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Old Fashioned: A Creepy Christian RomCom/Drama


Cleopatra7

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11 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

War Room and Fireproof also had devotional materials, so I wonder if this is where the real money in Christian movies comes from; market the movie heavily to churches and convince them to start classes based on the "lessons" learned in the movie, which forces everyone to not only see the movie but buy the related books as well.

AV Club touched on this in a very good article on why today's evangelical Christian movies are so terrible.

http://www.avclub.com/article/can-new-wave-faith-based-filmmaking-transcend-prop-234051

There are plenty of excellent movies about religion and religious people, but these films grapple with doubt, inconsistency, and ambiguity.  You can't have these elements if the financial success of your movie depends on selling self-help books to churches.

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That reminds me, our good friend ;) John Robert Moore had an post about 'the 7 shades of Christian film'.  (I found his site a while back because he'd commented on Katie Botkin's blog.  His site's gone now but I found it on archive.org )

https://web.archive.org/web/20160825001423/http://www.johnmoorefilmmaker.com:80/2015/03/the-7-shades-of-christian-film.html

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19 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Him making her stand outside in the cold so he can fix something in her apartment is just insane. That is not a gentlemanly way to behave.

I've never seen this movie, but I watched the YouTube review that @Cleopatra7 posted on the first page, so please excuse my question if a full viewing of this trainwreck answers my question.

If Mike Pence Clay is so terrified of losing control of his lustful urges, why doesn't he ask Amber to please stay in the bedroom or bathroom until he's finished fixing things, or bring his aunt along to chaperone?!? I totally agree that he's a controlling dick, and she should run like hell, but I don't understand why she's shivering on the porch if there's other options. :confusion-shrug:

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20 hours ago, L1o2u3 said:

Maybe that movie was made to introduce the concept of courtship to another age group, I don't know.  

Maybe, but I'm leaning towards no. Like @Coy Koi, it seems like the guy who wrote it and directed it wanted to make sure he could star in it and he couldn't pass for anyone younger than 40. 

I also think part of it is helping to normalize the patriarchal notions that are often in evangelical churches. And pushing the idea that there were "good old days" where things were  better. It is pushing the fundie propaganda version of history. And it seemed to be pretty successful. The people they were targeting didn't walk away thinking, wow, that is an abusive relationship and he is totally out of line in everything from kicking the stripper out to forcing her to stand out in the cold. Toss in a devotional to make more money and continue with the idea that the movie presents a godly relationship. 

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17 hours ago, pook said:

Wondering if any of the Canadian F'jers think "Clay" is Paul Bernardo's doppelganger?

Holy crap! I was just trying to figure out who he reminded me of. Ughhhh. Now my skin is crawling. 

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23 hours ago, BackseatMom said:

I agree with @formergothardite - respect isn't just for "good women." When the only women you even pretend to treat respectfully are those who conform exactly to your social and moral code, it's really more of a threat to those women than real respect. Like - if you don't stay on my good side, I'll treat you like a non-person,  too.

And then, here comes Gilead. But even the "good women" of Gilead are not respected, although they helped engineer their own marginalization.

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1 hour ago, Carm_88 said:

Holy crap! I was just trying to figure out who he reminded me of. Ughhhh. Now my skin is crawling. 

I KNOW RIGHT?paul-bernardo-3.jpg

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It seems like the actor/writer/director of Old Fashioned is in his mid to late 40's and still isn't married. Perhaps he is gay, he knows that this isn't acceptable in his circles, so he comes up with crazy rules to keep women away all while acting like he just has super high, old fashioned standards. And then he just made it into a movie/devotional to make money and also live out his dreams of acting. 

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23 hours ago, pretty dizzy said:

Many people will find The Bible Reloaded completely crass and unfunny but I enjoy their movie reviews (mostly because I would never ever watch the Christian movies they review). I also enjoy TBR because I fit into the weird combination of being an atheist who is interested in Christian culture.

I was just going to post this too.

I want to say that TBR has a really good video on the Bible Camp documentary.

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1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

It seems like the actor/writer/director of Old Fashioned is in his mid to late 40's and still isn't married. Perhaps he is gay, he knows that this isn't acceptable in his circles, so he comes up with crazy rules to keep women away all while acting like he just has super high, old fashioned standards. And then he just made it into a movie/devotional to make money and also live out his dreams of acting. 

Or maybe he is just a creepy guy with some mental issues.

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But he didn't write the movie so he could play the lead role. 

Quote

I didn’t initially intend to play the role of “Clay” in the film

http://onefilmfan.com/in-their-own-words-director-rik-swartzwelder-of-old-fashioned/ 

Rik Swartzwelder also calls Clay

Quote

an emotionally numb legalist

Quote

The most broken and damaged character

Quote

He isn’t the perfect example… in many ways, he’s a cautionary tale. And, if he had never met Amber, he may have very well ended up dying alone.

(All quotes are from the interview). 

It seems to me that the writer/director/actor is very well aware of the fact that Clay does not represent the perfect Christian Prince Charming. 

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21 minutes ago, L1o2u3 said:

It seems to me that the writer/director/actor is very well aware of the fact that Clay does not represent the perfect Christian Prince Charming. 

Or as one of the reviewers says, "I think Clay kills people.

@pretty dizzy said: "I fit into the weird combination of being an atheist who is interested in Christian culture."

Aren't we all! 

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@L1o2u3 the writer also doesn't seem to grasp that Clay pretty much represents a disturbed man  and that  that the film doesn't show a "God honoring" romance or that the relationship he presents is not one of just a religious legalist learning about God's grace. . He doesn't get that Clay's behavior and demands aren't "old fashioned" they are a huge red flag that Clay is dangerous. If you meet a guy who acts like this, run. Run far far away. 

There is a book version of this movie and it reads like they got Miss Raquel to write it. 

Quote

He watched her climb each stair, wanting to look away but not able to. He swallowed. Not enough spit. Then too much

In the book she is forced to stand out in a cold rain while he fixes her stove. While she is standing outside in a cold rain, she dares to ask him about his beliefs and he shuts her down by telling her she is just bored and that is why she is asking.

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I know the novelization. :) I didn't like it that much... like every book based on a screenplay that I've read so far, it didn't add anything useful or surprising to the story. The only thing I learned was that the bathroom scene was actually meant to be a conversion scene (which I didn't notice at all in the movie).  I liked the movie a little better without the conversion. 

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I'm a big Anne Rice fan.  She is very interactive on her FB page.  One time while discussing Twilight she mentioned how there is a tried and true formula for such "romance" novels/ movies.  It plays to that fantasy of Prince Charming with the man in control but never outright abusive, money is no worry, woman feels protected, etc.....  

While it is nice to indulge in such books and let the fairytale take you away for a bit, there simply is no such thing in real life.  Moments, sure.  The whole package forever, never.  

Same with cute.  There is a reason why we love Minions.  Tried and true formula.

I'm guessing this dude tried to portray the formula and failed because he's a real creep.

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On 7/1/2017 at 9:27 AM, BackseatMom said:

I agree with @formergothardite - respect isn't just for "good women." When the only women you even pretend to treat respectfully are those who conform exactly to your social and moral code, it's really more of a threat to those women than real respect. Like - if you don't stay on my good side, I'll treat you like a non-person,  too.

One of my favorite poems, from suffragist Alice Duer Miller: 

"Chivalry

It's treating a woman politely

As long as she isn't a fright:

It's guarding the girls who act rightly,

If you can be judge of what's right;

It's being—not just, but so pleasant;

It's tipping while wages are low;

It's making a beautiful present,

And failing to pay what you owe."

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33 minutes ago, Beermeet said:

I'm guessing this dude tried to portray the formula and failed because he's a real creep.

Yeah, it does sound like he was going for a quirky romcom with a fundie theme, but ended up creating a creepy guy with controlling abusive behavior. It would be hard to take the "can't be with a woman" message and not make it disturbing. It is disturbing when our vice president says it. 

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@L1o2u3, no, we aren't all atheists on FJ, although we all get along quite well in this community. This is one of the things I really like  about FJ. Most folks here are open minded.

There was a poll about this. IIRC, fourteen percent or so of FJ members who voted at the time identified as atheist. The rest of us were all over the map. I'm Christian, but as far from fundy as you can get. 

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@formergothardite. I find it even more disturbing our VP feels that way!  There is a fundy in the WH, a few racists ( FN Bannon being the grand poobah), anti-science buttheads and an Orange thingy.

WHAAAAAAAA!  Help.  Anyone, anyone still sane in D.C.?   Looks like that movie Idiocracy was a crystal ball.

Beer me!

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Some of us are Christians interested in Atheist culture. :lol-emote-but-i-can't-find-one-oh-well:

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And some of us are progressive Christians interested in fundamentalist culture.

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That's what I enjoy the most about FJ.  It's a very cool thing to be able to respectfully discuss religion and culture with a diverse group of people.  Not a debate, no "I am right!!!1!11!!!".

The snark is delish too!

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On 7/1/2017 at 4:22 PM, pook said:

Wondering if any of the Canadian F'jers think "Clay" is Paul Bernardo's doppelganger?

Not Canadian but live on the border, and that idea makes Clay even worse!!!

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@DutchMommy, I fell into the rabbit hole of The Bible Reloaded, thank you so much! Been watching their YouTube reviews of Chick Tracts and laughing my ass off! :my_biggrin:

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