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Duggars by the Dozen 28 - A Mild Inappropriate Lawsuit


Coconut Flan

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10 minutes ago, General Jinjur said:

You just made me snort covfefe out my nose. Thanks.

Mad props to everyone for the great legal information. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. I really hope they don't get one cent. In a perfect world Boob and Michelle would be sued for being crappy parents.

Unfortunately you can't sue your parents for being crappy parents. Joy should sue Josh though the statue of limitations isn't up on that for her. Statute of limitations pauses when your a minor. She still has some time. 

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2 hours ago, CreationMuseumSeasonPass said:

Newscasters don't even agree on how to pronounce it. I've heard Cov-pheh-fee, Cov-fee-fee, Cov-fehf.  I prefer the fee-fee pronunciation. Oh man, our President. Give me strength here, Almighty Rufus.

He was just in Europe, so I'm going with Fee Fee

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@lomo6 and @nst asked about FJ's mention in the lawsuit. You can read the complaint (that's the paperwork that begins a lawsuit) at http://static.lakana.com/nxsglobal/nwahomepage/document_dev/2017/05/19/Duggar Lawsuit_1495207426181_21719920_ver1.0.pdf (thanks to @Destiny for posting the link). FJ appears at the bottom of page 19. The gist of it is that we proved their point that the report was badly redacted because we could figure out who the victims were.

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4 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

The gist of it is that we proved their point that the report was badly redacted because we could figure out who the victims were.

I cannot wait for this to rock up in the actual court, because I'm pretty sure a good lawyer will make us all out to be rabid obsessives, so the everyday person wouldn't have been able to tell! :evil-laugh:

But I think they've made a mistake naming FJ as an example, given a. the huge "no speculation about victims of abuse" rule here (as opposed to 1000 other sites and comments sections all over the 'net) and b. the rumours that Josh was an abuser were talked about on FJ waaaaaaay before the FOI request, which I'm sure the defending lawyers can use as evidence the abuse was well known in their community, and as such, the revelations wouldn't have harmed them $15 million worth.

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On 6/1/2017 at 0:58 AM, Imagine20 said:

Does AR allow amicus briefs? 

It's in federal court so their rules of civil procedure apply -- still, those are to my knowledge only applicable at the appellate level.  

Lots of popcorn between then and now.

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On 5/31/2017 at 1:20 PM, Jess said:

Unfortunately you can't sue your parents for being crappy parents. 

If you could, the Duggar parents would be broke.

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On 5/24/2017 at 9:22 AM, nokidsmom said:

On 5/24/2017 at 8:33 AM, Exposedknees said:

I have never been able to wrap my head around the fact that Jill and Jessa were "Informed" of the abuse by their idiot parents.

Maybe by being informed, they meant that they were informed that that "crotch tickling" is actually abuse?  Not that that's really any better, because it would mean that no one ever talked to them about who couldn't touch them.

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On 5/24/2017 at 0:05 PM, OyToTheVey said:

Did these people sell Joy this early so that she can be married right before the statute of limitations is up? The timing of her marriage and the timing of the lawsuit are too coincidental to be a coincidence to me. I really hope they didn't sell that girl to the first guy that showed interest just so they can have time to file a lawsuit.

Which SOL?  And what does her getting married have to do with anything?

 

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1 hour ago, Jug Band Baby said:

Which SOL?  And what does her getting married have to do with anything?

 

I think the speculation is there might have been a SOL on one or more of the claims. Since the victims all signed the complaint, it made it official as to who was involved. In their world especially, I'm guessing some potential suitors might not want a wife who's been abused and the abuse is national news, and if Joy were engaged and almost married, that situation would never be an issue. They live in a messed up world that requires messed up logic. 

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The statute of limitations was running out on the intentional tort claims. Since Joy was a minor when this happened her time didn't start to run so she had more time to file, but Jinger, Jessa, and Jill had to file then or never.  It makes sense to bring them all at the same time though because if you waited on Joy it would delay the whole case as they would later have to be consolidated and it might lead to needing two depositions of some parties etc. Most importantly it would have annoyed the crap out the judge. 

People specilate they waited until the last minute because of Joys wedding. From experience I can say last minute filings happen all the time through no fault of the client for lots of reasons and we will never know why the timing happened the way it did.

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On 2017.06.1. at 1:55 AM, Lurky said:

the rumours that Josh was an abuser were talked about on FJ waaaaaaay before the FOI request, which I'm sure the defending lawyers can use as evidence the abuse was well known in their community, and as such, the revelations wouldn't have harmed them $15 million worth.


Also, Alice stated that Josh abused five victims and four of them were his sisters. If report came out more redacted, it still would say that Josh had five victims. It would also confirm what Alice said about Oprah's story. So we would figure out the rest. We wouldn't know which sisters were victims and everyone would most likely assume four oldest ones, but still. They would receive questions and comments and everything. 
So badly redacted report is bad, but Duggars were screwed no matter what. And they started rumors themselves by letting people in their church to know about abuse (didn't they make Josh to admit it publicly?). 

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I thought Josh had to confess to sexual sin, but didn't really announce what that sin was? Still, in small communities like that, there are no secrets.

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12 hours ago, AlwaysExcited said:


Also, Alice stated that Josh abused five victims and four of them were his sisters. If report came out more redacted, it still would say that Josh had five victims. It would also confirm what Alice said about Oprah's story. So we would figure out the rest. We wouldn't know which sisters were victims and everyone would most likely assume four oldest ones, but still. They would receive questions and comments and everything. 
So badly redacted report is bad, but Duggars were screwed no matter what. And they started rumors themselves by letting people in their church to know about abuse (didn't they make Josh to admit it publicly?). 

Except that, iirc, Alice mentioned that "the oldest daughter wasn't touched", so we could deduce from that. Still, the Washington County report was not heavily redacted by a long shot, and the other reports left shapes of names and other info identifying that it was children in the home who were victims. I don't know if they'll win or not, but I think they definitely have a case.

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7 hours ago, Taylurker said:

Except that, iirc, Alice mentioned that "the oldest daughter wasn't touched", so we could deduce from that. Still, the Washington County report was not heavily redacted by a long shot, and the other reports left shapes of names and other info identifying that it was children in the home who were victims. I don't know if they'll win or not, but I think they definitely have a case.

A case perhaps, but unlikely a payday.  InTouch will argue they followed the law in requesting the records, and that once they were released they were considered public records.  Those can't be "private facts" for media defendants, and while the lawsuit seems to suggest the later orders by a juvenile judge were binding gag orders against InTouch, the fact the law had to be clarified to keep records of offenses that were committed by a juvenile but reported when the defendant was an adult weren't subject to FOIA that could actually work against the Duggars on the tort counts against the municipalities.

That leaves Constitutional claims, which aren't against InTouch. And it's unlikely that the municipalities have liability insurance that covers mental anguish.  They have it for, say, an ambulance crashing and killing a civilian, but that's vehicle policies, etc.  The law says municipalities are immune from tort liability beyond their liability insurance.  They're hoping for a payday from InTouch, but I think the case law is in the media's favor.  

Also, I saw something quite interesting.  The complaint says clearly their attorney is alleging that the trauma they had to relive was the sexual assault, but the 2006 investigation into it!  

Quote

11.  As  a  direct  and  proximate  result  of Defendants'  misconduct,  Plaintiffs  endured  harsh and  unwarranted  public  scrutiny.  Defendants'  actions  forced  Plaintiffs  to  relive  painful  memories and  experiences  that  occurred  almost  ten  years  prior,  resulting  in  Plaintiffs  suffering  severe  mental anguish  and  distress.  Plaintiffs  were  also  subject  to  the  humiliation  and  extreme  mental  anguish of being  publicly  identified  nation  and  world-wide  as  being  victims  of sexual  abuse  as  minors  and having  the  details  of the  most  private  and  painful  aspects  of their  lives  released  and  published  to friends,  associates,  and  tens  of millions  of people  throughout  the  United  States  and  world. 

So again, denial that the abuse was damaging or painful.  Only the investigation and public knowledge and scrutiny.  

I really do feel for kids who are put on reality TV as children and can't consent to becoming public figures.  Not to sound like a Republican here, but even in the adult kids the TLC welfare for this family has made them dependent on it to manage the lifestyle they obviously couldn't manage before it.  I'm glad they aren't squeezed into inadequate housing that violated codes anymore -- but that was completed during the mini-documentaries, which I suspect they had more control over.

The show did a lot of damage I think.  For one, it made them accept suitors for their daughters who saw marriage as a payday -- enough to quit good jobs and live off the show.  I suspect Jinger and Jeremy are probably the ones coming out best insofar as being capable of taking care of themselves without TLC money, as Jeremy hasn't given up his day job and probably paid for a lot of the wedding, plus isn't wanting to live on family property.

But the cult Gothard built created a distrust of outsiders and a persecution complex -- making the investigation, not the abuse, the trauma.  Making the investigators and the media the villains, instead of their brother himself, their parents for ignoring earlier events, their "church elders" for failing to report and get them real help when they needed it, and the pride and greed that made those in authority over them still go forward with the TLC show in 2007.

If anything, if they want real change they should argue for legislation.  Like their parents did to protect people like their abuser.  But I think it should be legislation to make it illegal to cart your family on TV and make their real childhood other people's entertainment.  Doubt they agree.

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I stumbled upon this last night on youtube.  How did we not drag this up when the scandals broke.    Besides listening to self rightous Smuggar, check out WTF Daddy Keller says, "Dating is training for Divorce".  A-hole.  At this point he knew what Josh did.  Anna admits in this clip that she didn't know about sex until her mom told her in preparation for the wedding.  So, she clearly didn't really couldn't have known/understood what Josh did.  This bolsters my belief that the Duggars glossed over in euphemisms what Josh did when they told the Kellers.   And seeing how GaGa happy Anna is to be with Josh makes me heart sick.  Sheltered girl sacrificed at the alter of patriarchy.  This is nearly as bad as Katie Morton.  Anna at least decided on her own to say yes to the proposal and had a longer courtship.  Not that it helped.  At the end I want to throw something at the screen, " This way the guy has to be accountable to the dad.  And he better tow the line."  Followed by Pa Kellers "Amen" with a big goofy smile.  Disgusting.  

 

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4 hours ago, JMO said:

 check out WTF Daddy Keller says, "Dating is training for Divorce".  A-hole.  At this point he knew what Josh did.

Ugh. Daddy Keller is even worse than JB or Joshley. 

Edited by Coconut Flan
Snipping quote.
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PACER is an online database of federal court records. It stands for public access to court records or something like that. 

I'm a lawyer, so I have an account through my work. I would imagine anyone can get one since  you could get the same information by going to the courthouse,  but I don't know how it works.  

And before anyone asks me to pull stuff up re the Duggars, we have an organizational account.  PACER charges after a certain amount of usage (just like you'd pay for copies at the courthouse), and I do not want to have to explain my fundie obsession to our general counsel when he gets the bill. 

Edited by VanillaBean
Typo
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@JMOWouldn't surprise me if Pa Keller fully understood what Josh did and sold her off anyways. He's fucking creepy.

Both Anna and Smuggar were just so young in so many ways. Anna especially. What's really sad is that they both looked so hopeful in that clip. Josh Duggar (is a Douche) really honestly seemed to believe this marriage would solve everything and fulfill him. That's disgustingly sad because it was pretty much just like putting a band aid on a gaping wound.

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8 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

. Josh Duggar (is a Douche) really honestly seemed to believe this marriage would solve everything and fulfill him. That's disgustingly sad because it was pretty much just like putting a band aid on a gaping wound.

I'm in the "there wasn't full disclosure to her, but she wouldn't have understood it anyway and would have gone ahead with the marriage" group.

HE may have thought the marriage would "solve everything", but I think he mainly saw it as a "do over". His sins were washed by the blood of the Lamb, after all.. and he was free of them by then, according to his   cult. He may have started the marriage with the hopes that she would be his be all and end all sexually, but it's pretty clear he got JB's enormous sex drive and sex interest.  Poor Anna.

 

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Let's say you had an average upbringing, then you found out your spouse had molested his sisters. The world knows, he's in disgrace and loses his cushy job. Back to his home town. As you're trying to get over that, another scandal hits and you find out that your spouse is addicted to porn and has been unfaithful. That would be overwhelming for anyone. Now imagine you're Anna with no prior knowledge of sex...how does she get out of bed every morning? This is a fucked up situation. I wonder if she'll ever feel OK again.

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51 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

. Now imagine you're Anna with no prior knowledge of sex...how does she get out of bed every morning? This is a fucked up situation. I wonder if she'll ever feel OK again.

Except she's probably clinging to Satan building a fortress in his heart. And that Jesus jail helped to make him whole again. Not that she couldn't still be overwhelmed and have doubts, but not having to deal with the idea that her husband has done unforgivable things because he's a ducked up human and she's trapped probably helps. That and she's supposed to forgive and forget,  because Jesus/ she's his helpmeet/divorce is for heathens that give away pieces of their hearts. I hope one of the Duggars learned some critical thinking skills because of this.  Only time will tell. 

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6 hours ago, moriah said:

 

That leaves Constitutional claims, which aren't against InTouch. And it's unlikely that the municipalities have liability insurance that covers mental anguish.  They have it for, say, an ambulance crashing and killing a civilian, but that's vehicle policies, etc.  The law says municipalities are immune from tort liability beyond their liability insurance.  They're hoping for a payday from InTouch, but I think the case law is in the media's favor.  

 

Good find on the Arkansas law regarding tort liability. It won't work to protect them against the constitional claim but should eliminate the tort claim.

They still have the claim of outrage against in touch the case law you found would apply to the invasion of privacy claims but not the outrage claim. Although again I am skeptical a public figure can ever win an outrage claim with the rulings the Supreme Court had given on such claims.

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