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1 hour ago, eveandadam said:

So was the wedding coordinator Laura D. , Jana's...?

Jana's friend Maisespace. 

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2 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

Not really. Still in the cult, likely voted for Trump. Don't be fooled, this is exactly how they plan to win the culture wars, by appearing "nice". Wouldn't want my daughter to marry him.

 

This is true. But I think in the Fundie world he would be a catch. 

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Not defending any fundie asshats for being fundie asshats, but if I was somewhere and a glitter cannon went off (somewhere outside a place where you might expect a bunch of glitter to fall on you, like a Taylor Swift concert or something) I would probably have a look on my face like, "Holy shit, glitter!" too.

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5 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

They wouldn't have printed "Joy Anna Duggar" if her last name had already been changed. So I honestly don't think she changed anything prior to marriage. If they're still out of the country and the certificate isn't available yet, then it's likely that she still hasn't legally changed her name.

Joy is traveling with all her paper work stating her name is Joy Anna Duggar, I left the country the day after I got married but I had to make sure all my identification was the same and had my maiden name on it, passport DL you can't legally change your name on documents until you get your marriage license back, once you do you have to go to your local Federal Admin building and get it changed on your social security card.  I can't remember how long it took, I got married 21 years ago, but while I had changed my name it wasn't legally changed until I filled paperwork with Social Security Administration.  Thousands of women marry every year and change their names, it isn't complicated if you don't over think it. 

I'm trying to figure out how we got from Joy getting over excited about using her married name to them secretly marrying sooner and all that. She's a hot horny teenager in lust with a hot dude that she had to marry, in fundy land and non fundy land young women dream of changing their last names and write it out in all different ways.  She was just over zealous. 

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11 hours ago, FloraDoraDolly said:

Some ministers don't spend a lot of time *in* church, but they're busy visiting parishioners in the hospital or in the nursing home, going to workshops/seminars, participating in joint ventures with other churches, working on the Sunday sermon in their home office, feeding homeless people on the streets, etc. Taking SOME time for study and reflection is good, but why so much?

My church has about 50 regular members/attendees. It's a United Methodist congregation, so we have a full time pastor. She is only in the church office 15 hours/week, but she is also responsible for the business operations of a women's shelter affiliated with the church. Some denominations don't have full time pastoral staff. My granddad was Freewill Baptist, and his church never had a full time staff. The pastor always had a full time job outside of the church. The deacons were responsible for organizing/delegating everything else to members of the congregation who volunteered.

10 hours ago, SayWhat said:

Joe and Kendra are a cute couple.  They do seem to have chemistry.    Joy & Austen  approved  of  Joe's proposal occurring at their wedding reception,  so  I won't snark too much on it.    It was creative, to have Joy give the bouquet to Kendra.   However,  if I was Kendra and in her circle of fundie's , Duggars & Bates, it would be a little downer of a proposal.   So far,  all the proposals, sans Anna's, have been fairly elaborate.  Kendra's had to share her marriage proposal day with a wedding and have nothing particularly thoughtful occur.   

Joe does not strike me as the type of guy to plan an elaborate scavenger hunt proposal. Hopefully Kendra understands that and loves him for who his is. She seemed pleased with the proposal.

8 hours ago, VeryNikeSeamstress said:

I wondered if that 'loose knees, don't stiffen up' advice to Austin was code for 'don't pop a boner on the altar at your wedding.'

It's pretty standard advice for anyone standing on stage, especially if they aren't used to it. At one friend's wedding a few years ago, we were all anxiously watching one of the bridesmaids - she has a tendency to lock her knees, and it was a very long Greek Orthodox weddings. She started swaying at one point, and the rest of us were ready to catch her.

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12 hours ago, socalrules said:

 Someone earlier in the thread posted that Jeremy said he doesn't spend much time at the church office and spends 30-40 hours a week studying/writing.

Pastors need to prepare for their sermons for Sunday, so it takes time to determine what they will preach to their congregations. Yes, it does consist of studying and writing and usually praying.

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In very large churches I've been a part of, there have been multiple pastors. One of which will be dubbed the "preaching/teaching pastor" and his job was entirely to study and prepare sermons. Other pastors fulfilled the ministerial roles of visiting parishioners. But Jeremy's church is itty bitty so I don't see that being the case.

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9 hours ago, trustworthy said:

OMG, they're reproducing!  Pretty soon they'll be eleventy mustard cardigans.

A quiver full of mustard cardigans. Rufus must be ecstatic. PRAISE BE!!!!!

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Doesn't Jeremy's church only have a dozen families?

How many hospital visits could there possibly be?

His sermon amounts to writing 1 paper a week.

If he has any sense and the ability to contain his wandering thoughts, how hard can it be?

40 hours? Eight hours a day X 5 (a bit fewer if he requires 6 days), writing a sermon?

 

 

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Just now, SassyPants said:

Doesn't Jeremy's church only have a dozen families?

My question is, how do they live off the offerings of 12 families? Even if they all gave 15$ a week in adverage (they don't live in a rich part of town) that is 180$ a week and 720$ a month.

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It's a church plant. The larger "parent" congregation is almost certainly contributing to his salary as the new congregation grows. They also aren't living off his salary alone - they get TLC money. They live in a relatively inexpensive part of the US - from a quick superficial search, they are probably pay around $700/month for rent. That seems to be the going rate for a two bedroom apartment in the area.

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I just don't think it takes 40 weeks to prepare one sermon. It doesn't appear his church has services everyday. Many churches have multiple services a week and the sermons aren't all the same. I am Catholic and priests perform multiple masses a week, sometimes more than one a day and their homilies aren't all the same. No one is spending 40 hours working and praying on one sermon a week that isn't even for Easter or Christmas. Why doesn't he seem to be doing anything for the community like food drives or helping the homeless find shelter? Many churches of all denominations have some type of outreach to help those that need more than spiritual enlightenment. I think if Jeremy was doing that we would hear about it. 

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17 hours ago, Yaoichan12 said:

Just starting to watch Joys wedding episode. First thought as Michelle's friend is setting up everything...why not just have an outdoors wedding. Seems like such a waste of all those flowers and hay. Just go outside 

I agree with you on this.    And who is going to have to clean up all that hay on the floor of the church?    it was all over the place.    What a mess!  And then there was the confetti...........    

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I'm not really surprised that it takes Jeremy that long to write a sermon. It's gotta take multiple hours of mental gymnastics to convince yourself (and others!) that Catholicism is pagan.

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16 minutes ago, sunshine said:

Is it safe to assume that Michelle dyed her mothers of the bride dress? I did not think it was a color blue.

I'm betting she bought the same dress in a different color. Those types of dresses are typically polyester, which are not conducive to dying.

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12 hours ago, CrazyMumma said:

hahaha my husband told me before we married that he has fainted from keeping his legs stiff up the front... so he kept telling me to keep my knees loose and talked about how he needed to make sure he did that.   For some reason it causes him to faint... usually blood tests make me faint

Yep. That's exactly it. Sometimes locking your knees can cause blood to pool in the legs and not perfuse the brain, thus, fainting. We tell students coming to the OR to observe not to lock their knees. Lol

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I actually like that Jeremy spends so much time studying (and I'm Catholic, so I know he's reading up on how to make us ebil Catholics see the light) 

It at least shows he's trying to educate himself and get a handle on what he wants to say. I have more respect for that than, say, Ben's father who writes devotional stuff that just tends to be him rambling for pages about nothing in particular, or Dereck who just blindly preaches by reciting the KJ bible. If Jeremy is attempting to add theology to his sermons, as well as educate himself, I can't fault him for it. Maybe he'll learn something about tolerance. 

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2 minutes ago, SuchABlessing said:

I actually like that Jeremy spends so much time studying (and I'm Catholic, so I know he's reading up on how to make us ebil Catholics see the light) 

It at least shows he's trying to educate himself and get a handle on what he wants to say. I have more respect for that than, say, Ben's father who writes devotional stuff that just tends to be him rambling for pages about nothing in particular, or Dereck who just blindly preaches by reciting the KJ bible. If Jeremy is attempting to add theology to his sermons, as well as educate himself, I can't fault him for it. Maybe he'll learn something about tolerance. 

This. My dad is a pastor and spends more time reading and studying the Bible than anyone else I've ever seen. He isn't necessarily taking 30-40 hours to write a sermon but rather continually learning, studying, and meditating. Much of which can be done at home nowadays with a laptop, cell phone, and an internet connection making a church office mostly unnecessary. 

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I'm not going to find fault in Jeremy just yet. He's providing for his wife so I'll wait to judge him for anything other than his rotten beliefs. 

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3 hours ago, socalrules said:

I just don't think it takes 40 weeks to prepare one sermon. It doesn't appear his church has services everyday. Many churches have multiple services a week and the sermons aren't all the same. I am Catholic and priests perform multiple masses a week, sometimes more than one a day and their homilies aren't all the same. No one is spending 40 hours working and praying on one sermon a week that isn't even for Easter or Christmas. Why doesn't he seem to be doing anything for the community like food drives or helping the homeless find shelter? Many churches of all denominations have some type of outreach to help those that need more than spiritual enlightenment. I think if Jeremy was doing that we would hear about it. 

You said 40 weeks, but I'm assuming you meant hours,  and in a non denominational church like that the service is mostly sermon.  Not the 10 minutes you get from the Priest in between the other stuff. So yes writing studying and getting all the info for a sermon could take 20-30 maybe even 40 hours to write, depending on the length of the sermon, the depth you want to go into and the importance you are emphasizing on a particular passage. a 50 minute sermon is not just pulled from thin air. 

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5 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Joy is traveling with all her paper work stating her name is Joy Anna Duggar, I left the country the day after I got married but I had to make sure all my identification was the same and had my maiden name on it, passport DL you can't legally change your name on documents until you get your marriage license back, once you do you have to go to your local Federal Admin building and get it changed on your social security card.  I can't remember how long it took, I got married 21 years ago, but while I had changed my name it wasn't legally changed until I filled paperwork with Social Security Administration.  Thousands of women marry every year and change their names, it isn't complicated if you don't over think it. 

I'm trying to figure out how we got from Joy getting over excited about using her married name to them secretly marrying sooner and all that. She's a hot horny teenager in lust with a hot dude that she had to marry, in fundy land and non fundy land young women dream of changing their last names and write it out in all different ways.  She was just over zealous. 

Yes, I know. I was married in 2015 and went through the whole name change stuff in early 2016. I was explaining exactly what you said to the other poster - that she most likely hadn't changed her name because of the announcement in the paper regarding the license, as well as the fact that they're out of the country and unable to take any of the steps to change her name.

If I remember right, it took around one or two weeks to get the marriage certificate and less than a month (or right around a month) to receive my new Social Security card. Once I got that it was easy enough changing everything else. 

I agree on your last paragraph though. I think one poster mentioned they had friends who had changed their names prior to marriage and another poster ran with it. Can't remember - lack of sleep and coffee.

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On 6/12/2017 at 6:56 PM, KelseyAnn said:

Am i the only one with the pet peeve of having people announce a couple as Mr. and Mrs. man's first name last name? 

No. You're not. It's a strong symbol of the Christian patriarchy. It denotes ownership of the female- a transfer of property from father to husband. 

It evidences the swallowing of the woman's identity into that of her husband. Her headship. 

You know I've seen a lot of misty-eyed posts in the last thread about how cute they are, how they seem to be good together, how sweet the ceremony was, etc. And yeah, I think most of us get sucked in (I did), by the sentimentality and the age-old ritual we all are familiar with. Because we are human. And so are they, despicable religious and political views notwithstanding.

So it is easy to get confused and buy into the romance and when we do that we start to try to justify what's happening here and see the good in it and them.  I that's natural and kind and frankly much more than they would ever give any of us if witnessing one of our non-religious, or  Catholic, or pagan or same sex marriages. 

So while I get misty when I see the groom welling up with true emotion or amused when I hear the bride making good-natured quips that show her personality, I'm not persuaded. 

Are they human? Are there good things about them? Do they have moments of joy and happiness and snatches of agency? Yes.

But I can't forget that Joy is only 19, with no real choice as to the trajectory of her life. That the dictates of her culture mean she has to spend a lifetime with the first dude she has a crush on. That her will, her wants, her independence is never allowed to form and with this marriage is permanently subsumed by the will, wants and "leadership" of her headship, to whom she must submit. 

And further, that this young emotional man who seems so thrilled to be married, has taken his role as a future headship and leader in the patriarchy, very seriously. And that if he turns out to be a stern and dominating and humorless man who is unconcerned with who his wife is or who she could have become as an independent adult human being, that's who she will be stuck with  for life.

For endless hours together raising children and talking about life. For grim moments of sex with a person who has possibly outgrown his affection for her and for whom she may lose affection for. For years of beinf repeatedly bloated by pregnancy after pregnancy and worn down by the crush of caring for baby after baby and nonstop housework. For decades during which she has secret moments of despair wondering if there is nothing more to life than drudgery. 

Is it possible that this won't be her fate? Yes. But that wedding gave me a lot of clues about what they expect for themselves and what he and she expect for her and much of that was foreboding to me. 

Unlike others, I saw something else when he graciously told her to choose for herself what to do with her veil  Right before that she asked his advice on how to style her hair (gross).  And he actually and pompously turned her head physically and inspected it and with a bit of frown, looked disapprovingly at the clip in her long hair and asked something about a possible braid.

That disgusted me, notwithstanding his later, charitable statement that she should choose for herself whether or not to wear a veil  

There were many other moment that sent off alarm bells in my head surrounding the ceremony, and confirmed my sense of foreboding about the likely life this voiceless, powerless young woman faces.

I am not fooled  by their humanness. 

 

 

 

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