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Family Living on Purpose (FLOP) : Erika Shupe Pt 11


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On ‎14‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 9:43 AM, Foudeb said:

That's the best news on FJ in, like, ever.

I hope Karen doesn't go too crazy with all this new freedom (it could make things more difficult for Melanie if she does).

And I hope she has fun.

Where is Karen's fb? I've only seen Erika's blog

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24 minutes ago, seraaa said:

Where is Karen's fb? I've only seen Erika's blog

If yougo on facebook and search for Karen Shupe it comes up. 

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6 minutes ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

If yougo on facebook and search for Karen Shupe it comes up. 

Thank you

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17 hours ago, December said:

From personal experience, I've been amazed by how many people don't realize how much a marriage license, a freaking piece of paper, can affect your life. Too many people take for granted the sort of critically important rights it confers on a couple + their family (at least in the USA). Then again, sometimes you can explain it to people and they still have zero compassion for the sort of heartbreaking bureaucratic issues a lack of equal marriage could and has caused for families. Thankfully, many people will be reasonable... 

Most people don't really think about what a legal marriage license does.  It has virtually nothing to do with sex at all.  The only sex-related implications I could find in my area is a presumption that the husband is the father of any children, and an exemption from statutory rape rules for certain married couples.  I actually think of it as analogous to forming a personal corporation, and you don't see anyone insisting that the president and vice president of a company have to be different genders.

It is legal to have sex outside of marriage, and it is legal to get married and never have sex.  As long as it is legal to have pre-marital and extra-marital sex, and no proof of sexual relations is required for marriage, I can't see how anyone could use the Bible to justify not allowing any two people to get a legal marriage.  To my knowledge, God never said anything about joint taxes or sharing health insurance, or who has power of attourny, etc.

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1 hour ago, Mirla said:

As long as it is legal to have pre-marital and extra-marital sex, and no proof of sexual relations is required for marriage, I can't see how anyone could use the Bible to justify not allowing any two people to get a legal marriage.  To my knowledge, God never said anything about joint taxes or sharing health insurance, or who has power of attourny, etc.

It's always surprising to me how Fundies see sex (and maybe child rearing, but that's a by-product of sex, to them) as the only important parts of marriage.  It's like companionship, mutual support, living in partnership, as two halves of a team, none of that matters to them, only the sex.

And then they see homosexuality as anal sex only, and completely ignore the fact that statistically, more heterosexuals are having anal sex purely as there being more of them. When asking about lesbianism, they get very confused, and find it even harder to find justifications, and just burble on about procreative sex...  and yet, if sex should only be for procreation, why don't they campaign against people who have fertility issues or women who've gone through menopause getting married?  And when you ask that, they get back to BECAUSE THE BIBLE! and get very upset if you ask them to cite verses!

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23 hours ago, Lurky said:

It's always surprising to me how Fundies see sex (and maybe child rearing, but that's a by-product of sex, to them) as the only important parts of marriage.  It's like companionship, mutual support, living in partnership, as two halves of a team, none of that matters to them, only the sex.

(Clip...)

Exactly.  And a legal marriage is all about mutual support, living in partnership, and being two halves of a team.  It's sayining, "I am working as a team with this person.  We will make our decisions together.  We want to be treated as a team in some areas of our lives." 

It's great if the person you legally marry is also the person you have sex with, because that's great for the relationship, but the government doesn't care what consenting adult(s) you're having sex with.

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I agree. Love and companionship are just as important as children. Maybe I am being maudlin, but I was "best person" in my friend's wedding yesterday and you could just SEE how much they meant to each other. Together for 9 years already and they still can't stop touching! And in the vows they promised to love and cherish every version of the other person, every day.

 

Don't tell me that's not important like fundies think. It was so beautiful that I can't hear their song any more ("In My Life", by the Beatles, btw), without SOBBING.

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Back when I was teaching an eighth grade CCD class, the priest stopped by for a chat with the kids. He asked them what the church's reason for marriage was. "Babies!" the kids all yelled. "No," Fr. Fred told them, "it's companionship."

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8 hours ago, Hane said:

Back when I was teaching an eighth grade CCD class, the priest stopped by for a chat with the kids. He asked them what the church's reason for marriage was. "Babies!" the kids all yelled. "No," Fr. Fred told them, "it's companionship."

God didn't create eve to make more humans, but to give Adam a friend and lover.

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The word that is sometimes translated as helpmeet is a word with many dimensions, one of them is similar to "comrade in arms" and my husband and I kind of like that. That we are sort of fighting side by side in the world against the bad things we experience. Something we have been forced to do sadly because unemployment, losses in our respective families and bad health. Together we have this bond and some fights to fight but we can do it.

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That's a beautiful way to think of it, @elliha! Most of the fundies we follow want wives to be basically a child-rearing housekeeper with benefits. That's so far from a comrade in arms that it's not even funny. 

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My German translations use a word that literally means 'one that is on the same track'. It implies 'the one that walks with you on the same path, sharing the experiences and fighting the difficulties' . It is used in this sense nowadays when writing about people's friends, comrades, and fellow fighters for the same cause. For me it paints the picture of two explorers cutting their way through the pathless, impenetrable jungle or walking endlessly through a stone desert.

My husband and I believe a marriage is just like that: You walk together, side-by-side or within calling distance until you reach the end. You pick each other up when one stumbles over an obstacle. Sometimes one clears the path to make it easier. You slow down or choose an alternative way so both can reach that little hilltop. Everyone carries things with them that might come in handy and are a heavy load at other times. But nothing is more valuable and from time to time you are surprised about that great stuff your companion has.

I also like the 'comrade in arms' wording: We joke that we send each other into battle. But the other one sharpens the best sword and hardens the best shield beforehand. It's one battle, one victory or one temporary defeat. Both do their best, no one is to blame and you are nothing without the work of the other. Next time it might be in reversed roles.

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She's definitely going to meet some gay people working at a food co-op in Washington state. Hopefully she becomes friends with some her age; I think that will make a big difference.

Can someone describe what her post was and what the comments were that prompted her to say she hadn't considered those points? I am curious!

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Thank you @Red Jumper- that's beautiful. It brought a tear to my eye. I agree with your view and you phrased it so beautifully. 

How on earth did someone manage to twist 'comrade in arms' and 'fellow fighter on the same track' to make it represent a second-class citizen; submissive and obedient, and why did they want to change the meaning so drastically? The very thought makes me shudder. 

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Well the Hebrew is "ezer k'negdo" - which I would say is literally a "helper opposite him" and I like the Jewish explanation that sometimes helping means opposing - see the example of God telling Abraham to listen to Sarah.

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3 hours ago, alexandracabot said:

Can someone describe what her post was and what the comments were that prompted her to say she hadn't considered those points? I am curious!

Her post was this gross image:

rainbow.jpg.87b26410c2b576ebbf14f159512b2879.jpg

I don't know what she said about not considering someone's points though. I didn't see that.

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41 minutes ago, seraaa said:

It's only now I notice that the Pride flag only has six stripes on it, not seven

I'm sure fundies would say it was fraught with meaning...on the seventh stripe God rested, or something. Heh.

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8 hours ago, seraaa said:

It's only now I notice that the Pride flag only has six stripes on it, not seven

The original design had eight, each one representing a different aspect of queer life and identity:

Spoiler

595cbefc3b7b7_prideeight.jpg.139658bbf74fd2b6191bdfad0d4d7e35.jpg

 

 

The pink stripe was removed because they couldn't find the right kind of hot pink fabric in San Francisco when organizers were sewing the first one, and the turquoise and blue stripes were merged into one instead of two, giving us the current six.

There are a dozen variations for orientations and sub-sets of the community as well, and a new one that adds brown and black stripes to emphasize inclusion of POC. {hugs my flag}

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I have high hopes for Karen. She moved out on her own at a young age, works her butt off, and seems to be friends with people very different from herself. I have a feeling that 5 or 6 years from now, she will look back on some of her beliefs with embarrassment. 

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Howdy FJ!

I'm new here.  I'm picking this as my first topic/family to respond to, although I've spent more time than I care to admit "catching up" on several different families.  I've been reading about each family one by one, like they are novels/soap operas, and I wanted to be current with as many as possible before jumping in.

anyway, I sometimes peek ahead, right?  And in my family googling, I mistakenly confused Melanie/Karen, and I thought, erroneously, that Melanie was moving out and no one else had noticed yet!!!Eleventy!1!!!11!  So I signed up, post haste, to report the news, and was in verification mode for what felt like foreverty.

In the meantime, I fact checked and realized my confusion with the two shupe girls, thus saving the embarrassment of my potential first post being totes inaccurate.

Now, I feel like my first post is no where near as exciting as I had hoped, lol.  I thought I had Breaking News!  I rushed picking my name for this!  Lol.

btw, the other name I had considered for a long ass time, was BlessedLittleSquatter, and I was none-to-pleased to learn that there was already a blog by that name.  I just kinda picked this one in a hurry, such was my excitement to break some news!  Lol.  In the intervening 24 hour waiting period, I was like, "cofveve, wtf, I should have thought of that!"  Too late now, guess I'll just have to go with Spanger.

also- hai mango fandango!  Big fan of your posts on this thread!  And hai everyone!

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Ooh I have a fan!! Hi!!

Erika was my gateway fundie. I discovered her about three years ago now, originally through GOMI. I discovered FJ and signed up about a year later. It was about the time Erika announced a pregnancy (on Mother's Day no less) before reporting a miscarriage. Then I found out that she'd scrubbed her old blog of all the most controversial posts. Now of course she seems to have stopped posting. 

I suppose you always have some place in your heart for your gateway fundie. Not in that sense, just that I feel I know quite a lot about her. Since she doesn't post anymore I've been getting into other fundies - I've had a long interest in the Maxwells and got into the Lori rabbit hole recently. I occasionally dip into the Duggars and Bateses but those threads move so fast I can barely keep up.

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I found FJ when the first Josh Duggar scandal broke, and stayed for good when the second scandal came right after it. Waited a bit longer to join, but by then, I knew I had found what I hadn't even known I was lacking, or had been looking for.

Once I moved past the Duggar board, I found the Erika Shupe hole, and then Jill Rodrigues...anyway, as I already knew who the Duggars were & what they are about (although I didn't watch their show - and still don't), I consider Erika to be my gateway. 

Jill Rod is my favorite these days, mostly because she's just so intent on broadcasting her specific brand of crazy despite anything, but I have a certain fondness for Erika that will never go away. It's true. There's a place in your heart for your first. 

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