Seewalds 23: Visiting Waco Again

[JermajestyDuggar]

My oldest thrives in school. He's a social butterfly and I wouldn't be able to provide him with enough socializing if I homeschooled. And before anyone jumps down my throat about not all homeschooled kids aren't socialized I am say I can't do it. Others can. I also don't have the patience. I could homeschool my youngest but I don't want to.

Luckily we live in a top rated school district. 

[Pukingpearl]

I just want to say that as someone who does have an advanced degree and who taught at a public high school, I kind of eye roll a little bit when people profess they're capable of teaching students at the same level as my former colleagues. I am not actually anti homeschooling, but I think you have to know what's you don't know, and kids do need someone with a lot of knowlege  teach them some stuff.

[TeamDefraudinSquad]

My mom is an educational supervisor (ES) for homeschooled children, and I worked as an English tutor for her school for a while when I was 17. Lots of the fundie parents I encountered wanted to shelter their kids from the big bad world at any cost, their kids' education be damned. I was barely out of high school at the time, and many of the fundie parents thought that my job as their kids' English tutor was to assume full responsibility for teaching their kids grammar/writing/phonics for the entire school year!  People like that should just send their kids to public school and be done with it. If you're going to delegate teaching to someone else regardless, why not put your kids in the hands of a professional teacher, even if it is at a public school?   

[Rachel333]

7 minutes ago, Pukingpearl said:

I just want to say that as someone who does have an advanced degree and who taught at a public high school, I kind of eye roll a little bit when people profess they're capable of teaching students at the same level as my former colleagues. I am not actually anti homeschooling, but I think you have to know what's you don't know, and kids do need someone with a lot of knowlege  teach them some stuff.

I've been both homeschooled and in public school and I really don't think most homeschoolers get the same kind of high school education that you can get in public schools with teachers who are knowledgeable in their subjects. It was very frustrating to me to see my homeschooled peers claiming they were doing all this advanced work while really it didn't compare to advanced classes in a public high school.

Most of the homeschoolers I've known have really exaggerated the quality of education that they/their children are getting. I do think it tends to be better though in states where there is some actual oversight for homeschoolers.

[BabyBottlePop]

Mr. Baby Bottle Pop was homeschooled until high school. He thinks it was in part so his mom had an excuse to stay home. She wasn't really involved in the teaching like she should have been, he says (she liked to talk on the phone all day) and he says the only reason they did great in school is because he and his brother really had a hunger for learning and were able to push themselves. Now his mom acts like it was something she did that made them out successful in school. 

[nickelodeon]

@Rachel333

Oh lord, trauma-flashbacks to Saxon Math swearing that their curriculum taught kids to do college math while in the third grade or whatever. Growing up being told that you're sooo much smarter and better educated than all your private-school friends, only to discover later that you're actually just average, is a nasty shock.

[Rachel333]

2 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

@Rachel333

Oh lord, trauma-flashbacks to Saxon Math swearing that their curriculum taught kids to do college math while in the third grade or whatever. Growing up being told that you're sooo much smarter and better educated than all your private-school friends, only to discover later that you're actually just average, is a nasty shock.

Oh I can imagine. The homeschoolers I've known are so bad about claiming that their kids are so much smarter than kids who go to school. Even when they're not straight up lying, they compare the very best of homeschooling to the worst of public schooling. It's so frustrating.

[FleeJanaFree]

I had a friend who joined us in tenth grade after being homeschooled. I was really interested in how she was homeschooled, and her answers shocked me. She said she slept past noon *everyday* and did about an hour, hour and a half  of 'homework' a day. If she didn't feel like doing it, she could look up the answers from a sort of teachers workbook her mom had. Her mom didn't really supervise her.

 

she was a nice girl, but she definitely floundered a bit academically. Subjects like English weren't too bad for her, but she couldn't keep up with chemistry or trig, etc. Like most things in life, I suppose homeschooling is one of those things that you get out what you put in. Having a parent that truly knows the material and can (and will, her mom certainly didn't) adequately explain it is important. I reckon most homeschooled kids in elementary school are getting an adequate education, but middle school and high school levels get dicier.

[Rachel333]

1 minute ago, FleeJanaFree said:

I had a friend who joined us in tenth grade after being homeschooled. I was really interested in how she was homeschooled, and her answers shocked me. She said she slept past noon *everyday* and did about an hour, hour and a half  of 'homework' a day. If she didn't feel like doing it, she could look up the answers from a sort of teachers workbook her mom had. Her mom didn't really supervise her.

That sounds so typical of homeschoolers I've known. I was like that myself in 8th-9th grade. I think my parents educated me well when I was younger, but they stopped supervising me in later grades. My youngest siblings were babies then and, understandably, got most of my parents' attention.

I started public school in 10th grade too. I actually did very well in school (I graduated with the highest gpa in my class of 600) and I had a lot of teachers make comments about what a good job my parents did homeschooling me, but they didn't know how much I had to teach myself.

My youngest siblings are now in high school and still being homeschooled, but we now live in a state that requires homeschoolers to keep a portfolio documenting what they do, and that has made a big difference. It also helps that my mom can devote all her attention to them.

[SapphireSlytherin]

I never once considered homeschooling GryffindorDisappointment. I'd have lost my fucking mind.

Why? Because I never wanted to be a teacher, even though I come from a long line of educators. To me, that would be the worst job in the world. I "teach" the way my granddaddy did (he "taught" his employees how to do things with metal):

Granddaddy:  Put that thingamabob on the doohickey.

Employee: I don't understand.

Granddaddy:  Put that THINGAMABOB on the DOOHICKEY.

Employee:  I don't understand.

Granddaddy:  PUT THAT THINGAMABOB ON THE DOOHICKEY!!!

Employee:  I don't understand.

Granddaddy:  PUT THAT FUCKING THINGAMABOB ON THE GODDAM FUCKING DOOHICKEY!!!

Employee:  I don't understand.

Granddaddy:  GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE. YOU'RE FIRED.

[HarryPotterFan]

@SapphireSlytherin  My dad sometimes communicates that way as well. I used to be able to understand him a lot better. I remember having a conversation like that and confusing a friend because she had no idea how we understood each other.

Also I absolutely love that you call your kid Gryffindor Disappointment. It makes me smile every time.

[SapphireSlytherin]

@HarryPotterFan - We just don't know how she's a Gryffindor. I'm Slytherin, my hubby (her stepdad) is a Slytherin. Her boyfriend/hubby-to-be is a Slytherin. Her dad must be a Squib.

 

[Marly]

I will start by saying that homeschooling as it happens in the US is illegal in the Netherlands, and I have therefore no personal experience with reasons for homeschooling or homeschooling systems. 
Now to my question.
For those who were homeschooled for the elementery school period and transitioned to public schooling for the remainer of their education, what was the reasoning behind receiving homeschooling for the elementery part as opposed to receiving public education from the start? I'm curious why one would start with homeschooling, only to transition to public schooling later. As mentioned in the posts before, I can imagine that homeschool students can have somewhat of a disadvantage; not only regarding the level of subject matters, but also regarding the social environment of the school. If you're not used to such a learning environment, that can be a serious disadvantage with regards to how well you do in school (both socially and for your grades).
 

[Chewing Gum]

@Marly I think once the kids hit highschool age, they run out of teaching abilities to keep up with all the subjects on an acceptable academic level. 

Btw homescholing is allowed in The Netherlands, it's just a slightly different proces to start: point out you don't have a school nearby that follows your lifestyle and your kid is excused. However, you can't start school and then withdraw, and it has to be finalized before the 5th birthday. Some families actually do better than the school system  and their levels are usually higher than public schools. 

[ViolaSebastian]

There's also something to be said for someone who isn't emotionally involved with you teaching you things. I love my mother, but if she tried to teach me calculus at age sixteen, one of us would not be alive today. 

[HarryPotterFan]

1 hour ago, ViolaSebastian said:

There's also something to be said for someone who isn't emotionally involved with you teaching you things. I love my mother, but if she tried to teach me calculus at age sixteen, one of us would not be alive today. 

Haha I can relate. I always struggled in math and it wasn't a good fit when my mom (who majored in math in college) tried to tutor me. We have very different learning styles. She can hear a long, complex string of numbers once and remember it. I need things written down.

[OyToTheVey]

@ViolaSebastian and @HarryPotterFan haha my mom and me are the same way. She's very advanced in math and calculus, she's a doctor, but every time she tried to teach me anything even the most simple division, it wouldn't end well. I still don't know how I am the way I am. My parents are so good at math. I'm good at psychology and history lol I have no STEM abilities at all.

[Carm_88]

My Dad is very good at math, I have always been more inclined toward the artsy subjects. We can discuss books til the cows come home. However, if he tried to teach me math, there would be been fight after fight. 

[Marly]

2 hours ago, Chewing Gum said:

@Marly I think once the kids hit highschool age, they run out of teaching abilities to keep up with all the subjects on an acceptable academic level. 

Btw homescholing is allowed in The Netherlands, it's just a slightly different proces to start: point out you don't have a school nearby that follows your lifestyle and your kid is excused. However, you can't start school and then withdraw, and it has to be finalized before the 5th birthday. Some families actually do better than the school system  and their levels are usually higher than public schools. 

I thought you did have to have a teacher's diploma to be able to do that, and your 'school plan' needs to be approved by the government. Otherwise, you are purposefully witholding your child from education and that's considered a crime. Also, if there is no school of your 'lifestyle' nearby, you are first obligated to check out available 'out of school' teaching options, such as the World School program, or online programs from International Schools. And since all school programs have to meet a certain standard, and have to teach about evolution, for instance, it is very difficult to make a case regarding the World School not meeting your lifestyle. Those classes are online, so your kid doesn't need to mingle with the evil outside world, and your kid is only being taught those things that are obligatory anyway. 
My mom was an elementery school teacher, and one of her students had a sibling with a lot of learning disabilities and emotional attachment problems. He didn't thrive well in normal pulic schools, nor in the special needs schools, and as a consequence was home a lot, without receiving any education. They had even moved a couple of times to find a school that would be a good match for the kid, but with no success. Since the institutions that were supposed to help find a solution weren't very helpful, the mom, a teacher herself, then proceeded to teach the child at home, thinking that if the child was home anyway because no school could accomodate him she might as well teach him herself. Although the child was doing much better, she was in the end fined for keeping her child away from school, even though she had done everything possible to find a school for him.
I have to add that this took place somewhere at the end of the 90's, and it is very much possible that the situation has changed over the past 20 years.  I had not thought about that when I wrote this example down

[HarryPotterFan]

27 minutes ago, OyToTheVey said:

@ViolaSebastian and @HarryPotterFan haha my mom and me are the same way. She's very advanced in math and calculus, she's a doctor, but every time she tried to teach me anything even the most simple division, it wouldn't end well. I still don't know how I am the way I am. My parents are so good at math. I'm good at psychology and history lol I have no STEM abilities at all.

Haha are we the same person? Both my parents are doctors and I suck at math and hard sciences (chemistry, physics, bio) and majored in psychology.

[mpheels]

My mom is a career educator - 20 years in the classroom, followed by 20 years in school and district administration. She taught middle school, high school, and university level classes. She worked as an administrator for every grade level from kindergarten through graduate school. She has an M.A. in education and an Ed.D. She is a very, very good teacher when it comes to US history, civics, and literature. She would have been terrible at home schooling me. I'm very much a STEM oriented person - my mom took the GRE when I was in 9th grade, and I had to tutor her for the math section. No way we could have replicated the STEM education I got from my public high school. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

On 6/17/2017 at 11:46 AM, Flossie said:

I think you mean Jill and Derick.  And I'm hoping that they take a break after this next child.  I have a feeling that they're having problems and adding yet another baby won't help things.

No I meant, I think JinJer will only have 2 or 3 kids, and that depending on how Samuel's birth goes will determine, more for me, how many I think J&D will have.  

[OyToTheVey]

44 minutes ago, HarryPotterFan said:

Haha are we the same person? Both my parents are doctors and I suck at math and hard sciences (chemistry, physics, bio) and majored in psychology.

Did I mention the only science I never failed was chemistry? I don't even know how I never failed it. The first time I took bio I failed. Hello summer school. Failed physics twice! I got a 3.7 GPA in my psychology bachelors and a 3.9 in childhood education masters. I'm not including all the math and science classes in my gpa cuz then it would be waaaaaaaaaaay smaller lol

[Four is Enough]

Well, @FlamingFundie, I really don't want to argue with you, but I am going to bring up a point you may not have considered.

I'm sure you know that homeschooling is hard work. Planning and executing appropriate lesson plans is only going to get more challenging for you. I hope you have great support and guidance.

 

Have you ever considered that some of us do not want to , or do not have the time and resources, to take on a task of that size? I love, love, love my Four. One would have been good in any school system, and indeed is in graduate school now, working very hard. He competes against himself and two smarty pants roommates.

Two would have had an IEP had he gone to public school. He had an undiagnosed learning disability, and he had ADHD, very severe. Methods that worked for One, such as, "do your homework every day, get a beanie baby on Friday" did NOT work with Two. He found out where the beanie babies were, and chose one on Monday. Not to mention that he ARGUED with everything. If I showed him with blocks that 1 plus 1 was 2, he'd argue with me. No learning was going to happen between him and me, he wasn't going to allow it. His school was the best possible fit for him.

Three and Four had issues of their own. Not to mention that I was working... and I wasn't going to try to teach them anything. Homework alone was hours of agony for all of us. I'm not interested in teaching children, and I make no apologies for that. It's not my strength, it's not my passion, and I"m just not doing it.

 

So while public schools might not be ideal, they might be the best choice for many of us. Work with the school and the parents' association to improve things at the school? I'm all over that.

[nausicaa]

4 hours ago, Marly said:

For those who were homeschooled for the elementery school period and transitioned to public schooling for the remainer of their education, what was the reasoning behind receiving homeschooling for the elementery part as opposed to receiving public education from the start? I'm curious why one would start with homeschooling, only to transition to public schooling later. 
 

When I've encountered it, it was because the family wanted to give their children a few years before exposing them to social pressures (or "worldly influences" if they were conservative Christians). And sometimes the kids were  hyper/immature for their age and the parents knew they might be a bit behind in a classroom until they grew up a bit.

There was a family of eleven in my neighborhood growing up who homeschooled their kids until age 14 and then let them choose if they wanted to go to public high school. Everyone but the oldest chose public school (they were really social and into athletics, and I think this affected their decisions). As the parents got older they got a bit more lax, and I think the kids began to start public school at age 11 or 12.