Joe and Kendra: Holding Hands and Saying I Love You

[VelociRapture]

Just to intercept any potential questions:

No. Jim Bob was never shown blatantly harming a child on camera. @Lurkyis referring to the episode where, I believe, he and Michelle told the kids that Michelle was pregnant with Jubilee. From what I remember, the scene cuts to still photos and sound. Josiah looks upset and appears to leave the frame. Jim Bob appears to bring him back  grabbing his arm. Some children (I believe Jana and possibly Jill) look upset. Confused voices shouting.

Thats about it. Josiah might have been rubbing his arm afterwards, but there's no iron-clad proof he was purposely physically harmed by his dad or even just harmed. The arm rubbing could have been a comfort thing more than anything. 

So, the scene is confusing enough to allow a good deal of speculation... but nothing has ever been confirmed. That said, given what we know about the Duggars, it's definitely well within the realm of possibility that Jim Bob did hurt Josiah while pulling him back into the shot. It's also completely possible he did so on purpose. 

My big question is why the he'll didn't TLC film it again or film closeup reactions from the kids and then use a larger group shot of everyone looking happy once they calmed down?

(Lurky, I actually wouldn't be surprised at all if Siah were purposely harmed - either at that time or later on. I just don't want this to be one of those things that bounces around and becomes site "fact" when all we really have is speculative evidence. It's happened before, like the claim the Duggars not pay taxes because they claim their house is a Church when there's no proof of that having ever happened.)

[Lurky]

@VelociRapture I completely get why you're warding off speculation, but I didn't say this incident was "on camera", I said "in front of the cameras", which it was.  We know that that whole incident was in front of the camera crew was because they showed what we saw on the TV programme, and it was then available on videos and screenshots, as you outlined, even if we know there's a break in the action, so can't definitively say what happened out of our (but not the camera crew's) sight.

I don't think I'm out of line say that he was hurt, given that he was grabbed by his arm and then seen rubbing his arm afterwards in the place he was grabbed, in a way that typically connotes being hurt.    Maybe you're reading my "hurt" as "injured" - to me, "hurt" is a lower level - it hurts when I stub my toe, or if I crick my neck, or walk into the corner of the table (which I do 100 times a day, you'd think I'd learn) and that's why I used the words I did.  I completely get that words mean different things in different places, so if it means something more where you are, I get that.

I'm 100% trying to say this in a friendly tone, and not start a fight - I'm trying to explain why I used the words I used.

ETA And I do think that the response JB showed to Josiah, even if he didn't "hurt" him, but grabbed him in a way that wasn't painful and chastised him for showing emotion, is the type of thing that would contribute to Josiah changing.  If he got in trouble for showing the "wrong" emotion, he'd do his best to hide emotions, and only show the accepted sid, keep a joyful countenance etc etc.  We know the Duggars are strongly associated with blanket training and the Pearl methods, and that's obviously horrible for them when they're kids, but having their emotions so rigorously policed also has an impact on children's development.

[VelociRapture]

@LurkyI didn't say you were out of line or anything. I actually made sure to point out that what you said was well within the realm of possibility based off what we know.

Yes, I took "hurt" to mean injured or purposely harmed. Totally possible his dad just grabbed a bit too hard accidentally or pulled a bit too much and it just felt a little uncomfortable. 

And thanks for clarifying about the cameras. I just wanted it to be clear to anyone reading that no concrete evidence was captured on film and then shown on air. We're both in full agreement there.

We also seem to be in agreement on everything else you stated as well.  

[Mela99]

New People article up.

Quote

It was nearly two hours into the reception, when her 22-year-old asked Kendra to be his future wife in front of their close friends and family — with Joy-Anna’s blessing, of course.

“I’m so happy and so shocked. There’s so many words I want to say, but just shocked. I had absolutely no idea,” Kendra revealed. “He had the ring in his pocket so when I went to go help myself and grab mints out of his pocket, he grabbed at his pocket and I pulled my hand away. But then I quickly forgot about it.”

The pair, who met through their church, are eager to start wedding planning and hoping for a fall wedding.

“We are not 100 percent sure as far as the exact date of the wedding, but we like fall at some point,” said Joseph.

“There were lots of things I was definitely taking tips on at Joy-Anna’s wedding that I thought we might do,” Kendra added.

My god - she reached into his pocket for mints!? 

[SapphireSlytherin]

1 minute ago, Mela99 said:

she reached into his pocket for mints!? 

Yet another "don't" to add to future Duggar courtship rules.

[HereticHick]

On 6/2/2017 at 4:02 PM, Carm_88 said:

Kenda is a gem according to Jessa. 

She may be a gem, but she's no beautiful majestic pearl

[Four is Enough]

4 hours ago, Mela99 said:

 “He had the ring in his pocket so when I went to go help myself and grab mints out of his pocket, he grabbed at his pocket and I pulled my hand away. But then I quickly forgot about it.”

Cheeky little devil. She reached into the vicinity of his pocket?? Or is "mints" what they're calling them these days? bwahahaha!

[nst]

4 hours ago, Mela99 said:

“We are not 100 percent sure as far as the exact date of the wedding, but we like fall at some point,” said Joseph.

So a early September wedding - make sense - Jill will still be here.

[Carm_88]

11 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

My god - she reached into his pocket for mints!? 

Good thing they're engaged, if not there would be a scandal!  

[HereticHick]

Is that a mint in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?

[nst]

perhaps they are planning to be more cheeky like that.  so expect hands in pockets between these two in courtship moments

 

[The Wanderer]

34 minutes ago, nst said:

perhaps they are planning to be more cheeky like that.  so expect hands in pockets between these two in courtship moments

 

Hands in pockets seems like it would be better than the famous Duggar hand sex! Or at least, more private

[Mela99]

I really wonder what Joe's reasoning behind choosing the wedding for a proposal was. Because everyone was there? They were dressed? Cameras available? I'm so curious.

[SuhrEnity]

4 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

@Lurkyis referring to the episode where, I believe, he and Michelle told the kids that Michelle was pregnant with Jubilee. From what I remember, the scene cuts to still photos and sound. Josiah looks upset and appears to leave the frame. Jim Bob appears to bring him back  grabbing his arm. Some children (I believe Jana and possibly Jill) look upset. Confused voices shouting.

I swear I watched all the episodes and I missed all these crucial things!! Anyone know how I can find this episode?

Mints huh???? Is that what the teenagers are calling them these days?

I will never be able to look at a mint the same way again. Mints are an automatic NIKE for me from here on out

[SorenaJ]

Wedding guesses: 

JoKen: September 2017 
JD: June 2018 
Jana: February 2019 
Josiah: August 2019 
Jed+Jer: May 2020

[Bad Wolf]

We know that the Duggars used a rod to discipline their kids. It was in the police report. I thought the Josiah thing had been erased and couldn't be found any more.

[luxfilia]

I guess the mints and ring could have been in his jacket pocket, based on the picture of them together. That seems less scandalous than the pants pocket I was picturing (sigh). haha

[Cleopatra7]

3 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Hands in pockets seems like it would be better than the famous Duggar hand sex! Or at least, more private

Maybe a pockets can function as hand sex condoms. Or at the very least, the hand equivalent of a motel.

[Gobsmacked]

2 hours ago, Mela99 said:

I really wonder what Joe's reasoning behind choosing the wedding for a proposal was. Because everyone was there? They were dressed? Cameras available? I'm so curious.

He didn't have to go to daft lengths organising treasure hunts or singers on a bench.

This way it's special but without the hard work. Simples.

[SuhrEnity]

22 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Maybe a pockets can function as hand sex condoms. Or at the very least, the hand equivalent of a motel.

Now I'm picturing them holding hands with a pocket in between them to preserve their hand holding purity for the engagement season of life

[Mela99]

I want a ring shot. 

[eveandadam]

13 hours ago, HurricaneBells said:

Or as the one and only Pickles has deduced (and while i dont think its true, i kind of wish it was !) that it is Jana and Laura that are special friends! Man i will have to find the post where she said that... before tearing someone else apart for speculation!

I know what you are talking about; I  read that post, too. But I was talking about Laura Caldwell (Kendra's little sister) not Laura (Masiespace, the 31? year old).

And even though some Duggars may be a great base for speculation on orientation, please don't.  It's hard for us to understand that someone whose true orientation shines through so strongly might not want to follow that path. But that's what they are taught.  It's a shame but what can we do?

 

I wonder if they would be allowed to not get married if they ever come out admit to having problems with sexual orientation. If they would be allowed to take the high road of celibacy.

 

[NeverBeenKissed]

Kendra just seems so delightfully ackward. Their relationship is going to be entertaining. 

[justmy2cents]

3 minutes ago, eveandadam said:

But I was talking about Laura Caldwell (Kendra's little sister) not Laura (Masiespace, the 31? year old).

It's Lauren Caldwell, not Laura,  which may be why there was confusion.

[The Wanderer]

1 hour ago, SuhrEnity said:

Now I'm picturing them holding hands with a pocket in between them to preserve their hand holding purity for the engagement season of life

Kid Farm should make a new episode to parody this!