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lilwriter85

Christian soccer player withdraws as US team is set to wear LGBT pride jerseys

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lilwriter85

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/06/12/christian-soccer-player-withdraws-as-us-team-is-set-to-wear-lgbt-pride-jerseys/


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Christian soccer player Jaelene Hinkle has withdrawn from the U.S. Soccer team just two weeks after the organization announced that members of both the men’s and women’s teams will be donning rainbow-colored jerseys in honor of LGBT pride month.

Hinkle, a former defender for the North Carolina Courage, left the national team for “personal reasons,” according to a U.S. Soccer news release. Before leaving, she was on the roster to play friendlies against Sweden and Norway this month.

 

 

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Sad
Destiny

If it's because of teh ebil gheys that she's quitting, she can fuck right off. 

On the off chance that there really is a personal challenge, I hope whatever it is works out. 

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Rachel333

If she's on the US women's soccer team hasn't she already been playing with a bunch of gay teammates?

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louisa05
10 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

If she's on the US women's soccer team hasn't she already been playing with a bunch of gay teammates?

She may be in denial about it. My raised evangelical, still kind of conservative friend from college is under the impression that she doesn't know anyone who is gay. I'll throw out names of people who were out in college and she'll say "well, it was probably just a phase" or "A lot of the theater people were doing it; it was a fad". Then I'll say, "well, he had wedding photos on Facebook a year ago and there was no bride" and she'll kind of shrug it off and go back to general denial.  She lives in the kind of extremely rural isolated area that most people who are at all different get out of as fast as they can. And growing up, she was pretty isolated in a small town and a church bubble. I love her and I honestly think that if she lived in an area where she interacted with a more diverse population, it would change her. She was friendly with, never critical of, and worked closely in the music department with a number of gay fellow students when we were in college. She never openly had a problem with them; she just seems to think that being gay was not a real thing for them and is not for anyone else. Had they not been the only openly gay people she has ever encountered in her life and had those relationships not been transitory, it is possible that her views would be different. 

 

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Fenchurch

I read this article a few days ago from Facebook, and I'll say here what I said there.

I won't hate on her choice to withdraw.  She's not asking them to change, just ruining her own career.  That's fine, whatever, I don't care.  People have been making dumb decisions since the beginning of time.

I just always want to understand why THIS cause.  I'm probably repeating myself, because it is such a conundrum to me.  I've asked fundies before in comments but I've either been deleted as a troll (I am not, I really want to know the reason), simply not answered or given the "The Bible says it's wrong" stock standard answer.

I feel like if they put the same effort and hate into the exploitation of children, it might actually make a real difference to a real problem.  With the added bonus that people who buy and sell children deserve to be hated.

 

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Howl
5 hours ago, Fenchurch said:

With the added bonus that people who buy and sell children deserve to be hated.

Off topic, sort of, but when the CNN chyron scrolled  the news that a man who advertised and sold two girls for sex was sentenced to life in prison.  I gave a quiet cheer that justice won out. 

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Waffle Time
catlady
5 hours ago, Fenchurch said:

I just always want to understand why THIS cause.  I'm probably repeating myself, because it is such a conundrum to me.  I've asked fundies before but I've either been deleted as a troll (I am not, I really want to know the reason), simply not answered or given the "The Bible says it's wrong" stock standard answer.

none of them has been able to answer my question either:  in what manner do my friends' or relatives' marriages hurt *you*?  because their marriages are not hurting me in any way.  

and Fenchurch, i love both your user name and your avatar! 

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louisa05

@Fenchurch When I taught from A Beka social studies textbooks in Christian school the enemy was communism. (This was in the mid to late 90s--but our books were outdated--the government book I had was from 1982, world history from 1986) Communists were destroying America from within and from outside. Every chapter of the government book had at least one sidebar about evil, godless communists. The texts had weird references to saving the world from communism throughout. The weirdest one was in a section about South Africa in the world history book which endorsed Apartheid as necessary to preventing communism from overtaking that country and then called it a "bastion of democracy" and insisting that if "liberal humanitarians" (and the text put it in quotes) got their way, it would end up a communist country dominated by the Soviet Union. 

So the big enemy of evangelicalism/fundamentalism was at one time communism. But the collapse of the Soviet Union made that a weak bogey man. They needed a new scapegoat. It was literally while I was at the Christian school (1994-2000) that I saw homosexuality emerging as the new scapegoat. Their leaders began talking about it; the culture warriors began focusing on it; the school itself began to make policies about what to do with gay students (one was expelled as an 8th grader my last year there--one of the final straws for me, along with a staff meeting in which we had to discuss what to do about a senior girl who read and thought too much--those two things did it, I had to get the hell out of there even if it meant being unemployed and living with my parents for awhile). I think that this was helped along by a wider cultural acceptance emerging at that exact time along with a renewed movement for gay rights which began to push for equal marriage (or at least at that time recognized domestic partnerships). The school itself openly endorsed taking on things like protesting domestic partnerships and companies that offered insurance benefits to partners of gay employees. 

Searching about this a moment ago, I ran across an article online called "Scapegoating for Unity" which reviews a book about English Evangelicals and homosexuality. I believe that title summarizes it. The leaders who started this need a scapegoat to unify the very diverse world of evangelicalism. There are huge and tiny (but dearly held) differences between the many, many evangelical and fundamentalist groups in terms of theology and worship practice. Get them all together and they will fight endlessly about those things. Believe me, that school had at one point 62 churches and 28 denominations represented. Every chapel service was a battle site. Every rule was a battle (since everyone wanted them based on the Bible and everyone interpreted it differently). There was endless fighting over which translation of the Bible was acceptable. These groups are hard to unify. A scapegoat is helpful. 

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CTRLZero
4 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

So the big enemy of evangelicalism/fundamentalism was at one time communism. But the collapse of the Soviet Union made that a weak bogey man. They needed a new scapegoat.

"Scapegoating for Unity" -- This is fascinating, thank you.  Food for thought.  Maybe it's time for a new scapegoat to appear--inadequate education; lack of health care; hunger...lots of worthy scapegoats out there.

 

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Jasmar

I've only left Evangelicalism in the last year or two. I can tell you two things: 

One, evangelicals still absolutely believe that homosexuality is a choice. No controversy at all for them.

Two, the fact that "the Bible says so" is the reason why they oppose it. I get this argument because if you're basing your belief system, your worldview, on what you have no doubt is the word of God himself, of course that's enough for you.

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Jencendiary

Ms. Thing is in the wrong damned sport, then.

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Fenchurch

@louisa05 Thanks, that really does help!!  It doesn't excuse the wretched behaviour of some of them, but I suppose when you've been told your whole life "this is the devil incarnate" and never been allowed or taught critical thinking, there is no other way than to be a sheep.

I still just wish the scapegoat could be an actual devil.

Apartheid was strongly endorsed by the church here.  I was a child during the worst of it, but the church was a massive presence in my life, even though my parents were never religious.  I identified as a Christian through almost all of my childhood/teen years and can still specifically remember when the first seed of doubt was planted.

In Grade 10 all school students were required to go on a mandatory "Veld School" (Bush School) where we did some basic camping but were mostly subjected to various sermons.  I don't remember the content of any of them except for this day.  The preacher was talking about how the song "I want to break free" by Queen was an ode to Satan about how they wanted to break free from God and become Satan worshipers.  And if we listen to this song, we would soon fall on our knees dedicating our lives to the dark one himself.

Now, my mother and brother were massive Queen fans, and my moms favourite song was "I want to break free" and almost every Saturday morning was greeted by the song blasting at full volume on the record player.

And that was my 'aha' moment.  The "I've listened to this song a literal thousand times and not once has a God/Satan power struggle even occurred to me" moment.  That was the exact point that I started doubting the words and really evaluating things.  It's been a journey, and my mind has not always been open but I feel content with my belief structure now.

 

 

@catlady  Exactly!!  WHY DOES IT MATTER TO YOU.  What anyone wears, who they love, how many children they have. WHHHHY??

And thank you.  The answer will always be 49 :my_smile:  As a card carrying cat lady, right back at ya!

 

 

 

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JermajestyDuggar
On 6/13/2017 at 10:09 AM, louisa05 said:

across an article online called "Scapegoating for Unity" which reviews a book about English Evangelicals and homosexuality. I believe that title summarizes it. The leaders who started this need a scapegoat to unify the very diverse world of evangelicalism. There are huge and tiny (but dearly held) differences between the many, many evangelical and fundamentalist groups in terms of theology and worship practice. Get them all together and they will fight endlessly about those things. Believe me, that school had at one point 62 churches and 28 denominations represented. Every chapel service was a battle site. Every rule was a battle (since everyone wanted them based on the Bible and everyone interpreted it differently). There was endless fighting over which translation of the Bible was acceptable. These groups are hard to unify. A scapegoat is helpful. 

I think this is the tactic of The Activist Mommy. Her followers all seem to have different religious backgrounds but she unites them all through their hate of LGBT community. It's been her major focus for awhile. If her leg humpers actually looked into all of her beliefs, they would probably drop her in a minute.

I think Many of them like hating on the LGBT community. They like being different. They like being in the minority and fighting the gay agenda. They love being the persecuted Christian. I have seen so much of it that I genuinely think many enjoy playing the victim and saying over and over again that the end is near. Drama drama drama. 

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mausi

I don't want to give away too much here since I feel strange coming at the crossroads of my internet interests and my real life (lol), but I am actually quite aware of this situation, to put it blandly. Hinkle's mother and aunt were also both on social media Tweeting/Facebooking about it: how proud they are of her for sticking up for her religious beliefs against the bullies who want to push sins, that sort of talk. I believe most of the rants have since been deleted, although don't quote me on that. 

All but one NWSL team have a Pride Night (Washington Spirit do not, for the reason you can all guess); Hinkle plays for NC Courage, it will be interesting to see if she suits up for that game or sits it out. 

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Lurky

I can't even imagine how horrible it was for her LGB team-mates to have her spouting these opinions about them, as if it's completely impersonal.

On 13/06/2017 at 5:08 PM, Jasmar said:

One, evangelicals still absolutely believe that homosexuality is a choice. No controversy at all for them.

Given that in the USA, LGB people can be fired and evicted for being gay, the incidences of violence against us are so high, Governments at national, state and local level are working to hack back what rights we have, why do they think people are choosing to be gay?  Hell, if it really was a choice, I'd probably pick straight as it's just so much easier, even here in the UK where we have a ton ore rights and protections, and aren't facing bills where people can deny us services like medical care, ambulances, banking etc etc just because of who we love?

I just don't understand the logic at all, and I've never seen it explained beyond "because sin" and some really lurid ideas about how much better gay sex must be than straight, despite the depravity.  But how do they explain LGB people who are celibate through choice or just because they haven't found someone, or because holy shit, life's stressful and I'm knackered all the time, can we just sit on the sofa and watch the Bake Off, again?, and so they end up not having sex for ages, just like heterosexual couples can do?

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Jasmar

My experience is that they believe that anyone separated from God (i.e., hasn't come to a relationship with God through faith in Jesus) can't actually see clearly to make good choices regarding sin. So, for example, someone living "the gay lifestyle" is blinded and can't see that what they're choosing is wrong, until they hopefully come to the end of themselves and turn to Jesus for redemption.

For the record, I've left Evangelicalism. I don't believe in a great deal of what the Evangelical Lifestyle teaches. But I'm not sure where I fall out on Jesus. I'm not dismissing that aspect at this point.

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Lurky
3 hours ago, Jasmar said:

So, for example, someone living "the gay lifestyle" is blinded and can't see that what they're choosing is wrong, until they hopefully come to the end of themselves and turn to Jesus for redemption.

But why would we choose to be LGBT, when so many people hate us just for existing?  Genuinely don't understand them!  Or is the theory that I don't know it's a choice I'm making, but they're enlightened, so can see what I can't, and that they can see how if I just decided to, I'd be straight?

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smittykins

There are those who concede that you may be born with the "inclination" to be gay, but that you can always choose whether or not to act on it.

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Jasmar

They will often think as somewhat akin to alcoholism: as in, even *if* there may be a genetic component, you can choose whether to live an alcoholic lifestyle or abstain. I know a few gay men who are celibate in this vein, because they see their orientation as a type of brokenness. 

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louisa05
2 hours ago, Lurky said:

But why would we choose to be LGBT, when so many people hate us just for existing?  Genuinely don't understand them!  Or is the theory that I don't know it's a choice I'm making, but they're enlightened, so can see what I can't, and that they can see how if I just decided to, I'd be straight?

My friend has not encountered out gay people in her daily life since college and did not encounter them prior to college. That is not to say a gay person has never crossed her path since college, but not out people that she interacts with on any personal level. She lives in an extremely isolated rural area. It is a two hour drive to get to a city over 50,000. A four hour drive to the nearest cities over 100,000. 

Because of that, she is able to live with the notion that being gay is something that some people adopted in college when there were a lot of other people doing the same. This is helped along by the fact that back in the early 90s, people were more likely to come out in college or later than in high school (I know people I went to high school with or are in the same age range as me who are gay, not a single one was out in high school). So there were often incidents of students coming out on our campus. She then interpreted it as not only a choice, but as something of a fad that she assumed they would move on from. Like Doc Martens and grunge or such things. When faced with the reality that those that I have come across via social media or at alumni events or something have not "moved on", she will usually change the subject. She can't seem to process that information as it challenges the world view she was taught. 

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Lurky
 

They will often think as somewhat akin to alcoholism: as in, even *if* there may be a genetic component, you can choose whether to live an alcoholic lifestyle or abstain. I know a few gay men who are celibate in this vein, because they see their orientation as a type of brokenness. 

There is a world of difference between abstaining from alcohol, and choosing to be alone, without human intimacy and love, forever.  I know a lot of people are single against their will, but for someone who's not asexual/aromantic, it's one of those things that's super-easy to suggest other people do, without ever having to do it oneself.

And it doesn't even make sense, either, because it's not like the Fundies ever say people who are LGB and single are sin-free - or people who are in relationships that for some reason don't involve sex are OK.  I've said this here before, but because of illness and so on, I've gone long periods of time without sex with my partner.  Am I OK in those patches, or am I sinning just as much all the time

(I know you're just reporting on the views, BTW, I just don't understand!)

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Jasmar

No, I get it. The easy answer, for the evangelical way of thinking is that you're not okay at all without a relationship with Jesus. You may be a lovely person, but you're enslaved to sin and (ultimately) death. The idea is that after being reconciled to God through belief and trust in Jesus, you (or anyone) will begin to turn away from sin in your life. "The Gay Lifestyle" would fall in that category.

Im sorry, I know how it all sounds. 

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alexandracabot

I can't imagine that it will be easy or even possible for her to come back to the team after this.

I follow the USWNT really closely, and she's not a great player, relatively speaking — usually a weak link on defense. It was always mysterious to me why she ended up on the roster. Hopefully this spells the end of her national career and she just fades into the background.

Edited by alexandracabot

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mausi
14 hours ago, alexandracabot said:

I can't imagine that it will be easy or even possible for her to come back to the team after this.

I follow the USWNT really closely, and she's not a great player, relatively speaking — usually a weak link on defense. It was always mysterious to me why she ended up on the roster. Hopefully this spells the end of her national career and she just fades into the background.

I would bank on one more call up, to prove she isn't cut off due to 'political reasons' that will turn into Pinoe-Kneeling-2.0. 

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EmiGirl

I fully support her right not to support something she believes in, but I also fully support the right of others to say what they think about her actions.

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