Amy and the Pickle 5: Trekking to TLC

[JesSky03]

On 10/12/2019 at 3:07 PM, OldFadedStar said:

The hospital I gave birth at did 24 hours after birth or 48 after a c section. 
the part that sucked for me was I gave birth at 3:46am on Tuesday morning so the earliest I would have been able to go home was Wednesday morning. Due to elevated billirubin/a bladder issue I had it was Thursday night before we went home and that was with me begging to go home. I got sent home with a catheter and had to go get checked out Monday 

I was induced at 6am Monday (didn't give birth until like 2am Tuesday) and didn't get discharged until Thursday afternoon. I was sooo ready to go home- I could not sleep at the hospital AT ALL. I will be pushing for an earlier discharge with baby #2 if I'm feeling ready. 

[Pecansforeveryone]

I am not a mom myself, nor have I ever been pregnant. This is just me being curious, not looking to start a fight. Are there ever times when it is appropriate to mommy-shame or something like that? I mean what if the behavior endangers the child. I am not saying mommy shaming is a good thing. I think a lot of it is unjustified. I am just wondering what we call the snark on certain aspects of calling out fundie moms like Zsussana Anderson and Jill Rodrigues if not mommy shaming. Thanks. 

[OyToTheVey]

2 hours ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

I am not a mom myself, nor have I ever been pregnant. This is just me being curious, not looking to start a fight. Are there ever times when it is appropriate to mommy-shame or something like that? I mean what if the behavior endangers the child. I am not saying mommy shaming is a good thing. I think a lot of it is unjustified. I am just wondering what we call the snark on certain aspects of calling out fundie moms like Zsussana Anderson and Jill Rodrigues if not mommy shaming. Thanks. 

Not mommy shaming, I'm not a mom either, but I have on occasion with friends mentioned how I'm going to wash my hands before I eat as a passive aggressive way of making them aware that they should have their kids wash their hands too. Sometimes I've flat out said it tbh. There's no reason why a 5 year old should eat sushi with their hands and leave the restaurant without washing them. Sorry not sorry. That's just basic hygiene. 

 

[FluffySnowball]

3 hours ago, JesSky03 said:

I was induced at 6am Monday (didn't give birth until like 2am Tuesday) and didn't get discharged until Thursday afternoon. I was sooo ready to go home- I could not sleep at the hospital AT ALL. I will be pushing for an earlier discharge with baby #2 if I'm feeling ready. 

Stupid question maybe, but as I’ve never stayed in the hospital, I have to ask: Can’t you just leave when you feel ready? Why do you need to “push” anyone to let you go and who are you referring to? Doctors and nurses can’t force you to stay (I hope). 

2 hours ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

I am not a mom myself, nor have I ever been pregnant. This is just me being curious, not looking to start a fight. Are there ever times when it is appropriate to mommy-shame or something like that? I mean what if the behavior endangers the child. I am not saying mommy shaming is a good thing. I think a lot of it is unjustified. I am just wondering what we call the snark on certain aspects of calling out fundie moms like Zsussana Anderson and Jill Rodrigues if not mommy shaming. Thanks. 

I’m not a mother myself but I’ll still try to find an answer: I’d say that generally, shaming someone isn't acceptable because it doesn’t serve a purpose other than humiliation. There are instances/situations when criticizing parents is acceptable or even warranted, for instance when they mistreat their kids. Thus, I think we are justified to talk about the Duggars and their emotional and physical abuse, ZZ and PP, the Pearls and so on. We don’t mummy shame Michelle Duggar or ZZ Anderson though. Firstly, we don’t dislike them simply because they make a few decisions we don’t agree with, but because they harm their children. And secondly, we don’t just talk badly about them, we discuss what the roots of the problems might be and how one could bring about improvements. 

[Born Skeptic]

7 minutes ago, FluffySnowball said:

Stupid question maybe, but as I’ve never stayed in the hospital, I have to ask: Can’t you just leave when you feel ready? Why do you need to “push” anyone to let you go and who are you referring to? Doctors and nurses can’t force you to stay (I hope). 

They can't force you to stay, but generally you wait until the doctor in charge of your care discharges you.  If you chose to leave, you would be leaving "against medical advice."  This could have health consequences if you were not medically ready to leave.  It could also have cost considerations if your insurance company refuses to pay part or all of the hospital bill - agreeing with you that the hospitalization was unnecessary.  It is generally best to stay until discharge.

 

[JesSky03]

17 minutes ago, Born Skeptic said:

They can't force you to stay, but generally you wait until the doctor in charge of your care discharges you.  If you chose to leave, you would be leaving "against medical advice."  This could have health consequences if you were not medically ready to leave.  It could also have cost considerations if your insurance company refuses to pay part or all of the hospital bill - agreeing with you that the hospitalization was unnecessary.  It is generally best to stay until discharge.

 

Also being first time parents the discharge took a bit longer because they wanted to go over first time parent instructions, do a car seat check, etc. I had asked about being discharged at 6 or 7 am but between all the education they wanted to do and discharge paperwork it wasn't until afternoon that we finally were able to get out of there. Its probably a little slower with OB too because the docs are also tending to clinic patients and other births at the same time, so your kind of at the mercy of your doctor's schedule. 

[freshlemonade]

I would have stayed longer at the hospital after my c-sections if they'd let me.  I loved having the nice postpartum nurses helping me out, plenty of help with the baby if I had questions, lactation consultants and hospital grade pumps, adjustable beds, etc.  I love my husband dearly, but I liked having the pros help take care of me.  And my hospital had crushed ice like Sonic.....enough said ?

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

Oh sweet baby Rufus!  What the fuck is this monstrosity? 

 

 

[Xan]

8 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Oh sweet baby Rufus!  What the fuck is this monstrosity? 

 

 

That's hideous.  Although, I think the worst one is the mom and baby decked out in purple satin ruffles.  (It's 9 rows down on the Ruffles&Buttons site but I didn't want to re-post without blurring the faces and that's beyond my skill set.)

[NakedKnees]

Ruffles & Buttons really triggers that mommy shame instinct in me... just, why. Why spend money and energy on that? But I know there are many good answers to that and I need to overcome that instinct to keep my mouth shut.

If you see "red flags" of explicit neglect/abuse, or even have a really bad gut feeling, that totally transcends the "mommy shame" conversation.  Do research and think hard about appropriate steps, but there's definitely a line where we shouldn't stress TOO much about avoiding shaming. Basically, when safety is clearly an issue.

I'm a long-distance step parents so big grain of salt with my opinion, but a mommy shaming thing that drives me crazy is parents' social lives. I'm in my late twenties and it's becoming clear to me that my foreseeable social future involves a huge spectrum, of parents, to childfree, to people in situations like my own. It drives me crazy to see parents believing that parents need to have or not have xyz social lives in order to be good parents. I cant think of a thing that's LESS one size fits all.

Edited October 14, 2019 by NakedKnees
Decided not to call out my friend... I dont think he reads FJ, but we do talk Duggars sometimes lol

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

33 minutes ago, Xan said:

That's hideous.  Although, I think the worst one is the mom and baby decked out in purple satin ruffles.  (It's 9 rows down on the Ruffles&Buttons site but I didn't want to re-post without blurring the faces and that's beyond my skill set.)

Is it just me or dose that mom look like a black haired Taylor Swift? She'd be really pretty if it weren't for that nightmare of satin ruffles. I'm pretty sure I would have died for that back in 1978, when I was 7, 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

5 hours ago, OyToTheVey said:

Not mommy shaming, I'm not a mom either, but I have on occasion with friends mentioned how I'm going to wash my hands before I eat as a passive aggressive way of making them aware that they should have their kids wash their hands too. Sometimes I've flat out said it tbh. There's no reason why a 5 year old should eat sushi with their hands and leave the restaurant without washing them. Sorry not sorry. That's just basic hygiene. 

This is probably not going to endear you to your parent friends.

However, If it so important to you that someone else's kids wash their hands, then you should kindly offer to take the kids with you to the bathroom while you wash yours.  The parents will probably take you up on that offer.

[coffeebean7]

Wow, the rufflesnbuttons IG provides so much entertainment ? I can’t look away

[LacyMay]

Not a parent but I tend to define mommy shaming as criticizing a parenting choice that you disagree with but otherwise puts the parent or child at no great risk. Basically shaming someone for what is your own personal opinion. 

IE criticizing a mom for choosing to work outside the home. You might not agree with it but it's her choice and it's not harming anyone. 

VS telling a mom that her carseat isn't properly installed. You're not imposing your opinion your pointing out a fact that could put her child at risk. 

Oftentimes the snark I see on here tends to be around parenting choices that could have a negative impact on the children OR contribute to harmful belief systems and it's done as more of a commentary on how their crappy beliefs contribute to questionable parenting choices. 

[JesSky03]

18 hours ago, OyToTheVey said:

Not mommy shaming, I'm not a mom either, but I have on occasion with friends mentioned how I'm going to wash my hands before I eat as a passive aggressive way of making them aware that they should have their kids wash their hands too. Sometimes I've flat out said it tbh. There's no reason why a 5 year old should eat sushi with their hands and leave the restaurant without washing them. Sorry not sorry. That's just basic hygiene. 

 

I doubt we could be friends . I've shamelessly let my kid eat off a restaurant table sans plate and I rarely think to wash his hands before a meal and usually a wipe down afterwards is good enough. Thankfully I've found more people like me than not but usually those who are critical don't have any kids or their kids are grown and they've forgotten what the younger years can be like. We just met with a doula at a cafe they other day to see if wanted to hire her and had to bring our almost 2 year old along. He dropped one of his snacks on the floor so I picked it up and handed it right back to him and the doula mentioned how glad she was to see me do that because she does that too! My son has had like a total of 2 colds in his life so I must be doing something right lol. 

[OyToTheVey]

58 minutes ago, JesSky03 said:

I doubt we could be friends . I've shamelessly let my kid eat off a restaurant table sans plate and I rarely think to wash his hands before a meal and usually a wipe down afterwards is good enough. Thankfully I've found more people like me than not but usually those who are critical don't have any kids or their kids are grown and they've forgotten what the younger years can be like. We just met with a doula at a cafe they other day to see if wanted to hire her and had to bring our almost 2 year old along. He dropped one of his snacks on the floor so I picked it up and handed it right back to him and the doula mentioned how glad she was to see me do that because she does that too! My son has had like a total of 2 colds in his life so I must be doing something right lol. 

At a cafe? Never! Just the thought of it makes me itchy. But I did grow up with a germaphobe mother who wouldn't let me wear street socks on my bed even tho I wore them in shoes. Product of my own environment lol

[JesSky03]

15 minutes ago, OyToTheVey said:

At a cafe? Never! Just the thought of it makes me itchy. But I did grow up with a germaphobe mother who wouldn't let me wear street socks on my bed even tho I wore them in shoes. Product of my own environment lol

It is interesting how environment plays a role on this kind of thing! What I find interesting about my own childhood is how my sister and I grew up with the same parents but turned out so differently. My mom thinks its gross to eat something that fell on the floor but my dad not so much. However both of my parents were always very anal about keeping the house clean and it was common for us to  spend weekends cleaning and organizing. They were generally okay with messy and dirty play when we were kids though as long as we cleaned up and bathed afterwards. My sister grew up to be a bit of a germaphobe- she is constantly washing her hands, ALWAYS has hand sanitizer, and she would probably scold me for giving my kid food off the floor. But her house is a disaster- like seriously a disgusting mess. Then there's me- germs don't scare me in the slightest (I don't even own a single bottle of hand sanitizer) and I sometimes need reminders that maybe now would be a good time to wash my hands (like after visiting a petting zoo or something) but my house HAS to be clean or I start to feel almost claustrophobic by the mess and clutter.

[BullyJBG]

1 hour ago, JesSky03 said:

I doubt we could be friends . I've shamelessly let my kid eat off a restaurant table sans plate and I rarely think to wash his hands before a meal and usually a wipe down afterwards is good enough. Thankfully I've found more people like me than not but usually those who are critical don't have any kids or their kids are grown and they've forgotten what the younger years can be like.

Well, this is strangely comforting. Me not being a parent, I would hesitate to say ANYTHING that could potentially be interpreted as shaming(well actually anything that could invite comments like "easy for you to say" or "what do you know; you don't have kids"), and there was one time when that was REALLY hard. We were living in an apartment at the time, where there was a pool. We had people over; went swimming, back to our place for snacks and visiting, then it's time to go home. 5-year-old is not happy about that and starts to cry. I see no harm in that, but child is given 5 seconds to stop crying or get a spanking. I've heard it said that "when you're at someone else's house you follow their rules", but spanking for crying, that just makes my blood boil! It's not like the kid didn't have a good reason to cry; our place was welcoming enough they didn't want to leave! But, if I say anything, that's could just be seen as undermining.

  Anyway, after they left, now-late-hubby and I didn't say anything about it, but I think it just reinforced, this is what makes us MORE hesitant to have kids. And it was pre-2004(I am Canadian), and the said child is now an adult, and one could say they "turned out ok". And, in fact, doesn't even remember said incident.

  Otherwise, most parenting decisions I see and hesitate about, I just wait to see what the results would be. Of course the closer you are to them the harder it is.(especially if they are family) I'm sure there are a lot of parenting decisions Amy will never share publicly. We may never know if she cloth-diapers, breast-feeds or not, how she'll potty-train, how she'll discipline, and so on. I'd love to tell her to move to Canada where spanking laws are unique(though there ARE still factors that I think should be in, but there's time) but I'm in one of the provinces that had a big fall snowstorm, so that could turn anyone off, right?

[Screamapillar]

45 minutes ago, BullyJBG said:

I'm sure there are a lot of parenting decisions Amy will never share publicly.

I don't have quite as much faith in Amy that she won't share as much as possible.

[JesSky03]

@BullyJBG some topics are hard not to "shame" about, and spanking is definitely one. I'm very against it personally as I was spanked as a child and it had a negative impact on my life, but unfortunately in the states it is legal so unless the parents are obviously abusing the child I generally keep my mouth shut about it. I would likely distance myself from them if I can though as it would make me very uncomfortable, especially if they had no problem threatening or carrying out a spanking publicly. But  you are right that it is difficult with family. I know my SIL spanks her kids but I have never witnessed her do it. She did bring it up one time at family dinner because she had spanked one of her kids at school and another parent told the principal about it because it made them uncomfortable and it led to an awkward discussion about spanking and the table was pretty divided over whether or not it was okay. 

I currently have a hard time keeping my mouth shut about carseat and sleep safety on social media posts. I recently saw a picture of a very young baby sleeping in a rock in play (which has been recalled) with a loose blanket tucked up their chest. The caption indicated the baby had slept like that all night. I'm not close to the person who posted the picture at all, and she was just babysitting, but I hemmed and hawed over messaging her about safe sleep for quite a while before deciding not to. Still not sure if that was the right decision or not. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

Germaphobs are a pet peeve of mine.  People NOT ALL GERMS ARE BAD, we need germs to build immune systems. It is because of our obsession with being "germ free" that we have all these antibiotic resistant infections now. So called super bugs, that take massive amounts of antibiotics and all but kill a patients immunity to anything, we are cleaning ourselves to death. 

Let your kids play in the dirt, or even eat dirt, (but not too much) wash their hands after playing at the play ground, but don't wash the playground and your child before your child can get near it.  Common sense, if your hands are dirty wash them, if you've just gone to the bathroom wash your hands. If your kids hands are dirty wash them, if someone elses kids hands are dirty, mind your own business. 

[Sullie06]

Oh Ruffles and Buttons, you are ridiculous. I'm assuming a lot of these are "going home outfits" but yet, you couldn't get them safely in a car seat. 

[dawbs]

The shame bs is generally bs. (I'll cede spanking kinda as an exception) 

If you have enough info to shame, you have enough info to have a conversation - and back and forth conversations are vastly different from shaming.

(Says the person whose kid never washes hands in a public bathroom. 

But she has ASD and this is a "thing" and we have work-around. But strangers and acquaintances dont know about the diagnosis or work- around and its none of their business anyways.

But if they're close enough to politely raise the concern I'll politely answer [without telling the diagnosis, still nunya business] that we have a work-around.)

Judginess, even in passiveaggressve types, is bad form

most of the time the people who shame don't have enough info and should be presuming good intent like non-asshoes.

(Because I see looks and man I'm glad I am an old mean middle age confidant mom. Because if I'd have been 20, the shaming would have withered me and I probably wouldn't be doing right by my kid, trying to keep up with expectations instead of trying to find her own drumbeat. )

 

[Iamtheway]

7 hours ago, OyToTheVey said:

At a cafe? Never! Just the thought of it makes me itchy. But I did grow up with a germaphobe mother who wouldn't let me wear street socks on my bed even tho I wore them in shoes. Product of my own environment lol

I don’t really want to start the shoes inside debate again, but she let you wear shoes in bed? I’ll happily eat food I dropped on the floor in my house. But that’s because I know no one walked on that floor with shoes on. I wouldn’t eat something I dropped at a café or outside though. Because poop. 

[Glasgowghirl]

I have been tempted to mum shame some of the customer's I've had working in fast food, for Celtic FC, KFC and Taco Bell. One time I witnessed a woman pour some of the pepsi she got with her bargain bucket in her child's bottle at KFC.