Counting On, Season Four Part 4

[SapphireSlytherin]

I'm about half-way through the episode and I haven't seen the calendar yet. But if there IS a calendar, why would Meeechelle's menstrual cycle be marked on it? She's pregnant in this ep.

[singsingsing]

1 hour ago, Fluffy14 said:

I saw it. It was on the wall. I was so shocked , disgusted, and repulsed. Just the shear lack of boundaries was astounding to me. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it did not exist. It existed all right.

So it was on the wall, not the fridge (because everyone else seemed to think it was on the fridge)? Do you remember what episode, season, or special this was in? Ballpark how long ago this was witnessed? Did they comment on it, or was it just there in the background? What was the context (if you vividly remember the chart, you must remember other aspects of the episode/special/interview)?

[SapphireSlytherin]

OK - 14 Kids is over and I saw no calendar or chart. Nothing was pointed out, nothing was mentioned. If it was there, it was just a fleeting glimpse and I didn't see it. There WERE charts for daily schedules and chores jurisdictions.

[HarleyQuinn]

Part of me wants to think it's cute how concerned Ben was during that labor, but then I'm like "Nah, Ben's a moron. I can't believe he's procreating."

That stupid menstrual calendar does exist. The reason I feel like it was one of the older shows was because I was watching it on youtube. 

[MsSaylor]

Its not the 14 kids special was at the TTh

[SayWhat]

From what I recall about the menstrual caldender 

It was at the TTH, I do not recall the room.  It was discussed and  was called either cycle or cycle chart,  I do not recall it being called  a menstrual calendar.  

 

Edited to Add:  In the NYC episode when they were announcing #18, on the Today show, Michelle states right after the announcement "my girls watch the calendar like a hawk" . Same episode they lost Jackson at the airport. JimBoob chases a chicken at a truck stop and MIchelle is a duck master. 

[MadeItOut]

3 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

. So I'm taking 5-minute breaks here and there and watching it - which makes me want to go paint more ceilings. lol

Just as well da Vinchi never had TV...

^^^^^ post the first.

\/ second post

Okay, could do with a clarification on this - I get that a chart on the wall or a group exercise or something is weird, but when we were towards that time, Mum did show us the little symbol she used in her diary, showed us how to keep an eye on your cycle and why that's important. Add to that the fact that Mum and sis are alphas, it just ended up that we all knew when each other were on. ...and it didn't seem weird at all.

Even these days if we get together things can go weird.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

Yeah, my teenage daughter and I are on roughly the same schedule and she would likely notice if I was super late. We keep our pads in the same place and whine about our periods to each other. I keep track of my dates in an app now, but back in the day I used to put little stars on my kitchen calendar. I think it's possible this whole thing was much more innocent than people are making it out to be. 

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

I finally watched the latest episode on youtube. Dilldick was totally snarking us when he talked about naming all the Dullards blessings after countries. Also, I thought the video chat between the adult Duggar sisters seemed very stiff, and hope they have better conversations off camera. That being said, I imagine Jinger and Jessa's convos are very different than when Jill is around. I also hope Jana can have mature conversations with her married sisters.

When all the young mothers were gathered around at the baby shower talking about pregnancy, I kept thinking about the reunion scene in Romy and Michelle's High School Reunion, with all the popular girls being pregnant, and wondering how Jana feels at these events.

[Jucifer]

52 minutes ago, SayWhat said:

Edited to Add:  In the NYC episode when they were announcing #18, on the Today show, Michelle states right after the announcement "my girls watch the calendar like a hawk" . Same episode they lost Jackson at the airport. JimBoob chases a chicken at a truck stop and MIchelle is a duck master. 

Here's Michelle on the Today Show mentioning that her daughters watch the calendar 'like a hawk'-

It's around 4:00

 

[Million Children For Jesus]

4 minutes ago, JemimaPuddle-Duck said:

I think it's possible this whole thing was much more innocent than people are making it out to be. 

I think so, too. It's not like a buddy team was assigned the ovulation calendar jurisdiction. The girls knew Mechelle was actively trying. "Watching the calendar like a hawk" could mean asking once a month if there was any news. In my family, that's how we ask if you're pregnant when we know someone is trying. "So.... Any news?"

Side Note: I've had people ask me if I'm pregnant for various reasons for my entire adult life. Passed on the champagne. Wore a baggy outfit. Threw up a bad taco from the taco truck. I never thought it was rude. I didn't know until I came on FJ that people considered that an invasive question. It never bothered me. 

[Rachel333]

I can't believe I'm doing this, but I think I'm going to defend them on this one (assuming it's true). Tracking your cycle is a good idea and keeping a calendar where the kids can see it is probably a decent way to normalize menstruation and make it seem like it's no big deal. There is way too much stigma around menstruation and that needs to change. You don't need to go into detail about it, but you should be able to mention it casually without people acting shocked and disgusted.

(I'm particularly looking at you, men! It irritates me so much when guys make all kinds of gross jokes about their own bodily functions but then freak out if someone even mentions periods.)

[brookeb82]

LOL. Did anyone else catch this? It was when Bin was predicting when Austin would propose to Joy.

[Jucifer]

I remember the chart or calendar being in the kitchen somewhere maybe next to the fridge or on it. It was in the house owned by the church, I think, before they moved to the TTH. 

It was the show or special where they were talking about how they had to schedule showers because there was only 1 bathroom. 

[MadeItOut]

 

(I'm particularly looking at you, men! It irritates me so much when guys make all kinds of gross jokes about their own bodily functions but then freak out if someone even mentions periods.)

^^^quoting @Rachael333 ...the box vanished. Sorry.

 

YES!!! Oh my, some guys are nuts like that!

 

It's the men in our family that are feminists for the most part - and, you know, sane in how they interact with women etc, so I was stunned when we had a work dinner and a guy colleague tried to take me aside and gave me this intense, almost panicked whisper: "You left your THINGS out!" ...took me a minute to realise and then I just naturally responded "nah, it's okay. I just put out a basket when there are ladies visiting 'cos there's nothing worse than being stuck and having to ask." His faced changed to total disgust and he said to Mr MIO "Are you okay with this?" I've seldom been prouder. Once he was clued in on what's going on, he said "doesn't bother me. I don't use tampons or pads". I LOVE that man!

[SayWhat]

I have no issues with tracking your menstrual cycle, educating your daughters how to track their cycles.  I agree with Rachel333  that there is way to much stigma around menstruation and we shouldn't be shocked or disgusted with the tracking or discussing of a menstrual cycle.

What I recall bothering me in the episode  is that the way  it was presented (not in the NYC episode and I can't find the episode, maybe it was edited out by TLC ).   It  was presented by one of the J-Slaves, as a way to track Michelle's most fertile days  for the purpose of getting Michelle knocked up.  I distinctly recall, when the MIA clip showing the calendar was aired,  thinking, well if they were leaving up to Jesus, they wouldn't need to know their most fertile days for purpose of having sex and making babies.  They would truly leave it up to Jesus. 

I have no problems with showing how to NFP with a fertility cycle, but I I do have  issues with stating we leave it up to God to determine the number of children we have  BUT we watch  our calendar "like a hawk" and make sure we fuck during the most fertile times to see how fast we can make another blessing.  

 

[SapphireSlytherin]

23 minutes ago, Jucifer said:

 

I remember the chart or calendar being in the kitchen somewhere maybe next to the fridge or on it. It was in the house owned by the church, I think, before they moved to the TTH. 

It was the show or special where they were talking about how they had to schedule showers because there was only 1 bathroom. 

 

That's 14 Kids, the one I just watched and I saw no chart or calendar that was tracking menstrual cycles. They talked about scheduling showers (some in the morning, some in the evening). It was the house they sold to a church before TTH was finished. They moved to another house at the end of 14 Kids but it was owned by a developer. I will see if the 15 Kids show had this legendary chart. 

[Iamtheway]

12 minutes ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

Side Note: I've had people ask me if I'm pregnant for various reasons for my entire adult life. Passed on the champagne. Wore a baggy outfit. Threw up a bad taco from the taco truck. I never thought it was rude. I didn't know until I came on FJ that people considered that an invasive question. It never bothered me. 

I don't drink and have the unfortune to put on weight mainly around the waist so I've had my fair share of questions. The difference is that if I get asked if I'm pregnant now it's a reminder I'm fat, and while not great I already know that and has decided that I like chocolate too much to change it.

But when I was asked while we were trying it was a reminder of the biggest heartache in my life and a devestating pain that I could not see the end of, and I would always, always go home and cry in the bathroom so my husband wouldn't hear me and be reminded of his pain. That never worked and he still gets freaked out if hears a sniffle from me from the bathroom. 

Infertility is horrid. 

[Quiver Full of Kittens]

44 minutes ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

 

Side Note: I've had people ask me if I'm pregnant for various reasons for my entire adult life. Passed on the champagne. Wore a baggy outfit. Threw up a bad taco from the taco truck. I never thought it was rude. I didn't know until I came on FJ that people considered that an invasive question. It never bothered me. 

I am overweight and every year a student or two will ask me when my baby is coming... Its not a big deal to me, but I could easily understand how very  painful it would be for someone struggling with infertility.

[Million Children For Jesus]

1 hour ago, Iamtheway said:

I don't drink and have the unfortune to put on weight mainly around the waist so I've had my fair share of questions. The difference is that if I get asked if I'm pregnant now it's a reminder I'm fat, and while not great I already know that and has decided that I like chocolate too much to change it.

But when I was asked while we were trying it was a reminder of the biggest heartache in my life and a devestating pain that I could not see the end of, and I would always, always go home and cry in the bathroom so my husband wouldn't hear me and be reminded of his pain. That never worked and he still gets freaked out if hears a sniffle from me from the bathroom. 

Infertility is horrid. 

Right there with you. I think I stopped getting asked if I was pregnant when I gained weight because I was in that grey zone where people were afraid that I would think they were calling me fat. When I was skinny, nobody worried, so I got asked all the time. 

When I had secondary infertility, I cried in the shower and in the car. Those were the only times I was alone and the kids wouldn't see me. I can only imagine all the people I drove passed sobbing like a maniac. After 14 years of trying, I've reached the age where that ship has probably permanently sailed. I had 6 friends my age have babies this year. One is even older than I am. All natural pregnancies, too. No fertility treatments. People say well meaning things like, "People your age have babies all the time." I know it's supposed to be encouraging, but it feels more like salt in the wound. When they ask me if in pregnant, I think, "oh good, they think I can get pregnant, so I guess it's possible." To me, I guess it makes me feel like they have faith it could happen, and that's a nice thing.

 

[MadeItOut]

2 minutes ago, Quiver Full of Kittens said:

I am overweight and every year a student or two will ask me when my baby is coming... Its not a big deal to me, but I could easily understand how very  painful it would be for someone struggling with infertility.

When I was having my middle survivor, a friend with a five year old was just a few weeks behind. We carried on as normal, like you do and then about half way through, she, I and the little one went shopping for baby clothes.  As we got to the till, wee one started decanting my shopping into her mummy's trolley. When my friend asked her why she said 'it's not MIO's shopping, it's yours'. We discovered that though she had a good grip on mummy's having baby brother in her tummy and she'd understood we were talking babies. What she'd missed was that anyone else had a baby in their tummy. My friend asked her what she'd thought was going on. She said "MIO got fat". So my friend told her I had a girl baby in my tummy and her little brain just wouldn't compute.

[RosyDaisy]

I find it very disturbing for anyone to think they get decide whether another human being is deserving of having a child.  

I find it even more disturbing that the welfare of children doesn't seem to matter.

[Million Children For Jesus]

My sister carries all of her weight in her middle. She is overweight on the BMI charts, not obese, but it's all in the middle. She gets asked about "her baby" frequently. She hates it. It bothers her a lot, and I feel terrible for her because it really does cut her deeply. (Then she gets mad and takes it out on me, but that's another story.) 

Also, I can see how someone struggling with infertility wouldn't like the pregnancy question. I didn't mind it, but it can certainly come off as, "Have you gone and done that thing yet? That easy thing that everyone else does? Well, get at it. Nothing stopping you." As if you just go to the store and get yourself a pregnancy off the shelf. It can feel a little dismissive. 

Edit: hmmm....Maybe it did bother me.

Second edit: I figured it out. "Are you going to have more kids?" bothered me because I felt the results were beyond my control, and I couldn't answer a yes or no question like that. "Are you pregnant?" "Are you trying?" "Would you ever want more?" I was okay with those.

[SapphireSlytherin]

I've been asked (when I was TTC number 2 ... and which ended horrifically three times) when I was going to have another; if I was pregnant; etc.

I have never and will never ask a woman if she's pregnant, nor if she's going to "have another."

 

9 minutes ago, RosyDaisy said:

I find it even more disturbing that the welfare of children doesn't seem to matter.

Just because you don't believe that the way a child is raised is "correct" gives you NO RIGHT to judge whether someone should have a child or not. 

 

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

12 minutes ago, RosyDaisy said:

I find it even more disturbing that the welfare of children doesn't seem to matter.

You are probably the most intense fundie-hater on FJ and that has never really bothered me. This is really frustrating though. Even you must know that not all fundies are/believe/act exactly the same way. Which ones don't deserve children? Just the Bates and Duggars? Just people ever talked about on FJ? Just people who spank (which goes way beyond fundies, and even Christians)? I have heard of one fundie family who thought atheists abused their children just by raising them as atheists. And I actually have a childhood friend who I'm still friends with on Facebook who thinks that any and ALL Christian parents who raise their children teaching them that God is real are abusing them.  Both of those are nuts. And you're real craptastic for wishing infertility on anyone, particularly people you don't actually know.