Counting On, Season Four Part 4

[Four is Enough]

But they did keep the mother's chart... on the refrigerator, did they not?

 

[Scribber]

I can promise you that infertility is just as hellish for someone like me, who doesn't live in a culture like Michael, as it is for her. All around me people are popping out babies left and right, it's honestly one of the hardest things I've ever had to deal with. I really feel for her, because it's pretty obvious that her desire to have kids is far more than what her religion/culture expects of her...but because she truly loves kids and wants to be a mom.

Her struggles break my heart.

I think it's impossible to understand infertility until you've been there. When my SIL struggled? I felt bad for her, but I was still 7 years away from even attempting pregnancy.... so I didn't get it at all.

Now? After 8 years of trying? (I do have a 9 year old, but then 8 years of nothing, and lack of funds for anything beyond the most basic treatments?) I have come to terms with my only (who is a miracle on many levels) but it still hurts like I can't even explain. (Especially when everyone around me is popping them out, and I interact with several "constantly pregnant" fundies in my daily life.)

Don't even get me started on the "are you going to let baby Scribber be your only child?" And "isn't it time for another?" I am a deeply private person, and not a chance am I sharing with fertile mertyl who believes that children are a blessing and we are to be building the lords army....

[singsingsing]

7 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

But they did keep the mother's chart... on the refrigerator, did they not?

This is what I'm talking about. This rumour gets repeated over and over again, but no one can provide, say, a screenshot of this supposed chart on the fridge, or a quote from one of the books, or an interview... nothing.

[MsSaylor]

God I remember it vividly. It was brief but real. Would be really strange, but not impossible, if it were a mass delusion.   

No way i can provide the episode though. Ive seen every episode of the Duggars but I don't rewatch them or archive them in any way. But i am usually pretty reliable about what I remember.   

[karen77]

29 minutes ago, Scribber said:

Now? After 8 years of trying? (I do have a 9 year old, but then 8 years of nothing, and lack of funds for anything beyond the most basic treatments?) I have come to terms with my only (who is a miracle on many levels) but it still hurts like I can't even explain. (Especially when everyone around me is popping them out, and I interact with several "constantly pregnant" fundies in my daily life.)

We had secondary as well. We eventually go there, but it SUCKED. SO I feel you for sure!!!! 

[singsingsing]

3 minutes ago, MsSaylor said:

God I remember it vividly. It was brief but real. Would be really strange, but not impossible, if it were a mass delusion.   

It actually wouldn't be that strange. Say multiple people, almost a decade ago, hear/witness something like, "We thought Mom was probably pregnant because we were watching the calendar!" 

Then a few people say, "Ew! They track their mother's menstrual cycles on the calendar?!"

Someone then speculates, "I bet Michelle tracks her cycle on a calendar on the fridge and forces her daughters to track it too. Gross."

It's not exactly something most people care enough about to make sure that they have a faultless recollection, you know? So the years roll by, and now and then it gets brought up again, and people repeat the rumours like they're fact. Before long, multiple people "remember" actually seeing the calendar on the fridge, not realizing that what they're "remembering" is just the idea of it.

I'm not saying that's what happened. I honestly don't know! I think it's entirely plausible that Michelle did track her cycles on a calendar on the fridge. Absolutely nothing I know about the Duggars makes me think, "No, surely they would never do such a thing." It sounds like something they would do. It's just that I've never seen any proof that it was real.

If someone out there has such proof and can provide it... you are the hero FJ needs. 

[Karma]

There was actually a thread about the mythical calendar back in 2012.

No sign of the actual calendar on the fridge, but Michelle apparently mentioned that the girls watch the calendar like a hawk on a Today show appearance.

[Four is Enough]

22 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

This is what I'm talking about. This rumour gets repeated over and over again, but no one can provide, say, a screenshot of this supposed chart on the fridge, or a quote from one of the books, or an interview... nothing.

OK, I went looking and just couldn't stomach any more of them than this, but I did find their Today Show announcement of number 18, which was... Jordyn? Anyway, along about 9:07,Michelle says, "the girls watch me like a hawk~" but could not confirm the tracking of cycles on a chart... just can't stand o watch any more.

 

[Dugg@rTime]

It was during an episode announcing another blessing that I remember a couple of the older girls, maybe Jana, Jill and jessa saying something along the lines of they asked DQ to take a test as they were aware she was late and DQ said that she'd not even thought about it until then, that the girls 'knew' before she did. While the girls were saying this they were standing in front of a wall with a calendar on it. They may or may not have gestured towards it at the time, 

iirc DQ did say that the girls kept track themselves. (Rather than it being initiated by DQ herself, but I doubt she deterred them)

[MsSaylor]

Yeah i know how mass delusions work I just think "hey I remember it so it has to be real" lol cuz clearly Im immune

but i do think like msny things it was exaggerated. From what i remember the calendar was hanging in a public space. Certain days were circled or otherwise marked and one of the girls or michelle sort of vaguely mentioned it.  I think the part about the girls being involved might be exaggerated. But i think the girls were aware, especially those who were interested in later years (jill) and like knew when it was time for Michelle to test. Jill was very involved in the later pregnancies from the beginning. 

Its also possible that the Calendar thing was scrubbed from later airings and unable to be found now. I havent looked but we know this has happened with other episodes. It was one of those things that got a lot of attention and seemed exceedingly weird. But something they dont realize normal people think is weird.

[Snarkle Motion]

36 minutes ago, MsSaylor said:

Yeah i know how mass delusions work I just think "hey I remember it so it has to be real" lol cuz clearly Im immune

but i do think like msny things it was exaggerated. From what i remember the calendar was hanging in a public space. Certain days were circled or otherwise marked and one of the girls or michelle sort of vaguely mentioned it.  I think the part about the girls being involved might be exaggerated. But i think the girls were aware, especially those who were interested in later years (jill) and like knew when it was time for Michelle to test. Jill was very involved in the later pregnancies from the beginning. 

Its also possible that the Calendar thing was scrubbed from later airings and unable to be found now. I havent looked but we know this has happened with other episodes. It was one of those things that got a lot of attention and seemed exceedingly weird. But something they dont realize normal people think is weird.

Maybe this is the FJ version of the Mandela effect? 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/christopherhudspeth/crazy-examples-of-the-mandela-effect-that-will-make-you-ques?utm_term=.bhdMAYPPL#.wr071n44K

Although I wouldn't put it past the duggars and tlc to scrub a section from the episode when they realized tracking your mom's cycle and sex habits is creepy.

[Incognito22]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

I think the 'following mother's menstrual cycle' thing is a rumour that gets repeated as fact over and over again. I'm not saying it didn't happened - it doesn't sound that outrageous to me - but I'd love to finally see an actual source for it (i.e. not 'I remember seeing it in one of the old episodes 6 years ago').

It was when they were on the today show and Michelle announced her pregnancy,  no clue what number.  She and boob were saying how hard it was to keep it a secret because the girls watch her cycle like a hawk.  I saw the video the other day.  Josh was still thin and maybe close to courting if that helps the timeline.  I don't remember seeing Anna. 

[Gillyweed]

13 minutes ago, Incognito22 said:

Josh was still thin and maybe close to courting if that helps the timeline.

Did he balloon up quickly after getting married, or was it after a couple babies? 

[Mayluka]

10 minutes ago, Incognito22 said:

It was when they were on the today show and Michelle announced her pregnancy,  no clue what number.  She and boob were saying how hard it was to keep it a secret because the girls watch her cycle like a hawk.  I saw the video the other day.  Josh was still thin and maybe close to courting if that helps the timeline.  I don't remember seeing Anna. 

Yes, @Four is Enough linked the episode above. It was 17 Kids and Counting Season 1 Episode 2. After announcing on the today show, Michelle says, "They didn't know; my girls watch the calendar like a hawk, but we just found out on Monday night."

I don't think there's any proof in this clip that the girls actually track Michelle's cycle, though. This could just mean they knew it had been long enough since the last baby and it was right about time for another one. However, I wouldn't put it past the Duggars to actually have some kind of menstrual cycle calendar, as I have read that this was a recommendation of both Gothard and Michael Pearl. [Side note: From what I've read, they suggested keeping track moreso to judge a woman's moodiness. Here's a link that comments on this topic: https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2014/01/17/moms-cycle-was-on-the-family-calendar/ ]

[Greendoor]

19 hours ago, PumaLover said:

I am sad reading all the infertility stories on here. It seems that the people who want children the most and would give them a great life are the ones that have the most problems. And then on the other hand, you have my kid's biological mother....

Bless you for adopting a sibling group.  There are so many who pass children over because they are not little babies.  

[HarleyQuinn]

I thought the pregnancy chart made an appearance on the "14 children and pregnant again" special? I'm not in a place where I can watch videos to check, but I swear that's where it was. 

[Dugg@rTime]

27 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I thought the pregnancy chart made an appearance on the "14 children and pregnant again" special? I'm not in a place where I can watch videos to check, but I swear that's where it was. 

That's where I'm sure it was. (or maybe the 16 kids and moving in) but can I find any of the early shows to watch on the net? Nope. There are a few bad links on youtube where episodes have been deleted, so it looks like they've (The Duggs or maybe TLC??) tried to hide all of the embarrassing early stuff.

[RosyDaisy]

no matter how shitty those beliefs are if a child is wanted and a child cannot be had it is a sad thing.

Wow, just wow. This comment shows a complete and utter disregard for the safety and well-being of children. One less child born into a cult is a blessing. I have no sympathy for infertile fundies. They don't fucking deserve it!

[sparklymagie]

I find it very disturbing for anyone to think they get decide whether another human being is deserving of having a child.  

[HarleyQuinn]

38 minutes ago, Dugg@rTime said:

That's where I'm sure it was. (or maybe the 16 kids and moving in) but can I find any of the early shows to watch on the net? Nope. There are a few bad links on youtube where episodes have been deleted, so it looks like they've (The Duggs or maybe TLC??) tried to hide all of the embarrassing early stuff.

The entire 14 kids episode is on Youtube in 5 parts. I know I saw it too. I'm going to try to search without sound

[Chewing Gum]

S4e04 is on youtube now, for those who, like me, are from abroad: 

 

[SapphireSlytherin]

I'm watching 14 and Pregnant Again. In fits and starts because gah. I'm also painting ceilings, which is much preferable. So I'm taking 5-minute breaks here and there and watching it - which makes me want to go paint more ceilings. lol

[Fluffy14]

4 hours ago, singsingsing said:

about. This rumour gets repeated over and over again, but no one can provide, say, a screenshot of this supposed chart on the fridge, or a quote from one of the books, or an interview... nothing.

I saw it. It was on the wall. I was so shocked , disgusted, and repulsed. Just the shear lack of boundaries was astounding to me. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it did not exist. It existed all right.

[Chewing Gum]

Well to be late to the party, I just watched the latest episode, and Jill really wants to have a girl! Not sure if it is because she wants one or because Jessa doesn't have one yet. 

[Incognito22]

28 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

I'm watching 14 and Pregnant Again. In fits and starts because gah. I'm also painting ceilings, which is much preferable. So I'm taking 5-minute breaks here and there and watching it - which makes me want to go paint more ceilings. lol

You can literally say which is more fun.... counting on or watching paint dry!