Counting On, Season Four Part 4

[Greendoor]

French Grade 3 - 12.  I can speak it in limited conversation, but read quite well.  I don't live in a province where French is used much.

My son  learned Quebecois (French).  His pronuciation is AWFUL, not really French to my ear, not a patios but....  I learned from European teachers, most of whom were from France.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

3 hours ago, minniestwin said:

So I guess my answer to this would be it would depend on where you lived in the US as to what the requirements regarding a second language.

In Iowa you need 2 years of foreign language, both my kids will have 4 years Ds took Spanish DD is taking French.  She has her 4 year this coming year.  

[CreationMuseumSeasonPass]

39 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

In Iowa you need 2 years of foreign language, both my kids will have 4 years Ds took Spanish DD is taking French.  She has her 4 year this coming year.  

I took four years of French at my high school here in the metro Des Moines area. After I graduated, I went on my school's French trip. I remember only the most basic words. 

[Dandruff]

I took two years of Spanish in HS, because I had to take a language for two years and it seemed the easiest.  Had the same great teacher both years and did well (largely due to the teacher - I have no particular talent for it).  Had no reason to use it at college, or in my subsequent jobs and communities, and forgot nearly all of it.  Make occasional feeble attempts to relearn it now.

[bella8050]

Went to Catholic school through 6th grade- from 4th grade on Soanish was mandatory. Though the teacher was horrible and I learned nothing. She would come in once a week with some words on a big sheet and we repeated them as a class, to check our homework all you had to do was raise your paper while she sat at her desk. That school was ahead of public schools in a lot of ways but that wasn't one. Switched to public school for middle school and a language was required both years and then two years in HS. Did French for those 4 years and then one extra year because I like it. I could never speak it very well but could underatand it at a conversational level and read it pretty well. Took it once more as a refersher in college since I had an open elective. 

[speller24]

3 hours ago, Jessie E said:

I noticed the pie filling as well. I do a lot of baking in my free time. It's a strong passion of mine. I had a bit of a chuckle at the "forsyth family secret recipe" too. From what I could see, it was just your standard cheese cake recipe; nothing seemed special about it. But like we mentioned on here earlier, its a TLC formula.  Jessa made the "family secret recipe" for apple pie & Jinger with the spaghetti sauce.

I feel so obtuse for not noticing this, but you're so right! LOL oh TLC. We see you. And it always highlights a struggle, because it's so dramatic to be baking for your special man friend. Jessa burns everything. Jinger didn't know pasta names. Now Joy with her scrambled egg cheesecake. 

23 hours ago, nausicaa said:

Personally, I find that dynamic really, really creepy and unhealthy in a marriage. 

REALLY CREEPY! Get a partner, not a mentor. Although, that's probably too much for any of the girls coming out of the Duggar home.

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

I learned French at school from kindergarten to graduation. The city I grew up in (Ottawa, Ontario) is very bilingual, and I was lucky enough to use my French at work after graduating. I also spent almost a month in France when I was 18, and when I came back, all the Francophones I knew thought I sounded like a German or British person speaking French.

Fast forward almost 20 years, and I'm living on the west coast and hardly ever speaking French. I have a piece of paper that says I'm bilingual, but am embarrassingly out of practice. I imagine if I could go somewhere and immerse myself, I'd pick it up again.

I also tried to learn Spanish years ago in University. It came to me fairly easily, but anytime I had trouble remembering Spanish words, or expressing myself in Spanish, I would automatically revert to French.

As for Michelle's appearance, I'm happy to see that she's been wearing her hair smoother/straighter in recent pictures. It's more flattering than her 80s poodle perm.

[fluffernutter]

My two oldest girls took German all the way through hs. Last year, we hosted an exchange student from Germany. Her English was phenomenal compared to our kids' German. She said she learned English all the way through school. Then last summer one of my daughter's visited her for a month, and said she felt like she didn't understand much of anything. Maybe it's something kids need to learn all through school. 

[LovelyLuna]

1 year of Spanish in HS, I didn’t learn much more then I already knew by living in Southern California. I can speak basic common phrases and I understand about half of what is said. The school program was a joke. I also wish we had more language education.  But I also want more arts and PE and other shit that is slowly dispersing from our school system.  end rant/

[Gobbles]

21 minutes ago, fluffernutter said:

My two oldest girls took German all the way through hs. Last year, we hosted an exchange student from Germany. Her English was phenomenal compared to our kids' German. She said she learned English all the way through school. Then last summer one of my daughter's visited her for a month, and said she felt like she didn't understand much of anything. Maybe it's something kids need to learn all through school. 

I did not have the best (longest) school education due to my health problems, but I think I learned English for 13 years. Add 3 years for people with normal school "careers". Four years of elementary school with very basic English and nine years worth of classes several times per week. 

How many hours per week do you learn a foreign language in the US?

[VelociRapture]

Southern New Englander here. We were required to take a foreign language starting in middle school (around age 11.) Middle school only offered Spanish or French (I did French for three years.) In High School, you needed a certain amount to graduate and the state universities required a certain amount as well. My High School offered Spanish, French, Italian, and Latin. I did a year of Latin and three years of Spanish. I also took a semester of Arabic in college. 

I'm nowhere near fluent in anything. I remember some words and very simple phrases, but that's it. I wish I was fluent so my daughter would grow up bilingual. The best I can do for her is to use what Spanish words I remember when showing her something (like "arroz" and "parajos".) I also read really simply childrens' books to her (like, "¿Donde esta Spot?") and sing two songs I memorized in Spanish (A la Nanita and Una vez en Deciembre.) Eventually, I'll show her Spanish language movies and shows.  

I've already mentioned to husband that I like the idea of introducing her to a new country or culture each month as she grows up. I'm thinking of playing music, preparing one or two meals, watching a movie, reading a book, etc. Not perfect, but a nice way to introduce her to other ways of life.

I'd recommend that parents check their public libraries if they're interested in exposing their kid to a foreign language. My library has a good section of childrens' books in various foreign languages. It's not going to make a kid bilingual, but it's better than nothing.

Just now, Gobbles said:

I did not have the best (longest) school education due to my health problems, but I think I learned English for 13 years. Add 3 years for people with normal school "careers". Four years of elementary school with very basic English and nine years worth of classes several times per week. 

How many hours per week do you learn a foreign language in the US?

It depends very much on the state. In my state, you took a foreign language each day. Class periods were 45 minutes or an hour? So, anywhere between 3.75 and 5 hours a week?

[Million Children For Jesus]

6 minutes ago, Gobbles said:

How many hours per week do you learn a foreign language in the US?

50 minutes per day, 5 days per week, 18 weeks per semester, 4 semesters. It is most often memorization drills and not conversational, so after several years, students can read some, write a little, comprehend less spoken language than they read or write, and possibly not really speak at all.

I had a college professor who gave us cookies each time we spoke in class, and our grade was based on how many cookies we earned. The entire class was speaking French by the end of the semester. I got an A.  J'adore les cookies!

[backyard sylph]

12 minutes ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

50 minutes per day, 5 days per week, 18 weeks per semester, 4 semesters. It is most often memorization drills and not conversational, so after several years, students can read some, write a little, comprehend less spoken language than they read or write, and possibly not really speak at all.

I had a college professor who gave us cookies each time we spoke in class, and our grade was based on how many cookies we earned. The entire class was speaking French by the end of the semester. I got an A.  J'adore les cookies!

Do you mean to say two semesters? Because that's a really long year. :-)

That's mostly how it was for me. The speaking part did come pretty easily to me, but listening to it is another matter. I would have done better had there been cookies.

[Screamapillar]

When I was in elementary school (in South Carolina) my school had an experimental program with teaching Spanish. I don't remember exactly how it went, but we were taught Spanish in conjunction with a couple of our other subjects. Like, we'd have a history lesson about George Washington and then have a little Spanish lesson that involved the history lesson. I have absolutely no idea if that benefited me, or anyone. Language classes were always my favorite and it was a requirement for high school graduation to have at least 2 courses of a language. Between Middle School, High School, and College I took more courses and years than I can remember of Spanish, French and German. Can I hold a conversation with a native speaker in any of those languages? Not Really. But I can read them really well.

I'd like for my daughter to start learning some languages at a young age. My FIL speaks Mandarin to her and she seems impressed (she's only 10 months though, so she's impressed with most things).

 

[Million Children For Jesus]

6 minutes ago, backyard sylph said:

Do you mean to say two semesters? Because that's a really long year. :-)

No, it was four semesters, which is two years, not one. I guess I should have mentioned that part. There are only two semesters in a school year. Fall semester and Spring semester. 

[Gobbles]

21 minutes ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

50 minutes per day, 5 days per week, 18 weeks per semester, 4 semesters. It is most often memorization drills and not conversational, so after several years, students can read some, write a little, comprehend less spoken language than they read or write, and possibly not really speak at all.

I had a college professor who gave us cookies each time we spoke in class, and our grade was based on how many cookies we earned. The entire class was speaking French by the end of the semester. I got an A.  J'adore les cookies!

Hm, sounds like you have definitely the necessary hours to learn a language, but the way the teachers try to teach it is kind of wrong? Speaking was a huge part (classes were English only) and we also had to listen to CDs with native speakers. Learn vocabulary/grammar by writing it all down. Translate and write stories, either written or spoken. Some schools offer bilingual classes, where you have biology or other subjects in English.

But I guess a huge part is also that as a English speaker you don't have the real need for another language. Here you grow up with the knowledge that you have to learn English, because you will need it sooner or later. And if it is in Spain or any other country while you are on holiday. Some speak German, but English is the language among the younger generation.  

EDIT: It also sounds like students in the US don't stick with a language for a long time. Here a class of German and next year a class of Spanish. Whereas in Germany you are stuck with a language you choose for a long time. You can drop it later, but only after a few years. 

[backyard sylph]

Just now, Million Children For Jesus said:

No, it was four semesters, which is two years, not one. I guess I should have mentioned that part. There are only two semesters in a school year. Fall semester and Spring semester. 

That makes perfect sense, then. I was reading it in order for a school year.

[Antipatriarch]

17 minutes ago, Million Children For Jesus said:

50 minutes per day, 5 days per week, 18 weeks per semester, 4 semesters. It is most often memorization drills and not conversational, so after several years, students can read some, write a little, comprehend less spoken language than they read or write, and possibly not really speak at all.

Yeah, for me, French 1 and 2 (first two years; one class period per day) were mostly vocab, learning tenses and how to conjugate verbs, etc.; the structure of the language. It wasn't until we got to French 3 that all communication in class was conducted in French, we were reading French novels and newspapers and listening to people speaking it etc. -- that was the point when I could converse for longer stretches, started to "think in French" if you will. This is the old-fashioned approach, rather than immersive "in at the deep end" which I think would go faster.

It's also important to be exposed to lots of different speakers; you get too used to your teacher's pronunciation. When I'd meet someone else or hear audio of someone else speaking, I'd struggle even though I knew all the words.

7 minutes ago, Screamapillar said:

When I was in elementary school (in South Carolina) my school had an experimental program with teaching Spanish. I don't remember exactly how it went, but we were taught Spanish in conjunction with a couple of our other subjects. Like, we'd have a history lesson about George Washington and then have a little Spanish lesson that involved the history lesson. I have absolutely no idea if that benefited me, or anyone.

I read one time about a school somewhere in Europe where every subject was taught in a different language. The kids were completely comfortable only speaking French in math class, or German in history class, etc. If you do this for your whole K12 experience you'd come away knowing several languages in addition to the subjects.

[Lurky]

5 hours ago, Buzzard said:

Silly @Lurky!  The bible was written in ENGLISH, dontcha know?  The Holy King James bible is the only version that matters, its in english, and thats all they need! Those other heathen languages arent worth learning, just enough to teach the silly brown people the proper language, ENGLISH!

Of course!  Forgive me, oh Buzzard! 

(I have this awesome vision of the Bible translated into Duggarisms....  Like... erm.... on the 5th day it was like...

[apandaaries]

1 hour ago, fluffernutter said:

 Maybe it's something kids need to learn all through school. 

Language learning becomes significantly more challenging following puberty.  Our brains have amazing neuroplasticity, but many pathways become much more familiar during the pubescent period.  Our brains begin life with the ability to hear and understand different sounds, but repetition of sounds throughout childhood means those pathways are strengthened.  Other areas are pruned away (think about rolling Spanish R's, or the way that "l" and "r" sounds can be so similar for people whose first languages are from Asian areas -- many of those languages don't differentiate between "l" and "r" sounds significantly, so it's much more challenging to learn those sounds following puberty. Some languages don't differentiate much between "p" and "b," or "d" and "t." Try making some of the sounds and notice how your mouth movies differently; it's interesting to notice how subtle some differences are).  http://extension.uga.edu/publications/detail.cfm?number=C1053-05

By contrast, young kids have developing brains that are eager to adapt to and learn from their environments.  They can notice subtle sound differences and pick up new vocabulary because their brains are designed to do that at that point.  Sadly, American public education systems overwhelmingly tend to have students begin second language learning in high school, post-puberty, completely missing a crucial learning period.

Our education systems also discourage multilingual families from using their native languages through politically motivated (rather than science or research-based) education policy.  If children aren't familiar with English when they get to school, they often wind up in ESL classes with insufficient support, and many ESL families have been or are encouraged to use English at home.  It's easy for them to then fall behind in their English-only classes while also losing their home/family language.  There's a term, Generation 1.5, for people who fall into this peculiarly American area: https://www.deanza.edu/english/resources/generation.html

The USA is actually very linguistically rich, with many dialects and languages throughout the country.  But there's also a lot of cultural isolation/segregation here. Depending on where people live, there are  plenty of opportunities to meet with others and speak other languages...but those opportunities are rarely taken, as a whole.  

I do know of someone who had to do a Spanish language immersion for an M. Div. program.  She was sent to Los Angeles to live in a house that included Mexican family members and El Salvadorean boarders.  So she had Spanish language immersion AND learned about how each country approached the language differently, because of course regional variations also exist for Spanish.  There are also spots in the US where Mandarin, Korean, Thai, or any number of other languages will serve you better than English, but for native English speakers, it's rather rare to be in those areas.

[eveandadam]

On 2.7.2017 at 3:32 PM, Carm_88 said:

 "So how's your sex life?"

The room?

[GreyhoundFan]

I took four years of Spanish in high school, the fourth of which was taught entirely in Spanish. However, until our family hosted an exchange student from South America, I didn't speak it fluently. Our exchange student was supposed to speak fluent English, but could only say a few phrases when she got off the plane. My mom spoke no Spanish, so I had to translate constantly and got the full immersion experience. That built up my fluency quickly. I took a couple of years of Spanish in college, but struggled, because my teacher was US-born and I couldn't understand his accent -- my high school teacher and exchange student were both from the same country, so I was used to their accents and idioms. Luckily, the graduate assistant in college was from the same country, so I would always ask him what the teacher was saying. Sometimes, he wasn't sure either. It's been over 30 years and I don't use it daily, so I struggle to come up with words, but can read Spanish text fairly well and usually understand conversations.

It's unfortunate that more people in the US don't take multiple years of a foreign language. I feel like Spanish, along with the German I learned while living there in my youth, added so much to my education.

[So-Virgin-It-Hurts]

9 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

This is hard, y'all. When you've lived outside the USA for any amount of time (say - more than a couple of months, even), coming back here sucks. :/

I'll agree with this.  I just moved back to the US the first of June after living in Japan for five years.  Just in time to experience the full-on embarrassment of the Man-Baby-in-Chief.

[HermioneSparrow]

"Parajos" doesn't exist @VelociRapture more like "Pájaros" (pronunciation emphasis on "Pá")

Public education is not the best, almost nobody got out of school being fluent on any language. I learned English because I went to a Catholic bilingual school and lived abroad in the U.K.

 

 

[ven]

I live in Belgium , the trilingual country I speak fluently Dutch , french and German . The extra language we learn at school is English ( UK not us) ifeel very blessed , although it was quite hard in school growing up .