 

If your only answer to this evidence is to postulate that there is a massive conspiracy, I will turn this around on you: what EVIDENCE do you have to support such a claim?

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Depressed
polecat

The church's statement, per Steve Damron: 

 

"I want to express my sincere thanks to all first responders, police personnel, and other local law enforcement officials who did all they could during the recent tragedy that occurred at our church. Our heartfelt gratefulness is given to all those who expressed sympathy and offered to help. Words cannot express the pain the family is enduring at this time. However, it is encouraging to work first-hand with the folks in our local government; each one handled the situation with professionalism, care, and compassion. Please continue to pray for the family of Davion Henderson as they cope with this great loss,"

 

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funyuns_and_fundies

Marvin Miller-- I started this thread because I felt the event was important to talk about, especially given Fairhaven's history of abuse testimonies. I'm sure you can see why this would be something particulary interesting to our community, as we exist to discuss the possible damages of Fundamentalism. I mean no disrespect to you or the members of Fairhaven, but such a tragic event, especially under these circumstances, deserves to be talked about.

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nausicaa
4 hours ago, Marvin Miller said:

I've been to Fairhaven and attended school there. Recieved a fine education.Im still waiting for one shred of evidence of abuse...All you can tell me is abuse,abuse,abuse with no facts of what happened.

A lot can be said about who ones  enemies are. Fairhaven's enemies are all people who aren't living for God.

 

Apparently that fine education didn't include grammar, punctuation, critical thinking skills, or the correct use of a space bar in keyboarding class...

Do you personally know that all of Fairhaven's enemies are people who aren't living for God? You know the beliefs and hearts of all of those critics as well as those of the posters on this thread?

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Mischievous
Carol
6 hours ago, Marvin Miller said:

 

I've been to Fairhaven and attended school there. Recieved a fine education.Im still waiting for one shred of evidence of abuse...All you can tell me is abuse,abuse,abuse with no facts of what happened.Present me with evidence and Ill drag the person down to the Police department in Chesterton.So if you actually know of baby abuse and reported it but nothing came of it you aren't doing your job very well Sherlock Jesus Holmes.

 

 

Here is a video from 2011 where Pastor Roger Voegtlin is interviewed by a reporter.  At approximately 4:50 seconds Pastor Voegtlin denies an allegation brought by a student that he was raped repeatedly by another student.  Pastor Voegtlin then states, "I'd be the first person to drag the person(perpetrator) to the police station".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/25/video_n_978152.html

It's interesting, Marvin Miller, that you use essentially the same words in statement above.  Methinks there's a good chance that you are really Roger Voegtlin, the pastor of this church and not "Marvin Miller".  Too much of a coincidence for me.  Or, maybe it's what all of the faculty, staff, board members, church members were told to say?  Something really stinks here.

ETA, I am walking proof of sexual abuse by a school faculty member...the most beloved faculty member in our high school.  No one knew or suspected anything except a few other faculty members.  They never said a goddamn thing.

Edited by Carol

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EmiGirl
3 hours ago, funyuns_and_fundies said:

Marvin Miller-- I started this thread because I felt the event was important to talk about, especially given Fairhaven's history of abuse testimonies. I'm sure you can see why this would be something particulary interesting to our community, as we exist to discuss the possible damages of Fundamentalism. I mean no disrespect to you or the members of Fairhaven, but such a tragic event, especially under these circumstances, deserves to be talked about.

This sounds like what people said about Keiough high school in Baltimore.

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